ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

What's up with all the Ideal Orgs?

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by FlunkedForLaughing, Jun 21, 2008.

  1. byte301

    byte301 Crusader

    I heard they start asking the public for donations all over again to do the renos! Can you imagine? They buy the building with the public's money, then they have to pay DM rent on a building that's paid for, then they beg for more money to renovate it and furnish it! Then they wonder why people are blowing. LOL:D
  2. Gypsy2112

    Gypsy2112 Patron

    I know that when San Francisco got their building they regged all the donos to buy it, then bought it, mortgaged it and got to work getting donations for renovations...and of course the GI to pay the mortgage on the building we'd was something like $10,000 a month if I recall correctly.
  3. Nurse Pinch

    Nurse Pinch Patron with Honors

    It still blows me away, that even after an org "owns" its building, it still has to pay rent to the Int Landlord!
    Do the public who are donating their life savings to this crap realise that the org still has to pay rent?!?
    I guess from DM's point of view, it is a great new income stream to be able to divert all that money the orgs were spending on rent to wog landlords into his own pocketses.
  4. myrklix

    myrklix Patron with Honors

    Well, as far as Boston goes, they have owned a beautiful building overlooking the river in the Back Bay neighborhood for years (decades). I can't imagine they haven't owned it outright for a long time. Furthermore, over the past decade or more they put a lot of blood, sweat & tears (sweat equity & $$$) into renovating much of it to its earlier glory -- it's a brownstone building probably 100 years old as is much of the neighborhood. After not stepping in the place for almost 15 years I could see how much work they had done on renovations. (I recently had to go there a few times earlier this year to "end cycle".) And the size of the building certainly was having no problem handling the quantity of public coming (flooding :hysterical: ) through the front door for various services -- the sign-in sheet never looked more than 10-15 any time I looked at it!

    So recently they bought this mostly vacant, old, dilapidated, formerly grand hotel several blocks away in a recently gentrified neighborhood. It cost a bundle which, of course, was funded by local public. Well, it'll cost a bundle and a half to get it to the "ideal org" scene.

    For more info on Boston's Ideal Org here's the posting from OCMB:
    Boston org's Ideal Org website

    If you click on virtual tour and then click on the
    picture, it takes you to a 125 page pdf with info
    on the org and a lot of pictures of Scios that are
    still on lines there.

    So why are some orgs selling buildings they already own to get their "Ideal Org"?! Hmmmm... Seems like I've read the answer to that plenty of times already on the various threads here.

    Anyway, just thought I'd throw in my 2-cents and give some insight from up here in the Northeast -- go Red Sox!
  5. thetanic

    thetanic Gold Meritorious Patron

    Wow. Really?

    Some orgs actually owned their buildings free and clear. Back in the day, I know some missions did as well. Then 1982 happened, and all the mission savings (and sometimes more than that) were raided. (Okay, I only have details on a few mission's finances, but one can extrapolate from there.)

    So now they're being pressured to buy "ideal orgs" that are more historic buildings, spend a ton of money on renos (when no org has good cash reserves right now) and then commit to a huge amount in rent to int?

    What fuckwad thought that up?

    It was hard enough being solvent before all the demand for money, but now they're going to put in a huge expense that has nothing to do with providing paper for sessions, pens for auditors and course sups, color flash for everyone (as if there was enough money for that), TOILET PAPER, but there's enough money for millions in renos?

    Fuck that shit.

    I've been on Ad Council. I've talked to FBOs from other orgs. I know how hard it was for orgs even when they didn't have huge mortgages or rent.

    Now I'm pissed off.
  6. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron

    It' gets better. I got a report the other day that one org (can't say which) took more than 4 years to get enough donations to buy their building and now they have orders to get enough money for renos in the next 5 months.:omg: Good Fing luck! The public is funding everything.

    I'm wondering if Flag is making all the furniture for all these "ideal orgs"??
  7. Amadeus Einstein

    Amadeus Einstein Patron with Honors

    HCO PL Keeping Scientology Working Series 2, "Quality Counts". Specifically, the bit about not trying to PR your way into public approval comes to mind.

    London org lost its soul when various S.O. would turn up to do this or that inspection, demanding this or that was made "upstat".

    The final nail in the coffin was when various members of the E.G. field were regged to come and take over the Day org. The handful of old guard Londoners who'd been keeping the thing going on a shoestring for years were demoted and musical chaired while the New Regime was put in place.

    I'm sure the public would have preferred that there were tech people on post to deliver to them, operational tape players and films, and paper in the washrooms.
  8. Boldgirl

    Boldgirl Patron Meritorious

    Yes they reno money--no ideal org opens......
  9. Boldgirl

    Boldgirl Patron Meritorious

    No they do not know this---they have no idea--(the public scn's that is)
  10. EP - Ethics Particle

    EP - Ethics Particle Gold Meritorious Patron

    Attrition of public...

    Does anyone have any real notion re how many "public" are simply "drifting off", staying away, avoiding phone calls, making excuses and that sort of thing?

    My sense of it based on looking at the various vids and reading posts coupled with my own personal scene leads me to believe that the rank and file "public" are staying away in droves.

    Only the "true believers" seem to be around to my observation - and a few strange, tough-looking new faces are seen - from god knows where!

    What do you "public" readers and posters here think?

  11. Nurse Pinch

    Nurse Pinch Patron with Honors

    A friend of mine sent me this email last night...

    "I got confirmation yesterday from an OT 5 (out) that 2 of her OT 7 friends have handed in their materials and called it quits.

    Our stats are up! " :happydance:

  12. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    I think many Public are also fading away/avoiding Orgs and their Events,etc. I have a friend who's still in, and even she sounds like she wants to 'just get to Clear' (she's on/or done NED already)..and the way she says it, sounds like she might then simply fade away or become inactive at that it IS Verrrry expensive, the reg's are always pumping her to max out all her cc's and she steadfastly refuses, good for her! :happydance:

    YAY! :happydance:
  13. EP - Ethics Particle

    EP - Ethics Particle Gold Meritorious Patron

  14. Boldgirl

    Boldgirl Patron Meritorious

    intersting indeed! When you get more info...I wonder if it is because it is taking way more years more than they were told, or is it they feel worse and depressed, or is it the cost, or is it the sec check arbitraries, or is anons, or is it DM, or is it....??????????
  15. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron

    I know in my area it's the same people that are giving over and over. I know they aren't making many new Scientologists.
  16. EP - Ethics Particle

    EP - Ethics Particle Gold Meritorious Patron

    Cliches from my youth...

    ...for what it's worth, you "public" Scientologists, staff and SO...:p Here's some "tech" fer ya! :whistling: :dieslaughing:

    "Never work a good horse to death." :no:


    "A fartin' mule never burns out." :duh: :D

    Roy, the EP's EP
  17. Gypsy2112

    Gypsy2112 Patron

    I dont know about other orgs but something like 85% of SFO's field is considered dead, meaning they aren't on service anywhere and wont come into the org. We were told (by our SO missionaires) that this was larger than any other org, but I don't really beleive that. I think it's fairly standard from what little I've seen elsewhere
  18. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron

    OMG........:lol: :roflmao: :hysterical: :laugh:
    SO fitting!

    Percentage wise I completely agree. Speaking any truth to Sea Org members about this and you get the "that's black PR" line....ah no it's truth. I was there and saw it myself. Some staff at Atlanta org were sleeping in the Org because they didn't have any money. That's truth!:confused2:
  19. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    FCDC has the oldest "field" in the US...their numbers are about the same.....looks like Scn is attracting the PTS'es!
  20. thetanic

    thetanic Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes, fairly standard when compared to my old org's information.