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Why I didn't do OTVIII - my story part 2

CherryTree

Patron
The fisrt thing that came to my mind after reading your story, and the first few comments, is a novel by George Orwell called 1984, I'm sure many of us know it. The most significant similarity between Scientology and this book is the thought crime. You are punished for things you think not just do. And it is really really sad. If someone is interested in the book I recommend it very much.
 

chipgallo

Patron Meritorious
YAY Chip!

You should read the Christmas letter from Mrs Pattycake and Feral.

That would be a great one to put up!

Check out the OP of this thread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=9221

Thanks for the tip!

For me, Vicky and Mick's work with their respective children is inspirational and of interest to a community of care givers who face similar challenges every day. Scientology is by organizational stricture a bit player in this story, except when they go out of their way to block dissemination of wins from places like the Better Baby Institute (which happened in the early 1980's).
 

Mrs Pattycake

Patron with Honors
Hey Chip,

I am just about to put up a new thread and thought I'd catch up on any comments I had not answered on my previous one. Thanks so much for the validation !

By the way, the program we did with Courtney for 5 years intensively and got her so much of the way there was from the Institutes For the Achievement of Human Potential IAHP. They are the same folk that run the Better Baby Institute.

The Better Baby is for "well" kids and the IAHP is for the "hurt" kids. They run Better Baby to help subsidise the costs for IAHP to help the parents of hurt kids. The Doman family run it and they (and their staff) are some of the most wonderful people on the planet.

Interestingly, I am just starting to write a book along with two other girl friends - we all meet through IAHP and our lives have interwinned in an amazing way since then. We are going to each write our own bit and then mix them together on a timeline as our paths cross.

We thought of this a few years ago but I always kind of had
back off as the CofS and the tech would have to feature quite heavily in my story as it was such a huge part of our lives - and it was not always a positive thing. Now I feel I can write freely and and looking forward to starting it now.

Our idea was that it would be a fun and inspirational read for others - our working title is "The blonde, the brunette and the redhead." ( I'm the blondie ).

So ... see how we go with it . But you comm got to me just as I had made the decision to do it ! :whistling:

.









Thanks for the tip!

For me, Vicky and Mick's work with their respective children is inspirational and of interest to a community of care givers who face similar challenges every day. Scientology is by organizational stricture a bit player in this story, except when they go out of their way to block dissemination of wins from places like the Better Baby Institute (which happened in the early 1980's).
 

karlo97

Patron
I left on OT7, and when I decided to do it my way, I audited out all ARC breaks with the FLAg reges and all the outness over there, those were one of my best sessions.....if I would have done it or realized it as long I was in ( I did not realize it, because it was"THETA" they ordered me ) they would have called me back......slavery is the right description, not many realize it, so they do not approach it in their auditing..... of course I felt the outness lomg before, thought, I am on the wrong way...bullshit, internet opened my eyes,too.....when I started reading ( afraid of consequences in the beginning ) I red everything I yould get....and then I had the right picture...big relief for me !!!!!
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
Many of the stories were just terrible, exposing some gross human rights abuses or incredible harm the Church had perpetuated. What was worse was that these stories were ringing true – how had we not noticed these things before ? But ... we had noticed some of them . Then why had we brushed them aside ? Well sometimes we hadn't , we had tried to get some of it handled, had written it up etc, but then we had run into a brick wall. Then why hadn't we fought harder and done more to correct these things ? Why ????

As our friend Tory says, you flip untill you can't flip anymore. That is when you find your way out.

Good For you Mrs.Pattycake :happydance:
 

JinLing

Patron
I had this realized the same thing as you basically on a claydemo i had to do on otherintentions and counterintensions. Oh gosh.. it was so hard to cope with the result. I basically got out of it that the only right intention was to be a SO member, which of course i couldnt since i had taken lsd in the past. But just the idea. I stayed anyway after this for quite some time, but it was an uncomfortable feeling. And it felt a bit strange that all i was told about LRH´s life, all the things he had done in his life, the things he said about arts and so on, why was that ok for him but otherintention if i wanted to do it?
 

Feral

Rogue male
I had this realized the same thing as you basically on a claydemo i had to do on otherintentions and counterintensions. Oh gosh.. it was so hard to cope with the result. I basically got out of it that the only right intention was to be a SO member, which of course i couldnt since i had taken lsd in the past. But just the idea. I stayed anyway after this for quite some time, but it was an uncomfortable feeling. And it felt a bit strange that all i was told about LRH´s life, all the things he had done in his life, the things he said about arts and so on, why was that ok for him but otherintention if i wanted to do it?

Hey, JinLing, welcome!

Have you ever thought what they wanted you to do *was* the other intention?

Other intention and counter intention are a matter of viewpoint and purpose.
 

Chess

Patron with Honors
You get to the top of the Bridge to became exactly what the SO wants – a diligent, unquestioning, industrious Scientologist , whose main aim in life is to forward Scientology in every means possible. Ummm – this is not my idea of Total Freedom or Spiritual Enlightenment. :grouch:

:

Good post and well spotted.
 

JinLing

Patron
Hey, JinLing, welcome!

Have you ever thought what they wanted you to do *was* the other intention?

Other intention and counter intention are a matter of viewpoint and purpose.

thanks :)
Yes for sure it was like that. But i didnt see that then. I thought something was wrong with me that thought my "otherintentions" were important...
 

Stephanie

Patron with Honors
Mrs. Pattycake,

Love, love, love your stories. You should be a writer if your not already in your 'real' life.

Fantastic stories, and glad to know the OTs aren't worth it up at the top. I"ll be keeping my $$$ to myself.

steph:happydance:
 

Lohan2008

Gold Meritorious Patron
hugs

Good to see you posting Patty :hug:

some insight huh ?


I had started to have these strange dreams about OTVIII – where I opened the pack and in LRH's handwriting it said “ Ha, ha, ha ... it's all been a big joke ! ”
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Great story and exposure of what is going on!

Mrs. Pattycake - Great story and I am not using "great" in a banal, trite manner but I really mean Great!! Your story answered many many things about which I was curious and wanted to know but felt that I would never know.

I finished OT V and thought I pretty much knew what OT VI and OT VII were about and had some ideas about OT VIII. What always bothered me the most about these levels was, "Why all the intensives of sec checks, over and over?" It just did not seem to make sense that beings going as far in Scientology as you went would continually load up with new overts despite the fact that they were always solo auditing and could easily handle their overts in session on a daily basis. The best I could figure was that the endless sec checking was donw only for monetary reasons to generate more income since the number of new people doing upper service was declining, they had to continually sell the small number of public they had new services over and over to generate their income.

You showed that while there is undoubtedly some of this phenomena present, this is not the main reason for all the sec checks. Their explanation that as you go up the bridge further and further, you pull in doing more and more overts and that more overts is an indicator that you are making progress is just absurd. As one proceeds up the bridge, the logical outcome is that the number of overts committed drops much lower. What they are suggesting would be akin, in the WOG world, to saying that someone such as Mother Teresa who was more and more selfeless and dedicated to helping others as she progressed up the line in her Church, was actually committing more overts as her willingness to help others increased. Of course that whole premise is totally absurd!

I could see that their end phenomena was to get everyone who went up the bridge to eventually devote ALMOST their whole lives to assisting Scientology to grow but I was not able to "connect the dots" to see that they considered a person unethical unless they joined the Sea Org. Talk about someone enforcing his or her reality upon someone else!

Well done to your Husband for being able to spot truth on the internet when he saw it and well done to you for thoroughly checking out the data and recognizing that it was true and taking the steps necessary to leave C of S. Now, those actions were really and truly what you did that was most Ethical! Being an ex Sea Org member myself, I am trying to figure out the "official" C of S position on ex Sea Org. Since we already were in and had the opportunity to be one of the elite and then we then left, we must indeed be considered extra slimey in their eyes. They will still gladly take our money in payment for services but behind their smiliing faces when they do so, many of them must really despise us. The only policy I ever encountered concening ex Sea Org is that read to me by Mike Mauer when I was on my routing form out of the Apollo. He read that LRH said that anyone who leaves the Sea Org is either insane or incompetent. Naturally, any such comments by LRH were not made broad public issue due to their bad public relations connotations.

Thanks again for your illuminating post and all that you have done for others by releasing this data.
Lkwdblds aka Lakey
 
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lkwdblds

Crusader
New awarenesses on this topic

Mrs. Pattycake -
Your topic began swiming around my mind this morning while I was driving to work and I had some major new awareness (cognitions) on the topic. What we have here seems to me to be a very gross distortion of the Application of Ethics by a person or persons who do not actually understand the basic principles of Ethics, or Scientology style Ethics and are practicing a renegade, bastardized version of what they perceive Scientology Ethics to be.

Ethics is supposed to be a personal matter that a person has to put in on themselves. It is not supposed to be enforced on a person from outside the person. Also, Scientology Management believes that no person really has his or her Ethics in unless they join the Sea Org.

What's going on is something like this:
1. Ethics must be put in by a person by himself or herself.
2. No Scientologist is Ethical unless they join the Sea Org.
3. Auditing won't bite or take hold unless a person's Ethics are in.
4. As a person gets more and more aware, they commit more out ethics.
5. We can not come out and tell a person directly that their Ethics are out.
6. A Person should not receive auditing while they are out Ethics per #3.
7. We must do something to change and help the person but not auditing.
8. Therefore it follows that we must Sec Check the person.
9. Sec checking is not auditing but it will help a person put in his own Ethics.
10. When a person puts some Ethics in then he can get the next higher level.
11. After #10, then more sec checking must be done.
Steps 10. and 11. are done leapfrog style until the person gets to the top of the Bridge at OT VIII, this is kept up until they cognite that they must join the Sea Org in order to be fully Ethical. If they do not cognite on this then they are given more sec checking and this is continued until they finally see that they must join the Sea Org. A further benefit to the Org of all of this is the stat and monetary fall outs of the Org delivering all the sec checking. This is a win - win situation where the person gets more ethical and goes up the bridge while the Org is rewarded with high stats and high income.

I think that point #4 among some others is the most flagrantly incorrect point. A person could just be told that they are out ethics by not joining the Sea Org or they could be required to do one clay demo showing why to be ethical one must join the Sea Org and another clay demo showing how one can try and still be ethical and yet not join the Sea Org.
If the wording of the demos was phrased properly, the OT could be made to cognite that the second demo was not possible to make because the premise behind the demo was illogical. The second demos could always be flunked by the supervisor until the person agreed with the Org's desired result.

Thus, a couple of clay demos like this could achieve the same effect as having the person spend tens of thousands of dollars without costing the person huge sums of money plus taking up a lot of the person's time. A fair Org which delivered in abundance, which LRH states is the best exchange, should have a fiduciary responsiblity to make sure a parishioner's money is spent the most effective way possible and should not be trying to take all the person's money on a whim, true or untrue, that the person is unethical unless they see things the Org's way! Lkwdblds
 
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ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
What if he did? How would he respond?
It was 9 years ago that xenusdad made that post. At that time I believe his brother was in the Sea Org but now I think he's out.

However, the fact is that no self-respecting scientologist is going to spend time reading a story about how someone came to leave scientology. They would run a mile from it.
 

Onkel

Patron
HelluvaHoax just wrote a great thread about his experience on OTVII and the cog he had which ended it all for him. This was so similiar to my experience and my cog, that it inspired me to finish writing up the next part of my story. I had several people ask me "how" an OTVII could cognite decide to leave so quickly - well this explains how it was not so "quickly" but how it definately can happen.

So here is following on from my previous thread ( From OTVII comp to Ex Scio in under one year )


I had just attested to completing OT VII and was too pregnant to go onto OTVIII ( you have to stop auditing when you are 6 months pregnant ), so it was decided that I would return home and come back for OTVIII after the baby was born. Secretly, I was relieved that I did not, at this time, have to face yet another eligibility sec check for
OTVIII :happydance:

It was not just that my last 3 sec checks felt terribly overrun, and that each one had ground on and on ...for 2 or so intensives ( more than 25 hours each ) until I had been in tears and eventually “repaired” by cleaning up loads of false reads. No ... there was something else worrying me about it.:no:

You see, when we originally bought our OTVIII “packages”, prior to GAT, it included 4 hours of eligibility sec check. Many years later, when some post GAT OTVII completions were actually happening, it was announced that the elig. check was now taking about 12.5 hours ( one intensive ).

There was a special deal offered to all those who had already secured the 4 hours, for an additional $1,000 you could upgrade to an intensive - so we did that. :unsure:

However, as the years wore on ... so did the the length of the sec checks ! By the time I was ready to go to do OTVIII - the technical estimate for the elig. sec check was now a whooping 25 to 50 hours !!! ( between 2 and 4 intensives ). And ... a few close friends who had recently done it, told me that almost no one made it in 2 ints – it was more like 3 to 4 !!! :nervous:

WTF ??? 4 ints – that is how long it took me to do the whole of OTV ... and this was JUST the eligibility step for the SOLO level of OTVIII .:no:

It did not make sense !

Unlike me, most people would have been to Flag, done their regular 6 month sec check, then the OTVII EP check and then a leaving the Flag base sec check ... before going immediately to the ship - to do yet another 4 intensives ( 50 hour ) of sec check !!!

I wondered what the hell was going on ??? What was all this sec checking about ? :confused2:

Whenever I had questioned the increase in length of sec checks I was shown an LRH reference about how, as one goes further up the Bridge and has more case gain then more overts come to light. Thus, it was inferred by the registrars and D of P's, that longer sec checks were expected and were a sign that you were progressing and making case gain !:duh:

But as I progressed through to the end of the OTVII, it made less and less sense to me. In these sec checks you were not expected to get off “whole track” or earlier this lifetime overts, NO... they wanted recent OVERTS, overts you had committed since your last 6 month check !!!:confused2:

Well, quite frankly, I was not committing that many overts. I was always a bit of a goody goody anyway and now I was being more diligent than ever ... I felt that if I was to attain the true “Cause Over Life” I would have to confront the actual isness of every situation – so as to fully as-is things. I knew “honesty is case gain” - so I tried my utmost to be as ethical as possible and whenever I did have critical thoughts I had searched for my “overts” and got them off in my solo sessions , as was expected – so I really truly felt there was nothing much left to handle .

Further, on this level you are dealing with the upper percentile of Scientology's public - supposedly the elite, the most upstat, most ethical beings on the planet – except for the SO of course , so how come we were being treated as if we had so many PT overts to get off ? This conundrum kept whirling in my head . :unsure:

Where can I find his thread? Thanks for writing your story! :)
 

phenomanon

Canyon
Before leaving Flag, I had to fill out my “life history” - this was needed to see if I “qualified” for the Freewinds . I had heard about these but never done one before – it is a huge questionnaire with hundreds of questions about all aspects of your life. It includes your drug history – every drug you have ever taken , including all medical and dental drugs from your childhood through to present time.

It also asked loads of questions about any family connections to psychs, media etc and all ethics handlings you have ever had. You also had to list all of your Scio training

Then you had to list all of your “participation” ( how you helped to expand Scientology ). They wanted specifics - what you did when, where and what were the results.

This was then looked over by the MAA to see if there were any “outpoints”- fortunately mine looked fine. I had heard of some folk needing to go home and do additional participation before being allowed onto VIII.

It seemed odd that someone who had devoted so much time, energy and money to getting this far up the Bridge would NEED to be checked out like this, especially after all of those expensive sec checks which had very similar questions ! :omg:

And remember this was just the first step to be eligible to “go” to the ship – then there would be the
2 to 4 intensive sec check and resultant ethics handlings when you got there ! It was all kind of intimidating and definitely did not set the scene for a very pleasant experience . The regs kept assuring me that folk were having blow out wins on these OTVIII elig checks and that the success stories they wrote were incredible , praising the sec check as much as OTVIII itself ! I DID NOT BUY IT - and I told them so on many times:no: !



Gone were my naive ideas of “cruising around on a luxury liner” on some sort of a pleasurable holiday . I knew OTVIII would be in its own way, just as demanding as OTVII . In fact one of my friends who had recently completed OTVIII , took great pleasure in telling me that “the ethics level on the ship was a whole new level above Flag”. :omg:


I guess I was beginning to wonder about the true result of OT VIII – the first “real” OT level and why was there all this focus on ethics.



Anyway – I agreed that I would come back for OTVIII once the baby was a few months old. To be honest, in my heart, I knew that I was not likely to want to travel around the world with my new born baby to let some stranger look after him for 4 weeks whilst I spent day and night getting through OTVIII . We had waited 10 years to have another kid after our difficult situation with our daughter – I knew I would want to be at home enjoying every moment with our extended families .


Well – Jack was born in February and to our relief, he was happy and healthy. We were ecstatic !!! Traveling back to Flag was the last thing I was thinking of. I was beginning to think that it might be best for hubby to go to Flag next and try to finish VII – then he could go on to OTVIII. Perhaps that would inspire me – he could come home and tell me how great it all was. (As I mentioned in my prevoius thread) I had started to have these strange dreams about OTVIII – where I opened the pack and in LRH's handwriting it said “ Ha, ha, ha ... it's all been a big joke ! ” . Whilst I “knew” that this was not the case – I was having a hell of a lot of trouble getting excited about it.


By March, I had to go to my daughter's next therapy training course. This meant being away from home for 10 days . I took both Courtney and Jack to Sydney whilst hubby stayed at the farm . My entire family and two girlfriends, both with disabled kids, all came and stayed with us, helping me with my daughter and the new baby. It was a totally enjoyable – but after 10 days I was pretty tired – breast feeding and looking after a new baby, learning new therapy exercises, then there was the 9 hours drive home !

I arrived home totally exhausted at 11pm. - we got the kids to bed and dumped the luggage. Then hubby started to tell me about this group called Anonymous that had been attacking the Church. I thought to myself – “WTF ??? doesn't he know I am exhausted ?” What is he telling me about this for now !!! I acked him and he continued – Christ he was on a roll !!!. I told him we had had attacks before and the Church had always handled them, so not to worry. Very seriously he said “ NO, this is different , there is stuff I need to tell you – some of the things they are saying are true”. Some how I managed in my exhausted state to ack him well enough to stop the conversation that night .

The next day he began where he had left off – downloading a lot of information he had read on the internet. Initially, he had been asked by someone at CCHR ANZO to go on the net and respond to a comment Mark Hanna ( spokesperson for Scientology ) had made about Scientology . Hubby did that in a pro scio manner and was surprised at some of the responses he got. This started him pulling the string – to see what the hell was behind this.

We had been in Scientology for 20 + years and knew that there was “some untrue and bad things” on the net about Scientology – so being good little boys and girls we had never looked and had very easily brushed off any family or friends comments about it, in the past .

However, what hubby discovered was, there was an overwhelming, monumental amount of information about Scientology on the internet !!! This included the actual, supposedly highly confidential OT levels, which we had guarded with briefcases, locks, alarms and security services for years ! It was a huge shock !!!

What was more incredible was that there were hundreds of personal stories from people who were ex-scios, many of whom had been on staff and in the SO , a lot of them were highly trained . Even more incredible, some were ex- Int members – the upper echelon of Scientologists – they were all revealing their experiences with Scientology.

Many of the stories were just terrible, exposing some gross human rights abuses or incredible harm the Church had perpetuated. What was worse was that these stories were ringing true – how had we not noticed these things before ? But ... we had noticed some of them . Then why had we brushed them aside ? Well sometimes we hadn't , we had tried to get some of it handled, had written it up etc, but then we had run into a brick wall. Then why hadn't we fought harder and done more to correct these things ? Why ????


Hubby, not one to do anything half arsed – started to read... and read ...and read. Within a few days he had read all the major critics books. He would stop every few hours and download to me – I would drive him half mad playing the devils advocate – “ how do we know that is not just made up ?”. Having an almost photographic memory, he was able to cross reference stories and data, jotting down new names to “google” in his quest to research the subject and get to the truth.


Within a very short space of time, we were able to conclude and have verified, that there were many things seriously wrong with the Church. And as we sat on the sofa discussing this, we both felt an enormous sense of relief , as we realised we were discovering and confronting the truth and we were getting ourselves out of the trap we had woven around ourselves for so many years. It was amazing – although we did not have the full picture we already knew that we would never look at or act in the same way towards Scientology again. We both felt free – free to reach out and find out, free to decide and choose – and we knew we would not be choosing the path that the Church had “carefully tapped out” for us – it was a very good feeling - it was in fact a huge “release”.
:happydance:

And shortly thereafter,... the penny dropped – the reason for continual ethics handlings on the OTVII and VIII's

As you know “ Ethics” is used “to handle counter intention and other intention”. Once these are “removed”, ethics is stopped ... So if ethics was being used to handle these things, what were the counter and other intentions ?

I had a huge cog ... it was ANY OTHER INTENTION that anyone had, that was other than the SO's COMMAND INTENTION !!!:omg:

You see ... as far as the dedicated SO were concerned, I was not one of the most ethical beings on the planet – I was not in the SO ( nor was I on staff ) - further, I was not devoting every single waking hour to the expansion of Scientology like they were !!! What they wanted removed were any other ideas and activities that were cutting across this path – they wanted to get rid of the things that I was interested in, that did not align to Command Intention - the purpose was to make me one of them !!! That was what it was all about !!! :omg:

When you read the rave success stories of OTVIII's you'll see that this is exactly right – they all rave about how they are now going off to boom their area in some major way – devoting their life to the cause even MORE than before !!!:duh:

I just thought OMG !!! I really don't want THAT !!! And at that point I knew I was finished with my journey up the Bridge and would have no regrets about that. :yes:

You get to the top of the Bridge to became exactly what the SO wants – a diligent, unquestioning, industrious Scientologist , whose main aim in life is to forward Scientology in every means possible. Ummm – this is not my idea of Total Freedom or Spiritual Enlightenment. :grouch:

Helluvahoax hit the nail on the head - you get to the top of the Bridge to become a Scientology slave !!!:thumbsup:

I wonder how many OTVII's and VIII's have also had this cognition – I know quite a few who have. It makes me wonder if the Freewinds will ever be able to release OTIX and X - how many are left who want it ??? :no:
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
Ron said a person was as successful as he replicated the methods of the MEST universe. Or something like that I read back when the RTC became an entity. So maybe the ethics office became the BORG. Gobbling up all universes into ONE by eliminating, not counter-intention, but all other-intentioned-ness. ONE MIND. ONE THINK. ONE FORWARD IMPULSED, ONE COMMAND. Oh wait.....wasn't that the very reason Ron was so vehement on the subject of Xenu, the overlord who threatened SELF-DETERMINISM. Hehehe. I guess he slid into the WINNING valence in the end.
 
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