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Who is Geir Isene?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by skollie, Aug 11, 2009.

  1. KnightVision

    KnightVision Gold Meritorious Patron

    You can prove that their are and have never been 10 flying elephants in the sky?
  2. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)


    it takes immense amount of personal fortitude to examine what one has devoted so much time and effort to and to realize that it has not been worthwhile and then to publicly acknowledge it and make a change.

    You and Feral and Mrs Feral and Michael Tilse are the four I know best and I salute all of you (and apologies to those I missed). I wish I had had your fortitude and your courage.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2009
  3. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    Wow looks like an awesome vid! ...But how do I display the subtitles? :unsure:
  4. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Click on the triangle at the right. There was a delay when I did it. I don't know if they were missing at the beginning or if it takes a few seconds to kick in.

  5. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    you can prove that the concept "OT" and the concept "Clear" have any validity other than Hubbardian imagination?
  6. In the universe we happen to live in there is a concept widely accepted which is known as reality and in this realm of reality it is up to the person who is claiming that something exists to prove that it exists, since it is impossible to prove something doesn't exist ... because it simply does not exist.

    No one can prove that my left testicle did not create the universe, if I was crazy enough to believe my left testicle was God or that something as silly as OT, Clears and the Tooth Fairy existed it would be up to me to prove these statements of existence, not to other way around.

    But nice try
  7. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    As far as I know there aren't even any 'stable' definitions of the terms 'Clear' and 'OT', just the terms themselves and people variously infusing them with variable meanings tailored to fit any argument they're currently pushing.

    This can range from 'somebody who can regrow his own teeth' is 'Clear' to 'somebody who isn't a quivering mess when forced to answer the phone' is 'Clear'. Or, for 'OT' somebody who can control all of space/time/matter/energy' is 'OT' to 'Somebody who can get out of bed in the morning without being dragged' is 'OT'.

    OT and Clear are words without any certain referent; they're a mystery grab bag. Deliberately so. Because Scientology claims to be able to *make* Clears and OTs and, it's got nothing to show for what it makes but messes.

  8. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    What He said! SHOW US THE OT!!!!
  9. Yep show me just one "OT" or "Clear" and I will admit I was all wrong about Scientology
  10. Pepin

    Pepin Patron with Honors

    Oh that's right. The world is flat!!
  11. Pepin

    Pepin Patron with Honors

    Correct me if I'm wrong...

    Didn't hubbard label the spirit "Thetan"? And didn't he write that an OT is operating in life as a spirit rather than a body?

    For such a simple definition it appears to me that everyone on this planet is OT even if they THINK they are a body.
  12. Good twin

    Good twin Floater

    Would you like to attest?
  13. I believe he would, do you accept Visa or MasterCard?
  14. Well that doesn't surprise me, If you believe Clears and OTs exists, I could see where you would also believe the world is flat too.
  15. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Before anyone could do this you'd have to have an agreed-upon definition of these things.
    You'd need to establish some parameters that would allow the demonstration of proof.

    What would you expect a Clear or OT to look like or demonstrate?
    What would constitute proof to you?

    I'm genuinely curious.
  16. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Well, I don't think that a Clear or OT- as the concept, I mean- is all that much different from the idea of saints, saddhus, psychics, mystics who were said to be able to do certain extraordinary things. It's really the same thing.

    But to someone who's an atheist (I don't know if you are one or not. This is not meant as a dig.) then that comparison wouldn't mean anything significant. But for those who do believe certain states and abilities are possible, then that would be the best way I could explain it.
  17. Hubbard claimed a Clear would have total recall, a very simple test would be to have their auditor randomly pull out three days of auditing out of their PC folders and ask them what they covered on those particular days and what color shirt the auditor was wearing. I'd settle for two out of three ... I'd even settle for one out of three.
  18. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    That's a postulated/posited potential "ability", some autistic-savants seem to do it easily enough, does that mean they're Clear?

    I don't know any Clears who could do it with certainty (unless, of course, it was a particularly memorable shirt) and don't agree that it's a good test of whether or not the guy is Clear.
  19. We are not talking about blind faith here or spirituality. Hubbard claimed his material was based on scientifically backed principles that were guaranteed to produced the results he claimed as long as you turned off your brain and left all the thinking to him. As long as you follow Hubbard totalitarian principles you would be transformed into "Homo Novis".
  20. Pepin

    Pepin Patron with Honors

    Mais OUI!!