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What Mike Rinder Thinks About Scientology, November 2013

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by TG1, Nov 27, 2013.

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  1. TG1

    TG1 Angelic Poster

    Mike Rinder was interviewed in an article a few days ago at

    It's not that long an article, but is the clearest expression in one place I've seen yet of Rinder's take on Scientology. Given what he's written and said in the past, it's clear he's continuing to go through changes.

    I'd love to post the whole thing here, but will respect the original source. Here are a few excerpts:

    SWEPT: I’m curious, I know that you have said, since leaving the church, that Scientology is a valuable way to work through life, so are you still a believer in Scientology even though you’re no longer a church member?

    MIKE: I would classify myself as someone who practices principles of the philosophy of Scientology that I find workable and true. I do not consider myself a Scientology “believer” I think that word implies faith and acceptance of anything and everything merely because it is “part of Scientology.”

    * * *

    SWEPT: Is the notion of Xenu, and dead alien souls sent to Earth a part of the teachings of Scientology? If so, is this a faith position or is this a claim on some suggested scientific basis? Is this a belief that you hold to?

    MIKE: Yes, it is (part of the teachings). And yes, it is a faith position. Good Scientologists will tell you it is not faith – it is fact and provable by their subjective experiences with auditing and an e-meter. But that is not scientific evidence, it is anecdotal.

    * * *

    SWEPT: Is there anything you would like to say to the readers of this magazine, and to any Scientologists who may come across this?

    MIKE: Really, the most important thing is to think for yourself. Don’t accept things because you are told they are true or are necessary. If you see something that is abusive or wrong, you KNOW. Don’t let things be “explained away”. The church of Scientology has no monopoly on wisdom – it doesn’t even have a monopoly on Scientology. If there is something you find good and workable about it, use it. If not, forget it.
  2. thewritegoddess

    thewritegoddess Patron with Honors

    Watching Mike Rinder's gradual emancipation from Scientological thought is actually an amazing relief. Remember when he was SCARY Scientologist, someone a critic might be hunted down and hounded by?

    It's nice to see he's an actual human being. He's smart and witty as well, and his blog has been a fantastic resource. I think he's pretty much dumped Scientology and LRH, but can't say so in his position as an ex-member who wants to assist other exes.
  3. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I think he's just stated what his opinion is.

    "MIKE: Really, the most important thing is to think for yourself. Don’t accept things because you are told they are true or are necessary. If you see something that is abusive or wrong, you KNOW. Don’t let things be “explained away”. The church of Scientology has no monopoly on wisdom – it doesn’t even have a monopoly on Scientology. If there is something you find good and workable about it, use it. If not, forget it. "

    There are plenty of exes here who wish to assist other exes. Most havn't found dumping Scn and LRH a problem with that.:coolwink:
  4. Axiom142

    Axiom142 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Interesting – but not unexpected.

    This is something that I realised pretty soon after leaving the cult:

    Once away from the malign and controlling environment, people will start to really look at what Scientology is. They will do so at their own pace, but it will happen. The chains that had bound them will start to dissolve. It is usually one-way, but sometimes they get scared and try to go back. There is no going back, not really. The truth will catch up with them. If they embrace this truth, they will grow stronger and be able to face more of it as time goes by.

    The lies that were created by Scientology cannot survive for long under the harsh glare of the spotlight of honest discovery.

    This is why I was never of the school that said anyone should immediately repudiate everything to do with Scientology immediately or else be damned!

    Sometimes little steps are best.

  5. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

  6. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    I love the fact that Mike now openly admits to the Xenu-murdered-aliens scripture. And, that he says it is "anecdotal".

    I guess he is being judiciously diplomatic in not "invalidating" the religious beliefs of Scientologists and Indies. I would like to think that such an intelligent and witty man would be thinking, in his own mind: "LOL. Ridiculous!"

    Re-Posted from the thread: "Scientology Books I would read":

    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
  7. Lord Xenu

    Lord Xenu Patron Meritorious

    I think that any thought, action or saying by Rathbun or Rinder should be viewed with utter contempt. These two are just as untrustworthy as they ever were, it's like listening to a mass murderer justifying themselves. They are clearly unashamed liars who could actually expose a lot of the covert behaviour of the COS but choose not to in order to protect themselves. No doubt some of you will say that I'm over simplifying, but I fail to understand how these two criminals have found sympathy in the community of exes. Watch Rinder being interviewed, he is upset at being ousted by COB and talks like a spurned lover trying to get revenge - and apart from that he's got the face of someone who's just been caught wanking.
  8. TG1

    TG1 Angelic Poster

    Because you asked ....

    I think that that some (not all) exes find Rinder and Rathbun sympathetic because exes know better than anyone else how far the Scientology mind-fuck goes and how someone who isn't natively an asshole can wind up acting like one due to the mind-fuck.

    As an ex who's anonymous, I appreciate the fact that R&R have committed so
    much of their lives and energies over the past 5+ years to exposing what they were part of and helped to create. That helps.

  9. Axiom142

    Axiom142 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Seriously, every thought?

    Quite how we are supposed to know what they are thinking, let alone view it with contempt is beyond my level of superpowerz I’m afraid.

    Actually, both of them have spent considerable time and effort exposing the covert behaviour of the CoS over the past few years, not to mention ridicule and expose the rest of the behaviour of the CoS. Or have you never bothered to read their blogs, Marty’s books or watched their many TV appearances? Have you forgotten the assistance they have provided in law suits against the cult?

    What specifically would you like them to do, that they haven’t already done?

    It almost sounds as though you are saying that once someone has done something wrong, they can never, ever redeem themselves. Rinder was never ‘ousted’ by Miscavige. He was beaten and abused and he grow a pair and GTFO’d unlike many of the so-called ‘OT senior management’ who continue to cower under Miscavige’s malign influence and are too scared to leave even though they know Scientology is completely fucked up.

    Have you even met either of these two and talked to them, face to face? Or are you basing your statements on what you think you know based on 3rd-hand accounts?

    When I learned how they had participated in the fraud perpetrated upon me and many others, I was angry with both of them. But, they have acknowledged that they did wrong and are attempting to make amends for it. Perhaps they aren’t going as far as some might like, but they are doing a helluva lot more than the vast majority of ‘exes’ in exposing the cult for what it is.

  10. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Right on and well stated Ax. And I too have spoken to them both.
  11. Axiom142

    Axiom142 Gold Meritorious Patron

    On reflection, I thought I should clarify this part of my earlier post.

    This is not meant as a criticism of ‘exes’. The vast majority of Scientologists who leave the cult have done so quietly and never talk publicly about their experiences.

    And that is perfectly OK with me. I totally understand why most people would want to never have anything more to do with it.

    If every member of the cult who had severe doubts about their participation, just quietly left one day and never looked back or spoke about the subject ever again, I would be very happy. The cult would collapse overnight.

    But of course that will never happen. Most of those still left are trapped. Traps of their own making perhaps, but trapped nonetheless. The only chance they have is if enough exes speak out and manage to get through to them long enough so that they too can find a way out.

    Everyone who raises their voice against the cult is doing something to help bring it down. Some are doing more than others, but we all count.

  12. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

    He took over the halfwayhouse from Marty and does some excellent trolling of the CO$

    He may think he still believes in Hubbard but his heart has checked out and allready joined the normal world but forgot to tell his brain.
  13. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    I do view their past actions while they were with the CoS with contempt, but I could say the same for MY own past actions as well, when I was in the cult.

    What I see now though is that they are both are working to expose the fraud, abuses, and criminality of the CoS, as well as helping others in the various lawsuits that are playing out.

    I'm pretty much withholding judgement on either of them, at least until I see how things play out in the years to come, so I can see the roles that they play in bringing the CoS to justice (or not).

    For the moment though they're both scoring some points in my book. Lots of them.

    They (and many others) have spoken to the FBI, have helped out with some epic media reports such as the Truth Rundown, they're involved in litigation which is potentially capable of inflicting severe damage to the cult.

    As Ax asked, what would you have them do that they're not presently doing?
  14. Deeana

    Deeana Patron with Honors

    Re: What about Rinder, Rathbun, and JB speaking with FBI?

    Wonder what the FBI was investigating at the time? Anyone have any idea? Whatever it was, apparently nothing ever came of it, since so much time has passed since then.

    Anybody here know what the parameters are for the FBI to allot man-hours to "conducting an investigation"?

    Crimes FBI can investigate: Bank robbery, kidnapping, domestic plot to overthrow government (but this may have passed over to Homeland Security), crimes against federal facilities and organizations, crimes that take place on federal property(?)
  15. TG1

    TG1 Angelic Poster

    Re: What about Rinder, Rathbun, and JB speaking with FBI?

    Google is your friend.
  16. Lord Xenu

    Lord Xenu Patron Meritorious

    My personal knowledge is greater of Rinder than Rathbun and I realise that some of you think he is redeeming himself. Personally I think he just oozes slime and untrustworthiness, I don’t believe a word he says and I certainly would not buy a used car from him.

    If they are exposing all the frauds of the COS and talking to the FBI and various other agencies then where are the arrests? My guess (yes it is a guess) would be that both of them were close enough or directly involved in many other highly illegal covert ops.

    In one of the interviews with Rinder where he talks about how he was treated by COB he seems upset at his treatment as I pointed out previously, as if he was a lover that had been rejected. If DM had treated him well and he was still in the upper echelons, would he have become a critic? He just seems concerned with himself and his own position. He ‘grew a pair’ because he had no choice in that situation.

    And what would I have them do that they are not presently doing?

    I would have them detail more of the covert ops, describe particular operations and the impact they had on the victims,how they were carried out and the lengths that the OSA and GO went to in order to disrupt the lives of the people they targeted. I know that some of that has been done but as pointed out, I don’t believe that they have gone anywhere near far enough.

    I really don’t know how they could make amends with anyone whose personal reputations and family relationships they have destroyed.

    In a particular case that I am aware of it took a long time for the victim [of the OSA] to actually realise what was going on; for a long time it didn’t occur to them that people were actually plotting to destroy their business and personal integrity. For somebody living through this and getting to the point where they have to accept it is a real eye opener into the sinister side of human nature. And yes, I do find it unforgivable.

    However ‘mind fucked’ someone is in Scientology I believe there is only a thin veil between that and acknowledging what a pile of crap it is. I do believe (yes very unsympathetically) that people remain willfully ignorant when they are ‘on lines’.
    No, Ax I haven’t met either R or R but if I had the chance to there are certainly some questions that I would like answered. I do think I am on the same side as you, I am just less forgiving and probably less informed.

    There was a time where I had to ‘grow a pair’ too in order to deal with personal losses caused by COS which are not likely to be resolved and which continue to have an impact on my life.