What is trolling?
- Thread starter Emma
- Start date
AryaZ
Seeking truth and retribution
Thanks for the welcome and the pointers.Hi @AryaZ. I'm sorry your first ride has been a little bumpy. I'm afraid you've walked into a battlezone without knowing it. Your example of being fried by Marty is the reason I want all questions to be able to be asked on ESMB. There are no sacred cows here. I'm the head honcho but I'm not selling anything, not promoting anything, not trying to make a living out of Scientology criticism, no YouTube channel to promote, no position to defend, no allegiances to keep. I guess that makes me friendless in some ways which means I don't answer to anyone.
You can ask all the questions you like. No one will stop you. If you get criticised for asking legit questions then you might be looking at a few different things:
1. You are new and haven't passed the smell test yet.
2. You are asking a question that people don't like being asked.
3. You are perceived as being a troll if you fall under one of the 20 (something) definitions of a troll, which upon inspection seem to be describing anyone who who does anything to disrupt the thought flow.
Anyway I know it's a little late but welcome to ESMB.
I kind of expected that my intentions would be suspected (understandably). It's really nothing new. It has happened on nearly every forum /blog/group I've dared to speak or tell my story on starting with Marty's blog.
Actually, now that I think about it, I've been getting hit ever since daring to use the internet as a method of communication regarding the COS.
Without getting into the entire long story, my family and I were all declared and fair gamed because I didn't disconnect from declared SP's on Facebook and I was discovered by OSA after commenting on 1 negative online news article.
However, I find it ironic that many members of groups and forums continue to behave similarly ( to when they were in the church) against anyone who has an opinion that doesn't match their own, eg., banning, shunning, shaming, bullying or fair gaming.
I think LRH got it wrong when he said (paraphrased) the only thing a being can get in trouble for is: "Being there and communicating"
It should have been, "being there and communicating about Scientology"
P.S. I do admire and appreciate you for all your years of work on ESMB. I can only imagine what a headache it must be. I also admire your resolve and candidness of late, regarding not being beholding to anyone.
Last edited:
exbritscino
Patron with Honors
Yes please Em!!!
tesseract
Patron with Horrors
He-man
Hero extraordinary
Not sure where to put this, I started writing it in response to Alanzo on his latest thread but thought it is more fitting here since it is very much related to trolling and peoples thought on that.
I don't want to make a thread based on "what I think is good form in writing" or "This is what helped me" either since I feel it isn't much to respond to.
Telling it how it is rather then telling me how to think.
The first critical thing I was exposed to when I started searching on the internet was OCMB, ESMB and Torys youtube channel. The first actual video I think I looked at as I was hiding away in my room was the OT panel, followed by a whoooole bunch of videos made by Tory. I was gobsmacked. Telling it how it was, what had happened to them. Tory in particular and her stories of Scientology mafiadom floored me. Wow, for lack of a better word for it at the time I felt completely keyed out. Unbelievable. This made me look further and deeper down the rabbit hole I went. Ex Scientology kids, the personal stories over here and on OCMB. Again. Totally unbelievable.
Seeing people discussing the "tech" with a critical eye, once again, it was unreal and so frikken refreshing. The only time I felt that it was hostile was over on OCMB were the ridicule felt too strong. I don't mind the ridicule anymore, but to see people who had never even been part of Scientology laugh at it felt wrong at the time. I felt like they were laughing at me, personally.
The people who really influenced me in the past all had one thing in common, rather then focusing on telling me what to think they would share their experiences, tell me what had happened and give me their opinion on it. No one had any positive opinions, that was really clear to me, people could have varying views on the "tech" but that seemed to be something minor in the big scheme of things. Torys videos definitively had the biggest impact on me and I think I got a wee bit of a crush on her back in 2008/2009. she'd sit there saying things like "It's not OK!" and "It's gonna bite you back David!" and I'd sit there just feeling very emotional about it all. Teared up and ready to shout with her. "It's not OK goddammit!" She always had a very strong opinion and I loved it. Same with the peeps posting over here. Strong opinions.
I really think I learnt from the best crowd.
What does this have to do with trolling?
I think that when a person starts a thread with the approach that "I'm going to explain to you why your thinking isn't working for me and how you can do it better" - It upsets people. It is perceived as trolling. EVERYONES alarm bells starts ringing that, there now, we've got one of dem fekkers that thinks he/she can tell me how to think! Not today! Today is not the day!
The explosion multiplies when good form is ignored.
Hostility ensues. The shit literally flies all the way up to the attic. The kittens fly out the window.
So I suppose it is never a good idea to set a narrative, tell people what to think or how to think, and most importantly, ignore good form.
Then again, isn't that what has taken the western civilization so far already, the actual cultural disagreements? The discourse? Is it not always a good idea to challenge our values? Redefine language? If we didn't I still think women would be toiling in the kitchens and going to the beach would be a downer for shure.
I always felt calling someone a troll, or calling out someone for trolling to be as bad as actual trolling.
At the same time, the thought that I would've joined a new set of cult values - completely disagrees with me. I do however like the fact that I'm being challenged. I just hope I'm able to sustain through the discourse until I feel the satisfaction I so want. One of my flaws of character.
I wish that on the internet, calling someone a troll would be consider as bad as slut shaming someone for wearing a mini skirt. I'm never gonna like being challenged, but I hope to god I'll never troll shame someone again for doing so.
I don't want to make a thread based on "what I think is good form in writing" or "This is what helped me" either since I feel it isn't much to respond to.
Telling it how it is rather then telling me how to think.
The first critical thing I was exposed to when I started searching on the internet was OCMB, ESMB and Torys youtube channel. The first actual video I think I looked at as I was hiding away in my room was the OT panel, followed by a whoooole bunch of videos made by Tory. I was gobsmacked. Telling it how it was, what had happened to them. Tory in particular and her stories of Scientology mafiadom floored me. Wow, for lack of a better word for it at the time I felt completely keyed out. Unbelievable. This made me look further and deeper down the rabbit hole I went. Ex Scientology kids, the personal stories over here and on OCMB. Again. Totally unbelievable.
Seeing people discussing the "tech" with a critical eye, once again, it was unreal and so frikken refreshing. The only time I felt that it was hostile was over on OCMB were the ridicule felt too strong. I don't mind the ridicule anymore, but to see people who had never even been part of Scientology laugh at it felt wrong at the time. I felt like they were laughing at me, personally.
The people who really influenced me in the past all had one thing in common, rather then focusing on telling me what to think they would share their experiences, tell me what had happened and give me their opinion on it. No one had any positive opinions, that was really clear to me, people could have varying views on the "tech" but that seemed to be something minor in the big scheme of things. Torys videos definitively had the biggest impact on me and I think I got a wee bit of a crush on her back in 2008/2009. she'd sit there saying things like "It's not OK!" and "It's gonna bite you back David!" and I'd sit there just feeling very emotional about it all. Teared up and ready to shout with her. "It's not OK goddammit!" She always had a very strong opinion and I loved it. Same with the peeps posting over here. Strong opinions.
I really think I learnt from the best crowd.
What does this have to do with trolling?
I think that when a person starts a thread with the approach that "I'm going to explain to you why your thinking isn't working for me and how you can do it better" - It upsets people. It is perceived as trolling. EVERYONES alarm bells starts ringing that, there now, we've got one of dem fekkers that thinks he/she can tell me how to think! Not today! Today is not the day!
The explosion multiplies when good form is ignored.
Hostility ensues. The shit literally flies all the way up to the attic. The kittens fly out the window.
So I suppose it is never a good idea to set a narrative, tell people what to think or how to think, and most importantly, ignore good form.
Then again, isn't that what has taken the western civilization so far already, the actual cultural disagreements? The discourse? Is it not always a good idea to challenge our values? Redefine language? If we didn't I still think women would be toiling in the kitchens and going to the beach would be a downer for shure.
I always felt calling someone a troll, or calling out someone for trolling to be as bad as actual trolling.
At the same time, the thought that I would've joined a new set of cult values - completely disagrees with me. I do however like the fact that I'm being challenged. I just hope I'm able to sustain through the discourse until I feel the satisfaction I so want. One of my flaws of character.
I wish that on the internet, calling someone a troll would be consider as bad as slut shaming someone for wearing a mini skirt. I'm never gonna like being challenged, but I hope to god I'll never troll shame someone again for doing so.
EZ Linus
Cleared Tomato
I guess I'm as bad as an actual troll then (since I've called clay and now Alanzo one), because I think someone who posts on every single thread obsessively only to create conflict between themselves and practically every other member of the forum and making disruptions to the point where members don't want to post anymore in fear of coming against said conflicts (no matter what their views on anything might be), could definitely be considered a troll despite what their views or contributions might be.
Free Being Me
Crusader
This is the definition of a $cio-troll:
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
Well, it takes two to tango. Maybe anyone who's getting upset by conflict with Alanzo should put him on Ignore. Alternatively, HTFU.
Paul
PirateAndBum
Gold Meritorious Patron
Alanzo, as much as he would like to consider himself a voice of reason and a savior to exes, robes himself with the cloak of an OSA agent provocateur.
The duck is quacking rather loudly.
Exposing the abuses of co$ is important work. When you attack those that are doing that work, you are not helping.
Alan, do you want to see the end of the co$, or is it that you want to see people put in jail? Do you want co$ tax exemption revoked?
Seems you will only be satisfied with criminal prosecutions. That is a short-sighted target. What effect did the conviction of the scn 11 back in 79/80 have on the scam?
programmer_guy
True Ex-Scientologist
Also,
if a protestant Scientologist posts a video of themselves they could hold a Troll Doll in front of them for the entire video.
if a protestant Scientologist posts a video of themselves they could hold a Troll Doll in front of them for the entire video.
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