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Who is Geir Isene?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by skollie, Aug 11, 2009.

  1. Peter Soderqvist

    Peter Soderqvist Patron with Honors

    Operation Silver Bullet!

    Soderqvist1: Mr Nobody!
    Mike Rinder, and Marty Rathbun in “The Truth Rundown” and the authors of the "Scientology Cult" Home site, should tell the Police what they know, and so set the ball rolling, and let the prosecutor decide if he has a case or not! The Police will probably start a Preliminary Investigation in order to interrogate other Ex-Scientologists listed by these reporters to the Police; sooner or later the Prosecutor will have a case!
    http://www.scientology-cult.com/

    The Truth Rundown
    http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/
     
  2. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    You can run such calculations all day long, and you still wouldn't prove that there aren't 8 million (inactive) Scientologists worldwide.

    I guess the best way to show the pathetic membership numbers is to to get some staff and to let them state "Hamburg Org is empty the whole month", "London Org is empty the whole month" etc.

    But you see, he isn't saying "Scn is the fastest membership gaining religion". He obviously defines "Growing religion" as "Squaremeter-expaning religion" which makes his statement probably true.

    I don't know much about the libraries thing. Maybe it was a lie, maybe he made a mistake.

    Yes, as I wrote at
    http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=283141&postcount=23
    your doubt-write up should be "ethically legal" even by the Church's own standards.

    Wrong. Please, don't switch the burden of proof here. And especially if it's about irrelevant stats like "WTH booklets". If Miscavige lied about the "well done auditing hours on NOTs" then nail him. But you see, probably one reason why they have the "refreshers" is to increase these "auditing hours on OT levels" so that they can report TRUTHFUL (yet misleading) stats. I don't think Miscavige ever lied about 1 single stat. He twists the definitions ("Thousands of books sold (but to orgs and not to publics") and he zooms in, but he doesn't lie. If he does then YOU have to prove it.

    As I wrote at
    http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=12887
    the problem is not Miscavige, I believe that he is a 100% faithful Hubbard fan. The problem is Hubbard himself (who invented Sea Org and Ethics) or the lack of Hubbard (to abolish Sea Org and Ethics).
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2009
  3. seawhisperer

    seawhisperer Patron

    @ knn:

    I'm pretty sure Miscavige is lying about the library thing. It is true that a lot (maybe all) of the libraries he speaks of have received the basics, but it is also true that most of those libraries have chosen to send the set back to the publishers, or to maybe put one or two of the books in their catalog.
     
  4. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    knn is derailing it into a battle of semantics - did DM or did he not get careless with the truth over whether or not he knowingly and with malice aforethought etc etc etc.

    The point being made really is that the cult is based on lies and they're fairly easy to disprove - go to the net and look up your local library and see how many Hubbard books are in it.

    There's a whole thread I started on that subject (Basics Books Bonza Buggerup) plus a few others.

    This was Geir's thread and I'd prefer he takes it back over and we get on with it.:D
     
  5. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    Yes, you have to grammatically dissect Miscavige's stats, just as you had to with Bush's statements about Iraq. See the post below why Miscavige is not technically lying.

    Yes, I am not sure about "the books in the libraries" but I would have to know what he stated and what happened next before I would accuse him of lying.

    Links?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2009
  6. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    Here is some intgeresting calculation about the number of Scientologists during the Church's peak times:
    Instead of the church numbering millions of adherents, its faithful followers could in no way ever have exceeded 200,000. I will tell you why. In 1978, it was published by world-wide that he had made about $2 million on book sales in the previous year, and the new books that were out totalled about a thousand a set, so simple mathematics would give you about 200,000 true believers, willing to buy his new books. Only about half of the book buyers are church believers, so the religion at its peaks has had a market penetration of 100,000 people.

    Excalibur Revisited
     
  7. Rae

    Rae Patron with Honors

    Thank the gods that someone else here sees this. KNN just loves to do this with every thread that he/she posts on. Let's just get back on track here.

    I, myself, sat in shock at the 2008 May 9th event as I listened to it being stated that my org's academy was "over-capacity". I was posted in the Tech Div and knew quite well that this was a total lie. My OES knew it too.

    There are so many others that were at Int when these events were being prepared that have told of the stats being manipulated/falsified that there's no reason to continue it a moment further.
     
  8. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    Thank you for reading my posts and acknowledging my efforts to put the fight against the Church and Miscavige on solid grounds, just like you are doing it here:

    Let me also add this link
    http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/fact-checking-david-miscavige/
    One of the best Scientology-related blogs, which features this graph that shows how Miscaviges uses semantics.

    As you see the trend is FALLING, but nevertheless Miscavige can state "From 2003 to 2008 we doubled the number". And technically he did not lie.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 22, 2009
  9. Rae

    Rae Patron with Honors

    Posted by Knn to Rae

    Too bad...You missed my point. I was acknowledging Scooter's post about you derailing the thread. My post was acknowledging that I agreed 100% with what Scooter said.

    You need to do some research instead of linking to your own ESMB posts as some kind of relevant information. I personally could do without you ever posting anything on this board again.

    Now..can we all get back to the thread? Geir has made some great posts on his blog page. Here's the most recent one "When I Met David Miscavage" http://elysianchakorta.wordpress.com/2009/08/21/when-i-met-david-miscavige/
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2009
  10. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    Too bad... you missed my irony.

    It's interesting that you accuse me of derailing the thread when everything I posted was dealing with Geir's doubt formula, while YOU get personal.

    You see, you yourself are one of the ex-Scientologists who fabricates accusations as soon as they fit your bias:
    http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=283697&postcount=15

    So why should we wonder that you have something against someone like me who tries to separate provable facts ("Number of Orgs didn't rise") from self-patting speculations ("Miscavige lies about stats")

    Wanna declare me SP? Want me to declare you PTS Type III in return?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2009
  11. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    Good comment about Miscavige's lies at Isene's blog:
    At an Event some Years ago Miscavige told that the church has 64000 Volunteer Ministers Worldwide. At an later he suddenly had around 26000 Volunteer Minister worldwide, and this year at Birthday event he talked about 196 000 Volunteer Ministers worldwide, bigger than the red cross. I think he doesn’t really check the figures in his speeches. If you would ask your org how many volunteers would be ready in 24 hours in case of a local or distant catastrophe, and where they have their rescue material stored and how many finances are put aside, then you wouldn’t believe it. Normaly osa is trying to find sponsors for the volunteers to go, and not many volunteers are ready in 24 hours. The red cross has volunteers (rescue workers) all over the planet that can go in no amount of time, have material and finances ready.

    Some years ago Miscavige told at an event that in Italy when the Olympic winter games took place, the church of scientology was asked to help with their volunteer Ministers. This was a blatant lie, as a young Girl that traveled there and wanted to help as a volunteer by the Games told, it was no volunteer work but they were placed far away from the main activities in a side street and the only thing they had to do was to bodyroute people to a bookstand and there were some booksellers trying to sell Lrh Books. She came back very disillusionned,sad and complaining about that one of the bookseller has been harassing her sexually.

    At a later event Miscavige showed just some short pictures of the volunteers that have taken part by the olympic Games. I knew it was a joke !

    This year we met a good old friend that was part of an activity in which the leader got a freedom medal for it. He told that the data given in the speech by miscavige wasn’t true and the results that were promoted weren’t there, that in fact the activity was a big mess and at he end a failure (sorry that I don’t give the specifics, but i want to protect the involved persons), nevertheless miscavige promoted it as a big win and thousands of people that have been connected with Lrh Tech.
    ...
    Sorry I could go on, propably I’ll write that Stuff later with only real facts and some analysis of the real stats.
    ...
    When you are asked to pay money for the TV ads ask how many real First starts were made by the campaign. Tr3 on it and tell you give some money when he comes up with the real number of an org. Ask how many first start did Malmö have last week ? Ask about the real stat of ideal Orgs. How many Wdah did Berlin Org deliver last week ? Or how many people (Bis=Bodies in the shop)were on services that week ? The guys that are calling from int know those figures by heart. Be not suprised them becoming reactive when you tr3 on it .

    For the last months I was asking those questions and you will not believe the reactions you gonna get. Just do it and the think for yourself

    http://elysianchakorta.wordpress.com/2009/08/16/unfit-for-duty/
    Isene's blog starts to become one of the best blogs!
     
  12. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

  13. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

  14. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Geir's spirit is certainly appreciated. It would certainly be more interesting if there were some sort of internal power fight. Perhaps everyone should just declare everyone else suppressives, and demand to take over the Church for themselves, and then put everyone else in the RPF.
     
  15. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    That could be fun. Then they could split into several splinter groups and point fingers at each other as the "real" SPs responsible for the decline of scientology.
     
  16. Illegal Alien

    Illegal Alien Patron with Honors

    VWD :thumbsup:

    I admire your personal integrity and willingness to stand up and say what you believe.

    What you said in your doubt formula is exactly right.

    The OUTPOINTS of current Management is what got my fire burning and what ultimately lead to me investigating and walking away.
     
  17. exscilon

    exscilon Patron

    Hello Geir,

    You said on your blog:

    # The church should encourage scientific research projects to document gains from applying the technology.


    Why won't you just demonstrate your OT powers?
    Why is it unethical to display them, yet ethical to claim to have them?
    You do have OT powers, right?
    OT VIII's should have powers that a wog would consider magical.
    You could create millions of Scientologists if you could display your OT powers (and be one million American Dollars richer).

    As far as I see, there is not a shred of scientific evidence of any OT powers.
     
  18. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    OT Powers? I'd settle for 100% creating "well and happy human beings who no longer have their own reactive mind"
     
  19. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster Guest

    ..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2012
  20. exscilon

    exscilon Patron

    Unless I'm mistaken, New OT VIII's are supposed to have extraordinary powers. Why can't anyone demonstrate them?

    Geir wants to put Scientology into the hands of the people of Earth. We should get a little verification on how well it works. Objective verification, not subjective.

    Do OT VIII's have any verifiable abilities that a wog doesn't have? Why is this so off limits? I used to think OT VIIIs were special. If I had super powers I wouldn't hide them.

    You seem rude towards me Michael.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2009