ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Why I didn't do OTVIII - my story part 2

Discussion in 'Stories From Inside Scientology' started by Mrs Pattycake, Jul 9, 2009.

View Users: View Users
  1. Mrs Pattycake

    Mrs Pattycake Patron with Honors

    HelluvaHoax just wrote a great thread about his experience on OTVII and the cog he had which ended it all for him. This was so similiar to my experience and my cog, that it inspired me to finish writing up the next part of my story. I had several people ask me "how" an OTVII could cognite decide to leave so quickly - well this explains how it was not so "quickly" but how it definately can happen.

    So here is following on from my previous thread ( From OTVII comp to Ex Scio in under one year )

    I had just attested to completing OT VII and was too pregnant to go onto OTVIII ( you have to stop auditing when you are 6 months pregnant ), so it was decided that I would return home and come back for OTVIII after the baby was born. Secretly, I was relieved that I did not, at this time, have to face yet another eligibility sec check for
    OTVIII :happydance:

    It was not just that my last 3 sec checks felt terribly overrun, and that each one had ground on and on ...for 2 or so intensives ( more than 25 hours each ) until I had been in tears and eventually “repaired” by cleaning up loads of false reads. No ... there was something else worrying me about it.:no:

    You see, when we originally bought our OTVIII “packages”, prior to GAT, it included 4 hours of eligibility sec check. Many years later, when some post GAT OTVII completions were actually happening, it was announced that the elig. check was now taking about 12.5 hours ( one intensive ).

    There was a special deal offered to all those who had already secured the 4 hours, for an additional $1,000 you could upgrade to an intensive - so we did that. :unsure:

    However, as the years wore on ... so did the the length of the sec checks ! By the time I was ready to go to do OTVIII - the technical estimate for the elig. sec check was now a whooping 25 to 50 hours !!! ( between 2 and 4 intensives ). And ... a few close friends who had recently done it, told me that almost no one made it in 2 ints – it was more like 3 to 4 !!! :nervous:

    WTF ??? 4 ints – that is how long it took me to do the whole of OTV ... and this was JUST the eligibility step for the SOLO level of OTVIII .:no:

    It did not make sense !

    Unlike me, most people would have been to Flag, done their regular 6 month sec check, then the OTVII EP check and then a leaving the Flag base sec check ... before going immediately to the ship - to do yet another 4 intensives ( 50 hour ) of sec check !!!

    I wondered what the hell was going on ??? What was all this sec checking about ? :confused2:

    Whenever I had questioned the increase in length of sec checks I was shown an LRH reference about how, as one goes further up the Bridge and has more case gain then more overts come to light. Thus, it was inferred by the registrars and D of P's, that longer sec checks were expected and were a sign that you were progressing and making case gain !:duh:

    But as I progressed through to the end of the OTVII, it made less and less sense to me. In these sec checks you were not expected to get off “whole track” or earlier this lifetime overts, NO... they wanted recent OVERTS, overts you had committed since your last 6 month check !!!:confused2:

    Well, quite frankly, I was not committing that many overts. I was always a bit of a goody goody anyway and now I was being more diligent than ever ... I felt that if I was to attain the true “Cause Over Life” I would have to confront the actual isness of every situation – so as to fully as-is things. I knew “honesty is case gain” - so I tried my utmost to be as ethical as possible and whenever I did have critical thoughts I had searched for my “overts” and got them off in my solo sessions , as was expected – so I really truly felt there was nothing much left to handle .

    Further, on this level you are dealing with the upper percentile of Scientology's public - supposedly the elite, the most upstat, most ethical beings on the planet – except for the SO of course , so how come we were being treated as if we had so many PT overts to get off ? This conundrum kept whirling in my head . :unsure:
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2009
  2. Mrs Pattycake

    Mrs Pattycake Patron with Honors

    Before leaving Flag, I had to fill out my “life history” - this was needed to see if I “qualified” for the Freewinds . I had heard about these but never done one before – it is a huge questionnaire with hundreds of questions about all aspects of your life. It includes your drug history – every drug you have ever taken , including all medical and dental drugs from your childhood through to present time.

    It also asked loads of questions about any family connections to psychs, media etc and all ethics handlings you have ever had. You also had to list all of your Scio training

    Then you had to list all of your “participation” ( how you helped to expand Scientology ). They wanted specifics - what you did when, where and what were the results.

    This was then looked over by the MAA to see if there were any “outpoints”- fortunately mine looked fine. I had heard of some folk needing to go home and do additional participation before being allowed onto VIII.

    It seemed odd that someone who had devoted so much time, energy and money to getting this far up the Bridge would NEED to be checked out like this, especially after all of those expensive sec checks which had very similar questions ! :omg:

    And remember this was just the first step to be eligible to “go” to the ship – then there would be the
    2 to 4 intensive sec check and resultant ethics handlings when you got there ! It was all kind of intimidating and definitely did not set the scene for a very pleasant experience . The regs kept assuring me that folk were having blow out wins on these OTVIII elig checks and that the success stories they wrote were incredible , praising the sec check as much as OTVIII itself ! I DID NOT BUY IT - and I told them so on many times:no: !

    Gone were my naive ideas of “cruising around on a luxury liner” on some sort of a pleasurable holiday . I knew OTVIII would be in its own way, just as demanding as OTVII . In fact one of my friends who had recently completed OTVIII , took great pleasure in telling me that “the ethics level on the ship was a whole new level above Flag”. :omg:

    I guess I was beginning to wonder about the true result of OT VIII – the first “real” OT level and why was there all this focus on ethics.

    Anyway – I agreed that I would come back for OTVIII once the baby was a few months old. To be honest, in my heart, I knew that I was not likely to want to travel around the world with my new born baby to let some stranger look after him for 4 weeks whilst I spent day and night getting through OTVIII . We had waited 10 years to have another kid after our difficult situation with our daughter – I knew I would want to be at home enjoying every moment with our extended families .

    Well – Jack was born in February and to our relief, he was happy and healthy. We were ecstatic !!! Traveling back to Flag was the last thing I was thinking of. I was beginning to think that it might be best for hubby to go to Flag next and try to finish VII – then he could go on to OTVIII. Perhaps that would inspire me – he could come home and tell me how great it all was. (As I mentioned in my prevoius thread) I had started to have these strange dreams about OTVIII – where I opened the pack and in LRH's handwriting it said “ Ha, ha, ha ... it's all been a big joke ! ” . Whilst I “knew” that this was not the case – I was having a hell of a lot of trouble getting excited about it.

    By March, I had to go to my daughter's next therapy training course. This meant being away from home for 10 days . I took both Courtney and Jack to Sydney whilst hubby stayed at the farm . My entire family and two girlfriends, both with disabled kids, all came and stayed with us, helping me with my daughter and the new baby. It was a totally enjoyable – but after 10 days I was pretty tired – breast feeding and looking after a new baby, learning new therapy exercises, then there was the 9 hours drive home !

    I arrived home totally exhausted at 11pm. - we got the kids to bed and dumped the luggage. Then hubby started to tell me about this group called Anonymous that had been attacking the Church. I thought to myself – “WTF ??? doesn't he know I am exhausted ?” What is he telling me about this for now !!! I acked him and he continued – Christ he was on a roll !!!. I told him we had had attacks before and the Church had always handled them, so not to worry. Very seriously he said “ NO, this is different , there is stuff I need to tell you – some of the things they are saying are true”. Some how I managed in my exhausted state to ack him well enough to stop the conversation that night .

    The next day he began where he had left off – downloading a lot of information he had read on the internet. Initially, he had been asked by someone at CCHR ANZO to go on the net and respond to a comment Mark Hanna ( spokesperson for Scientology ) had made about Scientology . Hubby did that in a pro scio manner and was surprised at some of the responses he got. This started him pulling the string – to see what the hell was behind this.

    We had been in Scientology for 20 + years and knew that there was “some untrue and bad things” on the net about Scientology – so being good little boys and girls we had never looked and had very easily brushed off any family or friends comments about it, in the past .

    However, what hubby discovered was, there was an overwhelming, monumental amount of information about Scientology on the internet !!! This included the actual, supposedly highly confidential OT levels, which we had guarded with briefcases, locks, alarms and security services for years ! It was a huge shock !!!

    What was more incredible was that there were hundreds of personal stories from people who were ex-scios, many of whom had been on staff and in the SO , a lot of them were highly trained . Even more incredible, some were ex- Int members – the upper echelon of Scientologists – they were all revealing their experiences with Scientology.

    Many of the stories were just terrible, exposing some gross human rights abuses or incredible harm the Church had perpetuated. What was worse was that these stories were ringing true – how had we not noticed these things before ? But ... we had noticed some of them . Then why had we brushed them aside ? Well sometimes we hadn't , we had tried to get some of it handled, had written it up etc, but then we had run into a brick wall. Then why hadn't we fought harder and done more to correct these things ? Why ????

    Hubby, not one to do anything half arsed – started to read... and read ...and read. Within a few days he had read all the major critics books. He would stop every few hours and download to me – I would drive him half mad playing the devils advocate – “ how do we know that is not just made up ?”. Having an almost photographic memory, he was able to cross reference stories and data, jotting down new names to “google” in his quest to research the subject and get to the truth.

    Within a very short space of time, we were able to conclude and have verified, that there were many things seriously wrong with the Church. And as we sat on the sofa discussing this, we both felt an enormous sense of relief , as we realised we were discovering and confronting the truth and we were getting ourselves out of the trap we had woven around ourselves for so many years. It was amazing – although we did not have the full picture we already knew that we would never look at or act in the same way towards Scientology again. We both felt free – free to reach out and find out, free to decide and choose – and we knew we would not be choosing the path that the Church had “carefully tapped out” for us – it was a very good feeling - it was in fact a huge “release”.

    And shortly thereafter,... the penny dropped – the reason for continual ethics handlings on the OTVII and VIII's

    As you know “ Ethics” is used “to handle counter intention and other intention”. Once these are “removed”, ethics is stopped ... So if ethics was being used to handle these things, what were the counter and other intentions ?

    I had a huge cog ... it was ANY OTHER INTENTION that anyone had, that was other than the SO's COMMAND INTENTION !!!:omg:

    You see ... as far as the dedicated SO were concerned, I was not one of the most ethical beings on the planet – I was not in the SO ( nor was I on staff ) - further, I was not devoting every single waking hour to the expansion of Scientology like they were !!! What they wanted removed were any other ideas and activities that were cutting across this path – they wanted to get rid of the things that I was interested in, that did not align to Command Intention - the purpose was to make me one of them !!! That was what it was all about !!! :omg:

    When you read the rave success stories of OTVIII's you'll see that this is exactly right – they all rave about how they are now going off to boom their area in some major way – devoting their life to the cause even MORE than before !!!:duh:

    I just thought OMG !!! I really don't want THAT !!! And at that point I knew I was finished with my journey up the Bridge and would have no regrets about that. :yes:

    You get to the top of the Bridge to became exactly what the SO wants – a diligent, unquestioning, industrious Scientologist , whose main aim in life is to forward Scientology in every means possible. Ummm – this is not my idea of Total Freedom or Spiritual Enlightenment. :grouch:

    Helluvahoax hit the nail on the head - you get to the top of the Bridge to become a Scientology slave !!!:thumbsup:

    I wonder how many OTVII's and VIII's have also had this cognition – I know quite a few who have. It makes me wonder if the Freewinds will ever be able to release OTIX and X - how many are left who want it ??? :no:
  3. ILived1984!

    ILived1984! Patron with Honors

    Ms. Pattycake, I thoroughly enjoyed your post. How amazing!

    As a former SO member I can confirm what you say about out ethics as true. Ethics handlings being used on counter and OTHER intentions and yes, other intentions being anything other than command intention...or in reality, DMs intentions. I watched the choker collars increase in intensity through the years to where I started seeing Scns getting in ethics trouble for THOUGHTS. That's right, thought crimes. You may have run into that while on VII.

    I'm so happy you and your husband escaped the clutches of doom! :thumbsup: :happydance:
  4. anon2487

    anon2487 Patron with Honors

    Really interesting write up! Thanks.
  5. Illegal Alien

    Illegal Alien Patron with Honors

    :clap: :clap: :clap:
    I had looked at it in a similar way and watched as a family member spent and spent on OTVII and all I ever heard from him was sec check sec checks and more sec checks and when his C/S called it was yes sir three bags full SIR.
    I am so glad I cut my journey after OTV.
    I to got onto the net found data from Ex Scio's and things that had happened and I realized that the pure fact that I have LOOKED:omg: would add tens of thousands of dollars onto my bridge cost for sec checks and I would probably not even get through my elig as I had done the unspeakable act of LOOK.
    How is it that that could be unacceptable in the eyes of Scio.
    An OTVII once said to me that she would have to join staff after OTVIII saying that how could you be a true OT and not join the cause of Scio.
    That freaked me out? I would not join staff and I remembered seeing an event where an OTVIII was giving his wins on the Freewinds and said he would join the Sea Org and if my memory serves me well DM said "Now that's a product"
    So if I do not wish to join staff am I a lesser product? That question troubled me for a while.

    But hey after LOOKING FOR MYSELF I made the decision to leave Scio as per my thread THE SIMPLICITY OF SCIENTOLOGY.

    Well done on spotting what was happening on your levels.:thumbsup:
  6. Twin A

    Twin A Patron with Honors

    Wow, thanks for writing this.

    The C of S is apparently asking many of it's richer paritioners for large sums of money to "handle Anonymous." But what the heck is money going to do? It won't change the truth, that there are valid reasons to protest the C of S and until THAT changes, there will always be protestors. I'm so glad that you two have seen that the Emperor has no clothes. There are many others I wish would do the same.
  7. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    very interesting. I had noticed in the OT "wins" that pooks
    has posted on the board, that there is a mixture of insipid vague drivel
    about things they should have attained at TR O-7, not OT VII or VII,
    plus these days, more and more statements which say that they are
    command intention entities. They give that as "wins".
  8. Blue Spirit

    Blue Spirit Silver Meritorious Patron


    The simplicity of the truth is that the Know-To-Mystery Scale

    goes from the negative side to the positive side at LOOK, so

    no matter what there is to look at NO ONE could possibly make

    it up to KNOW and actually BE an OT while inhibiting himself from


    Could it get ANY more SIMPLE than that ?? :eyeroll:

    Also LRH says that one of the oldest tricks in the Universe is to

    tell someone that it is not OK or safe to Look over there. :thumbsup:


    I assure you LRH wants people to go up the Bridge outside the Church.
    He knows what is going on.

    BE STUPID, DON'T LOOK, BE REASONABLE With the Church's Suppression of your beingness, power, integrity, and future. :angry:
  9. Opter

    Opter Silver Meritorious Patron

    That is exactly what my husband said when he was on OT VII - that the aim of the upper OT levels is to make you a slave to Scientology.-

  10. Once bitten

    Once bitten Patron Meritorious

    Thanks for taking the time to write this up Mrs Pattycake. I hope you are enjoying your new-found freedom from sec-checks and just being 'you'. Much love to you and your family
  11. Woggin' out

    Woggin' out Patron with Honors

    so gald you continued your story

    Thanks for finishing your story Mrs.Pattycake! I really enjoyed it! You are right. A "bird" very close to me says that is the EP of OTVlll,,, a slave to the CO$! So glad you and Feral got out and are now really free and enjoying your family!!
  12. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    An OT VIII has found out who she/he is not (her/himself) and can now find out who she/he is ..Ron's Slave.
  13. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    Thanks for finishing your story Mrs. P. It seems you and your husband EP'ed "Truth Revealed" without all of the "mindf***" of extensive, unnecessary sec-checking.

    I thought the goal was totally free beings.

    Looks like you made it. :)
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2009
  14. supafreak

    supafreak Patron Meritorious

    Thank you for sharing your story, Mrs P! I'm glad you and Feral are out! :happydance:
  15. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    Except that he's dead. the death certificate.
  16. Reasonable

    Reasonable Silver Meritorious Patron

    Greay story. I always thought that once I did OT8 i would have perfect whole life recall be able to drop the body at will and pick up a new one at cause. If that were the case then why not devote the rest of your next billion years?

    So when I saw these people becoming part of the casue it would make me think that they have achieved the product.

    That is why it made sense to me.

    But the closer you get the more you realize that you are not even close to that as a product. But you are more likely to find your keys when you lose them.

    I think for $250,000 I deserve a not so hidden standard.

  17. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Dear Mrs. Pattycake,

    A truly wonderful post!

    Your story's honesty is equally unmistakable, powerful & illuminating!

    I have begun to realize that the path taking one OUT OF Scientology produces vastly greater gains and understanding about life than the Sisyphus-like journey within it purportedly delivers!

    It's endlessly fascinating to see how easily one was fooled, trapped or converted into a slave who volunteered success stories celebrating each occasion of greater servitude.

    Virtually EVERYTHING that was held to be sacred truth was found (later) to be, in fact, the complete & absolute, polar OPPOSITE! I suppose one could be extremely upset about such an outrageous conflict. I actually (now) find it wildly amusing that such a profoundly woven deception could be believed to contain cosmic truth...when it was merely a carnival huckster selling immortality in a bottle (or, perhaps, more exactly in a pair of cans...)

    It's how I laugh about this grand adventure gone bad. Looking back I can only chuckle with admiration and say: "That was one HelluvaHoax!!!" hahahahahahahahahahahaha

    The fascinating search for truth in life (any truth, large or small) seems to take joyous flight when the doors of deception are simultaneously opened wide and truth is examined right along side of it dark counterparts...blatant lies, brilliant propaganda & brainwashing. It is a sharp cold wind that sometimes whips reality into view, but boy, you sure know you are awake when it hits you in the face! lol.

    I am honored that you feel anything I wrote about "The Slave Cognition" nudged you to complete this next part of your story. Likewise, you have inspired me to put to words an idea about "The Real Purpose Of Ethics" which has been brewing for the past several months. I thank you for that! (I might however give it a fancier or funkier title in order to trick people into looking at it! After Scn, I am a fully hatted con man! lol)

    My very best wishes to you and Feral to discover many beautiful moments in life, wherever they may be hidden!

    Last edited: Jul 9, 2009
  18. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thanks Mrs P - glad you and Feral made that step and then helped myself and others to get freedom as well.:thumbsup:
  19. Carmel

    Carmel Crusader

    Good on ya, Vic, for more reasons than one! :thumbsup:
  20. Good twin

    Good twin Floater

    Thanks Vicki. Great story! :thumbsup: