ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Urgent! Need staff Out-Quals policies.

Discussion in 'Important documents' started by renegade, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

    In theory that sounds like it could be a winner. But do you really want to swap servitude to the cult for servitude to the IRS?


    Too bad that the cult no longer offloads suicide attempts. Sorta makes faking one pointless, even if you can do it in a low-risk way.
  2. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Of COURSE they will make the routing form last forever if they are getting work out of the person!

    The key is to just STOP doing anything that will raise the org's stats. If they want you to come in, and you feel like coming in, bring a book and read. Do not do mest work. If they demand you do mest work, just cheerfully reply "No thank you" like you're turning down a second helping of dessert, and go back to your book. When you show up, just ask, "Is anything happening on my cycle tonight?", and if they say "not right now, how about you write some letters?", just say "No thank you, I guess I'll go home now". Whatever they ask, just say "No thank you" with a smile on your face.

    They only have the level of power over you THAT YOU GRANT THEM. When they make a demand of you, just treat them like panhandlers on the street.

    While I don't guarantee it will not get your friend declared, the one thing that the org cannot afford is allowing somebody to get away with being cheerfully defiant. It might give other staff ideas.

    I don't know what your location is. If it's in the US, you might have your friend look up whether his state has a "stand your ground" law. If it does, and any attempt is made to physically illegally detain him, he can just say "I'm sorry, but I'm not interested in staying. If you attempt to illegally stop me from leaving, I will consider it that you are attempting to kidnap me, and I will be legally allowed to use whatever force needed to regain my freedom, even killing you".
  3. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    This can be faked. Merely mention the IRS and watch the coinciding "duck and cover". It's conditioned into staff.

    I wouldn't advocate creating a real IRS sit.
  4. clamicide

    clamicide Gold Meritorious Patron

    I don't know about this... seemed like half the staff owed major bucks to the IRS and nobody cared.
  5. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

    Maybe s/he could get an IRS lien letter from teh interwebz and shoop his/her name and personal info on it. For teh lulz. I can haz offload nao?
  6. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    Worth a try!

    I'd even suggest going so far as to contact someone in the IRS and get some letterhead and envelope!
  7. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    No, not automatically. But the "Leaving and Leaves" PL says the staff member shouldn't tell anyone about being on a Leaving Staff Routing Form except the HAS and Chaplain, and if you violate that you can be declared. So telling your spouse that you are thinking of leaving makes you declare bait.

  8. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased


    We disagree for the first time, my friend!

    I've seen many the staff member routed out for said offense and heard of many, many more.

    This is personal knowledge as I was often consulted on how to handle the sit.

    Remember, merely mentioning the sit should be good enough but if this were to "flap" with a letter or something?

    Sayonara staff contract! This is a 10 foot pole every time I've seen it.
  9. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

    Heh, just google "IRS Letterhead"

    This turned out to be my personal favorite:
  10. clamicide

    clamicide Gold Meritorious Patron

    It's not that I disagree per se: this is just what I experienced. Personally married to one such instance. Had IRS agent show up on doorstep that freaked me the hell out. Owed something like tens of thousands, might even have been 100 K with penalties. It was up to him to not make it flap--he could moonlight, but not get out of contract. They wrote up some bs handle for the sit; I'd seen it before.

    He was later even an OOT trainee at Flag where he wound up even more in debt, getting his car repossessed and all sorts of BS. Well, he's back with a day job, but he's still on staff.
  11. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    WOW! Standard tech, indeed. I can only say that my neck of the woods would react very, very differently.

    Was this before or after the IRS win and official religion recognition?
  12. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    I think part of the deal with the IRS was that Scn was supposed to have its members pay their taxes.
  13. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Expanding on what I said earlier, as an example Florida defines kidnapping as:
    Physically restraining a person from leaving the org, for the purpose of not allowing him to leave until he has paid an amount of money (or under duress signing an agreement to pay a "freeloader's debt") would arguably constitute kidnapping under the above definition, and would constitute a first-degree felony, punishable by at least a year, and up to life in prison.

    As kidnapping is defined as a forcible felony under Florida statute 776.08, which means that it is covered under 776.012:
  14. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    I do too and all of the severe reactions have occurred after this agreement deal... an OSA rudiment, perhaps?
  15. renegade

    renegade Silver Meritorious Patron

    Either that or it was instituted to fool the public to donate towards buildings and ias coffers. Because they are no longer eligible for bridge services until this is handled, the money can now go towards the criminal exchange projects.

    Putting money onto services, puts the org at risk of potential refunds or repayments. Plus it stops future reg cycles when public have a lot on account.

    When public are asked to debit their accounts for donations to libraries and other such criminal exchange projects, this relieves some of that liability for the org. i.e., money gone off account = org no longer owes that public anything. Ask any D/ED for delivery and exchange and you will see how bad the push from management was to get public to use up their accounts and get it to zero.

    This way, dm still gets the publics cash at criminal exchange because of his new IRS "policy" and public get zilch, nada!
  16. clamicide

    clamicide Gold Meritorious Patron

    The initial thing with the ex was before the IRS win. There were others in the same boat who got the same bad advice from a Scio accountant who had initially wound them all up in hot water. Back then, it was all 'confront and shatter the suppression'.

    After the win, it was all 'well, we conquered that, so not so much to worry about'. I knew lots of staff with lots of debt. It was definitely known up-lines, but always pushed back down to handle at a local level, and don't you dare lose the staff member (I was in a high-profile org at the time and had a horrible habit of looking through despatches in the comm center and telexes on desks--also staff member pc files when I was looking for people to audit to get through my internships).

    Crikey... what a nightmare.
  17. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Go to the examiner and "originate" :

    " I am thinking about ending it all because I am having trouble holding back on my homosexual drive "

    That's a one sentence rocket shot out of any org !

    If a guy, you could just wear a dress in for work.

    Or, randomly, in reception ask in a loud voice " Do you know Xenu"?....even if you are really talking to an imaginary "friend".

    If none of the above are working then start doing a one person strip show to any tune you care to sing.

    You gonna be sooooooooooooo gone from there !
  18. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    The text of the IRS agreement includes the following clause:
    While it may be debatable whether an individual Scientologist would be considered a "Scientology-related entity", a strong argument could be made that a company which was a member of WISE was a "Scientology-related entity".
  19. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

    That's a thought. I used to do the crazy act on the BART - nervous tick and talking to myself. That was one highly effective way to travel through Oakland in relative safety.
  20. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    I tend to prefer sitting perfectly still while wearing a hockey mask.