ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



Who actually saw Hubbard take drugs ?

Discussion in 'L Ron Hubbard' started by AnonKat, Jan 16, 2012.

View Users: View Users
  1. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

    Anybody with first hand knowledge about Hubbard taking drugs. And wich was it?

    Have you ever bought it for him ?

    Just intrested in first hand expieriences with this particular topic.

    Any Ex-Scientologist who ever assisted Hubbard taking drugs ?

    In the light that a good amount of lovely people passed away. second hand interpersonal knowlegde should be relevant too.
     
  2. Lure Rob & Hyde

    Lure Rob & Hyde Patron with Honors


    Your evidence is on 2 sworn affidavits to the court one by Andre Tabayoyan and the other by Kima Douglas both personal aids of hubbard.
    The other one is his own son Ron Hubbard Jr also known as Ron Dewolfe that you can google or check youtube.
    There are more of these legal documents but this is a start.
    You can google them or go to Xenu.com
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  3. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Here's a partial collection of information on Hubbard's drug and alcohol outlook and use. There's more.

    From 'Terra Incognita: The Mind':

    "The best stimulant is Benzedrine. In its absence an overdose of coffee will do."


    From 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' (1950):

    "Opium is less harmful [than alcohol], marijuana is not only less physically harmful but also better in the action of keeping a neurotic producing, phenobarbital does not dull the senses nearly as much and produces less after effect..."


    From a 'Philadelphia Doctorate Course' lectures (1952):

    Lecture 27: "The body - He has never used it. He's taken care of it."

    Lecture 33: "There isn't any reason it shouldn't drink all the liquor it can hold... be perfectly free to use the body in any way he chooses."


    Ron Jr. from 'Messiah or Madman?' (concerning the 1950s):

    "My whole life I've always marvelled at his capacity to consume alcohol and remain upright and coherent. A fifth of Myers dark run was like two aspirin to dad...

    "He [Hubbard Sr.] would sit at his typewriter late at night and boost up on drugs and hit way at the top, and just write like crazy. He could type 97 words a minute with four fingers. That was the maximum the old IBM electric typewriter would go. When he got into one of these drugs trips, he'd write until the body just collapsed.

    "That's the way he worked. Usually what he had written in a burst would then be allowed to trickle out to the public, the classes he taught. It just wouldn't show up right away."


    'Challenge', a poster on ESMB, and an old timer who knew Hubbard, and even smoked a joint with him in 1953 in Phoenix, has written of Hubbard's drug use in the 1950s. Other old timers have also written of Hubbard's drug&alcohol use in the 1950s&1960s.


    Hubbard's bottle a night at St. Hill, and how it was discreetly discarded the next morning: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=72911&postcount=11


    From 'Keeping Scientology Working' (1965):

    "We will not speculate here on... how I came to rise above the bank."


    A few excerpts from the John McMaster interview in the book, 'Messiah or Madman?' (McMaster was "the first real Clear"):

    "...In all the years of working for him I found that he absolutely despised people for being Scientologists."

    McMaster commented on an encounter with Hubbard at St. Hill, when he urgently needed to relay a message:

    "Well, it was about mid day. He was just getting up. He was a night owl. Anyway, I got up there and he was in his bathroom, which was attached to his bedroom. He came out and I was surprised at the color of his body. It was grey. He came out nude.

    "And there on the table was one of those enormous bottles of Gin."

    On the Apollo, McMaster witnessed Hubbard's drug supply, "It was the largest drug chest I had ever seen. He had everything!"


    From Aleister Crowley's 'The Book of the Law':

    "We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit; let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of Kings: stamp down the wretched and the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.

    "...I am the snake that giveth knowledge and delight, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness. To worship me take wine and strange drugs. They shall not harm ye at all. It is a lie, this folly against self...

    "...The Kings of Earth shall be the Kings forever: the slaves shall serve.

    "Them that seek to entrap thee, to overthrow thee, them attack without pity or quarter; and destroy them utterly."

    The 'Law of Thelema' is "Do What Thou Wilt." For Crowleyites, its "Bible" is 'The Book of The Law'. http://www.lawbright.com/logdos/crow.jpg

    From one of Jack Parsons' letters to Aleister Crowley, re. Hubbard: "He [Hubbard] is the most Thelemic person I have ever met..."

    And from Jack Parsons, Hubbard's "Magic(k)al partner" for a time in 1946. Parsons wrote this poem, which appeared in 1943, in the 'Oriflamme' Journal of the O.T.O:

    "I hight Don Quixote, I live on Peyote, Marijuana,
    "Morphine and Cocaine,
    "I never know sadness, but only a madness,
    "That burns in the heart and the brain.
    "I see each charwoman, ecstatic, inhuman, angelic, demonic, divine.
    "Each wagon a dragon, each beer mug a flagon
    "That burns with ambrosial wine."


    Some more links re. alcohol and drugs:

    http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/bts-or-dts.txt

    http://www.holysmoke.org/dp000/16.htm


    There are two tapes that come to mind where Hubbard appeared to be inebriated. One is a 1952 'PDC' lecture where he goes on about "Liberty, Equality, Eternity," and the other is - I believe - an FEBC tape, from around 1970, where he shouts, "Communista! Communista!'


     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  4. NCSP

    NCSP Patron Meritorious

    Funny you should mention this today: earlier I noticed that Neville Chamberlin left this comment on a link Candy Swanson posted on Facebook (I hope he doesn't mind my reposting it):

    I don't know if he's reachable or particularly eager to talk, but he seems to have some firsthand knowledge.
     
  5. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Hubbard "resigned in 1966," became "fabian," and painted a big red target on his wife Mary Sue's back.

    Also from late 1966/early 1967: Hubbard had what appeared to be a nervous breakdown - post Rhodesia. Yet Hubbard rebounded by becoming the Commodore, and by inventing Xenu and OT 3's Incident 2 as the galactic super-engram that "destroyed the sanity of every man, woman and child," etc. This explained why people were laughing when he sat down at the piano... (Only a galaxy-wide super-duper-engram could explain why "wogs" were not awe struck and happily obedient to L. Ron Hubbard's wishes.)

    In the chapter 'Launching the Sea Org', in the book 'Bare-Faced Messiah', Virginia Downsborough was interviewed, by author Russell Miller, about her time in Las Palmas with L. Ron Hubbard.

    Downsborough was surprised by the large number of bottles of pills that were around Hubbard's bed where he lay moping. She did not report any physical injury. Here's an excerpt:

    "He talked a lot about Sara Northrup and seemed to want to make sure that I knew that he had never married her. I didn't know why it was so important to him; I'd never met Sara and couldn't care less, but he wanted to persuade me that the marriage had never taken place. When he talked about his first wife, the picture he put out was of this poor wounded fellow coming home from the war and being abandoned by his wife and family because he would be a drain on them. He said he planned every move along the way with Mary Sue to avoid being victimized again."

    According to Alan Walter, "Virginia Downsborough... was LRH's nurse in Las Palmas. I had to clean her up after that, but she was shattered by what she witnessed."

    Hubbard also referred to his situation as a wounded war hero in his 1965, 'My Philosophy'. I might as well include the entire post from which I was about to cut and paste this quote:

    From 'Keeping Scientology Working', 7 February, 1965:

    "We're not playing some minor game in Scientology. It isn't something cute to do for lack of something better.

    "The whole agonized future of this planet, every Man, Woman, and Child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless trillions of years depend on what you do here and now with and in Scientology :unsure::ohmy::yes:

    "This is a deadly serious activity. And if we miss getting out of the trap now, we may never again have another chance :spacecraft:. [See 'Implantology'] Remember, this is our first chance in all the endless trillions of years of the past . Don't muff it now because it seems unpleasant or unsocial to do Seven [Hammering out of existence incorrect technology], Eight..."


    Just prior to the appearance of 'KSW', was published the piece 'My Philosophy', in which L. Ron Hubbard told Scientologists:

    "Blinded with injured optic nerves, and lame with physical injuries to the hip and back, at the end of World War II, I faced an almost nonexistent future. My service record stated: 'This officer has no neurotic or psychotic tendencies whatsoever', but also stated, 'permanently disabled physically'.

    "And so there came a further blow. I was abandoned by family and friends :violin: as a supposedly hopeless cripple and probable burden on them for the rest of my days."


    And, on 7 March 1965, exactly one month after the appearance of 'KSW' was published 'Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists, the Fair Game Law':

    "A Suppressive person or group becomes 'fair game'.

    "By Fair Game is meant, without rights for self, possessions or position, and no Scientologist may be brought before a Committee of Evidence or punished for any action taken against a Suppressive Person or group...

    "Suppressive acts are defined as actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce, or impede Scientology or Scientologists.

    "Such suppressive acts include public disavowal of Scientology... public statements against Scientology.

    "[Suppressive acts also include] 1st degree murder, arson, disintegration of persons or belongings not [emphasis added] guilty of suppressive acts.

    "[Suppressive Persons] place themselves beyond any consideration for their feelings :nazi:or well being...

    "The homes, property, places, and abodes of persons who have been active in attempting to suppress Scientology... are all beyond any protection."


    And thus began the (post 1965) era of "modern Scientology," in which L. Ron Hubbard began in earnest to apply the basics of this booklet http://warrior.xenu.ca/Brainwashing-front.jpg on his own followers.

    Strangely enough, some people regard this period as "the good old days," when the 'Scientological Onion' http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105 was robust, and before the final monument building stage of Scientology commenced - per L. Ron Hubbard's confidential instructions - under its current leader David Miscavige. http://deadagenting.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/hubbard-and-miscavige-2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  6. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    ..

    And there's his own admission:

    - L. Ron Hubbard in a 1967 letter to his (third) wife, written during the period when he was creating Scientology’s secret "upper levels." (Bent Corydon and L. Ron Hubbard, Jr. a.k.a. Ronald DeWolf, L. RON HUBBARD: MESSIAH OR MADMAN? Random House 1989)
     
  7. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster Guest

    Which, to this very day, no "critic" has ever been been able to identify with even a small probability of being correct, even if that purported letter was genuine and accurate.

    Was it something like Aspirin or Cold Medication or Allergy Medication ? You sure don't know, Infinite.
     
  8. Challenge

    Challenge Silver Meritorious Patron


    "Pinks" were Dexedrine tablets.

    I have no dox, Sneaks. I know because several of us "oldtimers" were taking them.

    challenge
     
  9. NCSP

    NCSP Patron Meritorious

  10. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster Guest

    By the way, where is the full text of the letter in question so that the actual context of that alleged quote may be known ? I'll wager the full text speaks of some illness or other for which this might even have been appropriate, depending on what those pills actually were.

    Has even one of you who routinely cites this quote, ever demanded to see the full the text from whence it was excerpted ? Why is there no scanned copy online on any critic site ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2012
  11. NCSP

    NCSP Patron Meritorious

    The letter was an exhibit in the Armstrong case. It's cited (not in full) in Corydon, Miller, and Atack. There are corroborating eyewitness accounts.

    But I have to say you're really straining credibility in your last paragraph. I know you don't want it to be true, but that is a really unlikely reading. For one thing, would he have been drinking "lots of rum" to recover from an illness? Even then, people knew not to mix alcohol and medicine.

    BTW, Miller's publisher was sued by Scientology for infringement for publishing Hubbard's private correspondence. That's not conclusive -- the letters in dispute could have been different ones -- but it strongly suggests that even Scientology conceded that it was genuine.
     
  12. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster Guest

    You know nothing about what I want, evidently. I want to know what the letter actually said and why no critic who uses this quote has ever posted it.

    You haven't read it either, have you NCSP ?
     
  13. NCSP

    NCSP Patron Meritorious

    No, I haven't. Neither have you. Most of the time, in the absence of full information, you have to use judgment based on what is most likely to be true. And in my judgment, the traditional interpretation is most likely to be true. You've offered speculation to support your reading. I've offered corroboration.
     
  14. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster Guest

    Excuse me, I'm not attempting to defend my speculation as to the actual contents. So this response is non sequitur.

    I'm not trying to be mean, either. I want to know why, in all these years, nobody seems to have given a flying fuck what the letter actually said from which that quote was cherry-picked.
     
  15. NCSP

    NCSP Patron Meritorious

    You're starting to escalate this to a level of invective that I'm not willing to match.
     
  16. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster Guest

    I'm sorry. I'm very angry over this, but not at you.

    Actually, I'm also very dismayed and also sad to tears.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2012
  17. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    ...


    ..

    ANSWER: Because only you are pretending to be a lawyer in trial court, making foundational objections that you hope will bar the introduction of evidence against your client, Dr. Hubbard.

    ANOTHER ANSWER: Because nobody really much cares whether Hubbard was drunk/drugged or mentally ill or just lying when he wrote "scientific discoveries" like the Gorilla Goals.


    If I had Hubbard as my client, I'd be angry and despondent too.
     
  18. Peter Soderqvist

    Peter Soderqvist Patron with Honors

    Affidavit of Hana Whitfield
    241. Sally was left to die on her own. She was in terrible pain continually, with nothing to alleviate it. Dr. Gene Denk ("Denk"), a Scientologist physician, saw her occasionally. It was Denk who gave Hubbard's medical officers blank, signed prescription forms so Hubbard could get all the drugs he wanted. I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States of America that the foregoing is true and correct. Executed in Los Angeles, California this 8th day of March, 1994.
    http://gathering-minds.net/fza/doc437
     
  19. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Well, jeez, dude :ohmy:, mellow out.:bong::flasher::witch2::runaround::rickroll:

    There were numerous references to Hubbard's drug and alcohol use, taken from his own writings, read into the court record during Armstrong vs Church of Scientology of 1984. There was also reference to his use of self-hypnosis and hypnosis. The judge also read these documents, and other documents, and listened to testimony.

    Excerpts from the 20 June 1984 findings of Judge Breckenridge:

    "As indicated by its factual findings, the court finds the testimony of Gerald and Joycelyn Armstrong, Laurel Sullivan, Nancy Dincalcis, Edward Walters, Omar Garrison, Kima Douglas, and Howard Schomer to be credible, extremely persuasive... In all critical and important matters their testimony was precise, accurate and rang true...

    "Each has broken with the movement for a variety of reasons, but at the same time, each is still bound by the knowledge that the Church has in its possession his or her own most inner thoughts and confessions, all recorded in 'pre-clear' folders, or other security files of the organization, and that the Church or its minions is fully capable of physical intimidation, or other physical or psychological abuse if it suits their ends. The record is replete with evidence of such abuse.

    "In addition to violating and abusing its own members' civil rights, the organization over the years with its 'Fair Game' doctrine has harassed and abused those persons not in the Church whom it perceives as enemies.

    "The organization clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and this bizarre combination seems to be a reflection of its founder LRH. The evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar when it comes to his history, background and achievements.

    "The writings and documents in evidence additionally reflect his egotism, greed, avarice, lust for power, and vindictiveness and aggressiveness against persons perceived by him to be disloyal or hostile.

    "At the same time it appears that he is charismatic and highly capable of motivating, organizing, controlling, manipulating, and inspiring his adherents...

    "Obviously, he is and was a very complex person, and that complexity is further reflected in his alter-ego, the Church of Scientology. Notwithstanding protestations to the contrary, this court is satisfied that LRH runs the Church in all ways, through the Sea Organization, his role as Commodore, and the Commodore's Messengers.

    "He has, of course, chosen to go into 'seclusion', but he maintains contact and control through his top messengers.

    "Seclusion has its light and dark side too. It adds to his mystique, and yet shields him from accountability and subpoena and service of summons.

    "LRH's wife, Mary Sue Hubbard, is also a plaintiff herein. On the one hand she certainly appeared to be a pathetic individual. She was forced from her post as Controller, convicted and imprisoned as a felon, and deserted by her husband.

    "On the other hand her credibility leaves much to be desired. she struck the familiar pose of not seeing, hearing, or knowing any evil..."


    Now we have the new breed of outside the CofS Hubbardites, who "do not see, hear, or know any evil" regarding things having to do with Hubbard except, when their backs are against the wall, as a desperate act of PR damage control, or when an "acceptable truth" is necessary so as to maintain "ARC" with the "low toned wogs" and "Ex (failed) Scientologists" who feel compelled to "make RON wrong."

    What's been mentioned so far on this thread is just the tip of iceberg. Get a grip. :)
     
  20. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    ..

    I think its fair to conclude, on the evidence presented in this thread, that L Ron Hubbard sustained a life-long use of drugs, especially alcohol and pharmaceuticals. How else can you explain Xenu?