ESMB is now closed to new registrations. Please go to www.exscn2.net and register there.

 

Who is Gunther Laws?

Discussion in 'Leaks - Emails, Promo, Insider Info' started by Outethicsofficer, Nov 11, 2009.

View Users: View Users
  1. Outethicsofficer

    Outethicsofficer Silver Meritorious Patron

    This is so damned funny, we are in the midst of obtaining funds from various orgs around the world and so forth, there has been email traffic back and forth the latest is this. My wife's father is Mr Williams:confused2: I am sure he will be most upset to find that he was in fact pipped at the post by a Gunther Laws:ohmy:, Liz's mum will be surprised too to find Gunther somehow managed to impregnate her from parts unknown?:omg: Oh Oh Gunter:whistling:

    Now Gunter is sadly deceased, condolences to Gunter's family.

    Liz is finally reunited by the Church of fucked up Scenarios.

    Seriously fucked up admin and erroneous scenarios.

    Liz is distressed at the loss of her "father" "Gunter".

    Send chocolates and flowers.

    Needless to say we are not signing this.










    From: Freewinds [mailto:freewinds@freewinds.org]
    Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 6:14 PM
    To: liz
    Subject: RE: Attention: FSSO OSA - Re: Repayment - KEA VERWEJ



    Dear Liz,

    Please send me the waiver below back after signing and witnessed

    thank you

    ml, Kea, Chaplain FSSO



    Church Of Scientology

    Flag Ship Service Organization Inc.

    Release and Waiver

    Liz Anderson







    1. I, Liz Anderson, no longer in agreement with the aims and teachings
    of the Church of Scientology, have requested a repayment of donations I have
    made and made by my deceased father Gunther Laws, to the Church of
    Scientology Flag Ship Service Organization (FSSO)



    2. In exchange for and on receipt of payment of $ 5415.00 I, Liz
    Anderson, release and waive all claims for damages, injuries or losses
    sustained of any kind or nature, whether known or unknown which I may have
    from the beginning of time up to and including this day against the Church
    of Scientology FSSO and Majestic Cruise Lines; its officers, trustees,
    agents, representatives, servants, employees, volunteers, directors,
    predecessors, successors, licensees, licensors, assigns, and beneficiaries;
    and for each individual, his successors, representatives, assigns,
    beneficiaries, executors and administrators



    3. I am waiving the provisions of California Civil Section 1542 which
    provides "A general release does not extend to claims which the creditor
    does not know or suspect to exist in his favor at the time of executing the
    release, which if known by him must have materially affected his settlement
    with the debtor."



    4. I understand that this release and waiver signifies settlement of
    disputed claims and does not constitute an admission by any of the released
    parties of any wrongdoing and that each released party expressly deny the
    validity of such claims.



    5. I am in full understanding that I may not again obtain spiritual
    counseling or training from any Church of Scientology or other Scientology
    organization and that this document is notification of my expulsion from the
    Church of Scientology International. I further understand that such
    expulsion is not without recourse, such recourse being initiated by an act
    of contrition and I am fully informed as to what this recourse entails.





    6. I acknowledge and affirm that I have carefully read this release and
    waiver and that I sign it of my own free will without any duress from the
    released parties or anyone else.



    7. I acknowledge and affirm that I am not under the influence of any
    drug, narcotic, alcohol or other mind-influencing substance, condition or
    ailment such that my ability to fully understand the meaning of this release
    and waiver and the significance thereof would be adversely affected.



    8. In the event any provision hereof be unenforceable, such provision
    shall not affect the enforceability of any other provision hereof.



    I declare under penalty of perjury under the California law and, if
    different, under the law of the state and country in which I am located that
    the foregoing is true and correct.



    Executed this ______day of ____________ (month and year) in Belconnen, BC
    Australia.




    Liz's response:

    Dear Kea



    Thanks for sending this waiver.



    The amount of my repayment is incorrect there is an inter-org transfer from the AOSH ANZO for money that was transferred from the FSSO to the AOSH ANZO. Michael Gordon from OSA ANZO was to ensure this administration work was done. Also, I would appreciate the repayment amount calculated in both US and Australian dollars.



    Further, my request is for a repayment for money not being used. However, the waiver states expulsion. What LRH policy reference are you using?



    Also, I do not wish to waive my rights. So, Do you recommend I should seek legal advice on this waiver?



    Did you read this waiver yourself? Who is Gunther Laws?? He is not my father... my father is very much alive...



    I’m a bit confused!!!



    Regards

    Liz Anderson
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2009
  2. Happy Days

    Happy Days Silver Meritorious Patron

    Further to this whole out PR stuff... I feel for Gunther's family. :bigcry:

    What a shock to receive such a communcation. Certainly goes with the statement that the SO are producing ... cold heartless people.

    This has to be the most unprofessional group on the planet...

    Also, must be some heavy shit going down... the Church really wants to rap up my claims at the moment and even then they get the amount of $$$'s wrong and the waiver... :duh::duh:
     
  3. Outethicsofficer

    Outethicsofficer Silver Meritorious Patron

  4. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator

    I remember Gunther. I was forever trying to get him on course.

    He was a grumpy old fart back then. In hindsight maybe he'd already "left" Scientology.

    I wasn't aware he had died.

    RIP Gunther. :rose:
     
  5. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    From Kea Chump FSSO

    I don't know why you are Q and A' ing about Gunther.

    Since you are in a country that has laws, we must ask that you please cooperate with us here on the high seas where we live beyond the laws of any land.

    You need to have mercy on us and give us time to pressure our few remaining members whom we will suck money from. You see we spent your money, well we didn't spend it all, a lot of it we salted away in foreign bank accounts. But honestly it is all gone so have patience.

    Also please ignore my premature acknowledgement of thank you. I take that back, so you will continue with our duping of you.

    If you would be so kind as to take your time as I don't want my stats to be down again this week and I don't want to go to the Refund Project force again.

    Whatever you do don't send a copy of this to the IRS or any government representative, as they keep giving us Dev't KRs

    with mucho frustration

    Again please take your time,

    MY damned Luck,

    Kea
     
  6. Outethicsofficer

    Outethicsofficer Silver Meritorious Patron

    I do too now

    Yes Emma,
    I recall Gunther I was a little slow on placing him but soon as I saw the picture I remembered him, he was a grump.

    James
     
  7. skollie

    skollie Silver Meritorious Patron


    I hope Gunther's family knows that he has some monies due.
     
  8. Happy Days

    Happy Days Silver Meritorious Patron

    Yes, Skollie... how do we get in contact with the family.. maybe Emma knows???
     
  9. Outethicsofficer

    Outethicsofficer Silver Meritorious Patron

    LOL

    Reads like something out of Mission Earth.
    James
     
  10. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    I remember Gunther well. He was a trouper but, yes, he was pretty pissed off at times. (Like so many of his fellow OT7s and 8s).

    Gunther and Erika Laws (also deceased) were both very interesting and wonderful people. I liked them a lot.

    I think what this email mentioning Gunther actually tells you, James and Liz, is that their surviving son, Michael, is probably doing the same thing you are doing i.e. getting his money back from the CofS. Someone made a bad slipup with the copy-pasta.
     
  11. mysterysandwich

    mysterysandwich Patron with Honors

    Gunther Laws

    I remember Gunther too. He came up to Sydney from Melbourne for auditing and I had the honours. He was crusty but interesting nevertheless.


     
  12. Spirited

    Spirited Patron with Honors

    good observation panda, I didnt pick that up.
    good reply by liz too. be interesting to see what policy is apparently being applied
    wasnt there another "gunther" in sydney as well. youngish skinny guy who had been in the SO back in the 90's?
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2009
  13. Happy Days

    Happy Days Silver Meritorious Patron

    Thanks Spirited.

    Received a response from FSSO re: references see below.

    Dear Liz,
    Thank you and I see what you mean.
    The reference is spd 14 nov 1974RB and HCO PL 17 feb 71-1RA
    Per the above references in order to repay/refund you the FSSO needs a waiver from you.
    I haven't found the transfer from AOSH ANZO back into yr accounts and possibly you can nudge that from there. When it is done I would need the invoice from AOSH showing the transfer a done.
    Please let me know.
    Ml, Kea, Chaplain FSSO

    So there you go folks... sign your rights away because the Church say you should... and I won't be doing that.... the Church is delusional to say the least.:duh::duh:

    Stay tuned for the next instalment... :coolwink:
     
  14. HCObringOrder?

    HCObringOrder? Silver Meritorious Patron

    Exactly what I thought Panda.
    Copy that older Email and just change the amount.
    But you see, with 375 public per staff member you just do not get time to do things with Quality.
    Only Quantity.
    Also, sorry to hear about Mr. Laws and his wife.
    I hope the family can get their money back.
     
  15. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    I'd suggest writing back with something like:

    'I'll be glad to sign a receipt for any refunds paid, but I have no intention of 'waiving' any of my rights, including my right to a refund, nor is any refund contingent on anything but that right.'

    Zinj
     
  16. Mike Laws

    Mike Laws Patron Meritorious

    I am Gunther Laws' son.

    I was made aware of this post by a friend who was quite bothered by the nature of it and some comments made.

    This is the first time I have posted here under my name or otherwise, and post here under my own name knowing that this board is closely monitored by the Church and the following statements, together with public disclosure of my name, will attract attention and action and action through OSA all the way up to DM.

    I refuse to continue to live under oppressive circumstances where a child can not openly and directly defend and respect the memory of his parents.

    "One owes respect to the living; To the Dead one owes only the truth." Voltaire.

    "Truth alone will endure, all the rest will be swept away before the tide of time. I must continue to bear testimony to truth even if I am forsaken by all. Mine may today be a voice in the wilderness, but it will be heard when all other voices are silenced, if it is the voice of truth."
    Mahatma Gandhi in Basic Education.

    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, not does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." Mahatma Gandhi, in Young India.

    "In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell.

    The Church of Scientology takes tremendous creative liberty with the truth.

    Over the past few weeks, a good friend of mine, who happens to be a critic of the church, was emotionally and intellectually assaulted by the church who dug up his mothers death certificate, and is making broad public claims that he, at the age of 5, caused his mothers suicide.

    Now, I see, it seems that the church may be attacking the character of my father by making false claims that he had an illegitimate child. For 10 years the church has held me in an oppressive limbo, they don't want me amongst their ranks, they don't want me to leave and turn to the other side. They will not communicate to me directly, but threaten me through personal and business associates. Is this attack on my father a covert or veiled threat? I am done, I won't hide, I won't cower.

    I stand, in my own name, and tell my father’s story, to put context to the negatives some people comment on here, and to validate the positive.

    My father became a dedicated, if not slightly fanatical Scientologist before the birth of my sister and I. We grew up with the "reality" of space opera, conspiracy, hardship, discrimination, alienation, and the rest. But tempering this, we were also raised with the Scientologists belief that we can change our destiny, that we are responsible for our success and failure, that we can accomplish anything, which has served us well in our lives.

    Our mother, Erika, was not nearly as into Scientology as Gunther, for her, life was about her children and family providing the balance to our upbringing that allowed my sister to be as wonderful as she is, and me the functional dysfunctional person I am. Those kindest, best most human qualities in my sister and I come from my mother, the drive, obsession to learn and conquer, hard headed and politically incorrect parts of us come from Gunther. Fire and Ice.

    It wasn't until my early 30s, following over a decade in the Sea Org starting in Australia and passing through RTC, that I discovered understood why my father so obsessed with his and his families progress in Scientology, and its importance.

    Gunther was an orphan circa World War II in Germany, abandoned by his mother and placed in a cold and harsh baby farm until he was rescued by the German couple we knew as our grand parents. My father did not remember being touched, or hugged or loved until his adoptive mother. I still remember Gunther saying, in his German/Aussie pragmatism, "Nice isn't it, when no one picks up or holds or loves a baby". He was nearly 10 years old when he first experienced love from his new mother, and her sister who Gunther loved dearly.

    No sooner did he learn love, than the war turned and went badly for Germany. He had stories as a child, fingers gripped into a window sill in his parent’s apartment in Hamburg, looking out across the city, watching lines of bombs dropping across the city, the terror of his parents and environment.

    At the end of the war, things got worse. Starvation, hunger, he told me of riding his bike into the country looking for food that could not be obtained in the war ravaged city of Hamburg, finding a farmer than traded him a smoked ham for his bicycle, walking for almost a day back to his home, proudly presenting it to his mother who discovered on cutting it open, it was full of worms. His beloved aunt was shot in the leg by Russian soldiers and gang raped. His stories were not unique for that time, but they left lasting scars.

    Gunther wanted to make a new life, to get away, to explore and understand. Australia was looking for skilled white trades’ men, Australia having its own male ranks decimated by the war as well. If my memory serves me, Australia had a population of about 4 million, sent almost a million men to fight in the European theater. English Generals often considered men from the colonies as little more than cannon fodder, sending them into the most hazardous missions ... research Gallipoli if you care to know more. The young, male, Australian population was decimated.

    Gunther had finished an apprenticeship as a cabinet maker under his father and signed up to go to Australia, a recruiter/broker initially signed him up for the Snowy Mountain Scheme, the largest tunneling/mining project in the world at the time, diverting part of the largest river in Australia hundreds of miles to irrigate millions of acres of arid farm land.

    Unfortunately these recruiters were less than ethical, and Gunther found himself living in a dirt floored shack in Geelong, building homes for a fraction of standard wages, not speaking the language, and with no support other than other Germans. Being a German in post WWII Australia was not a very popular thing; help was not readily available, even if he did speak the language.

    Over a period of years, he managed to improve his lot. Wound up buying a small piece of land, and building himself a house out of scrap materials he salvaged from construction sites. This house was well built; it still exists today, and looks great. He, over years, achieved the Australian dream, and lived the peace and happiness and prosperity that Australia so generously bestowed to those who helped build it at that time.

    With the hardship in his life, Gunther was looking for something, he didn't want the horrors of his upbringing to come again, and he didn't want his children, his family, his wife, or anyone to experience what he did. He wanted to help build a better and saner world, Scientology, he believed was the future.

    Shortly before Gunther died, he told me how upset he was about what Scientology had become, that he didn't know if there was real benefit to having become OT, regretted that he had spent 40 years of his life and all of the families free money on it, apologized to my sister and I for allowing us to be recruited into the sea org as children.

    In subsequent posts I will describe his journey through Scientology and what resulted in his dying change of heart.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2009
  17. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you, Mike - from the bottom of my heart.:bighug:

    I suggest you also forward your father's story (and your own) onto Senator Nic Xenophon as well once you've completed them - the time of reckoning is truly here for this organization.

    I look forward to the rest of your story.:yes:
     
  18. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Yes thankyou Mike. I remember your father, but only as an aquaintance. Your heart felt story is much appreciated.

    How dare this cult try and dirty his name, and the story of your friend is shocking. Keep writing and putting the truth out there. You are not alone and it is appreciated.
     
  19. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator

    Wow. You just never know who is gunna surface here on ESMB.

    Welcome Mike. It's great to have you here.

    I'm not sure if we ever met. I was on staff in melbourne from 1994 - 2001 and met your father numerous times.

    I'm so glad you are here to set the record straight. I really look forward to reading your story.
     
  20. WrongPlaceRightTime

    WrongPlaceRightTime Patron Meritorious

    to Mike Laws

    You are most welcome here.