A bold statement.

[Gadfly]

Well, there are a lot of things that are fun to do.

When I am riding my Harley on a hot summer night, for example, it is incredibly fun.

But I don't call it "tech" that "works". I just say I really enjoyed riding my motorcycle.

Some people don't enjoy riding motorcycles. There is no "tech" involved.

Well, honestly, for me, it was way MORE than just "fun". It didn't have to do with "sensory thrills" or "pleasure". It was, for me, a real experience of what some call "serenity", "peace" and "being there", as described in MANY spiritual texts throughout the ages. Those experiences were a DIRECT result of receiving auditing (the "tech"). I didn't get them from daydreaming, fantasizing, meditating, or anything else.

You might not have any interest in any of that, and may have the opinion that all such talk is nonsense. But I don't think that the writings of sincere and intelligent people, going back and spanning many thousands of years, is ALL "bullshit". Some of these subjects and words defined and described REAL mental and spiritual states. I can't "prove it", but I know the difference between what I imagine, and what I don't. This had nothing to do with "significance" or "concepts". It was pure experiences of the most amazingly wonderful states of mind (and soul).

True inner quiet, total inner peace, complete unadulterated inner silence, pure awareness, extreme calmness, no inner noise, NO MIND, no attention on the body AT ALL. I have experienced all of these as a direct result of Scientology auditing. They never lasted, but they did give me more than just a little "taste".

It was a LACK of sensation. It was a lack of "thrills". It was not so much "fun" as it was "sublimely pleasing". I would rather be "there" than anywhere else mentally, emotionally and spiritually. It gave me a hint of what a REAL spiritual practice might aim to achieve, in terms of "awareness", without all the attendant "belief bullshit".

Again, no doubt, some people don't want this to be true. I do understand THAT.

The contradictions in Scientology are REAL. In some regards it is really "nice", and in other regards it really "sucks". The FACT that Scientology auditing DOES often make a person feel REALLY GOOD, in even amazing mental and spiritual ways, is WHY so many Scientology particpants willingly accept so much of the large horrendous rest of the CRAP.

 

[Bill]

One could say that the Earth is trivial compared to the galaxy. You are trivial, your feelings, your desires and your hopes, compared to the billions of others on Earth. But what does that accomplish?

The "Church" of Scientology is not trivial to those whose lives are being torn apart by it or are still recovering from the effects of it.

ESMB is not trivial to those seeking help, seeking communication, and seeking information.

If one person is helped, it's not trivial.

There is no other place like ESMB. Thousands, many of them lurkers who never post, have been helped and continue to be helped.

I should have said "the actions of the Church of Scientology have become trivial" because that is true.

I never said ESMB is trivial and I'd rather you didn't put words in my mouth and then make a big soapbox speech about it as if I'd said that.

 

[Sindy]

Well, there are a lot of things that are fun to do.

When I am riding my Harley on a hot summer night, for example, it is incredibly fun.

But I don't call it "tech" that "works". I just say I really enjoyed riding my motorcycle.

Some people don't enjoy riding motorcycles. There is no "tech" involved.

But don't ya kinda wonder what's wrong with people that don't think it's fun - like they need a correction list or something?

 

[Gadfly]

But don't ya kinda wonder what's wrong with people that don't think it's fun - like they need a correction list or something?

The Scientology "culture" is not fun. It will never be "fun".

The Scientology organization is not "fun". It will NEVER be "fun".

But the auditing, for me, well it was ALWAYS extremely enjoyable ("fun" is NOT the correct word).

Maybe I was the only one . . . . :confused2:

I suppose there are some who look back, who did many hundreds of hours of auditing, who never got "anything" out of any of it. To me, THAT would be nuts. Did they REALLY? Were that THAT impressionable? I couldn't have EVER kept doing auditing if it were not providing me with wonderful experiences of brighter colors, vivid perceptions, and expanding space (to mention a few).

I did LOTS of drugs in college. What I am describing had NOTHING to do with those experiences.

 

[Free Being Me]

There are just so many ways one can describe how fucked up $cientology actually is. I don't see what $cientology as a subject has left to debate regarding a pro/con format. $cientology is thoroughly discredited, Hublard doesn't have nor ever had any credibility as a philosopher or a pioneer into the human spirit. $cientology is dying a slow death and when the doctor, so to speak, calls the time of death we can all celebrate.

ESMB is a ray of sanity piercing the cloudy Hublard cult mind fuck. Isn't that what truly matters?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

But don't ya kinda wonder what's wrong with people that don't think it's fun - like they need a correction list or something?

I used to wonder until I researched it.

Just prior to the Gorilla Goal Implants 319 trillion years ago were the Hog Goal Implants, that effectively laid in the pleasure-negating command: "I hate this insane loud rumbling, vibration and fucking wind!"

Persons dramatizing this implant are often seen driving mest automobiles and being chauffeured around in limousines.


Hog -noun. A Harley Davidson Motorcycle.

 

[Infinite]

. . . What the heck was happening on the 25th of Jan 08 for there to be 5,863 users online?

. . . also, do you know how to use Google to search here? While the on-board search engine does, indeed, suck donkey balls, its not too bad if you know exactly what you are looking for. If not, you can enter your search arguments into Google and add at the end (without speech marks): "site:http://www.forum.exscn.net" which means only here will be searched. Its a bit clumsy, but has saved me time and frustration.

Now, back to your scheduled topic ; )

An area of benefit sometimes overlooked is that ESMB provides a series of master classes in the understanding and observation of the real-word consequence of the application of Scientology tech. Sure, there's plenty of required reading in order to keep up with some of the conversations and to get all the jokes, but there is an abundance of patience and assistance offered to those with genuine enquiries. I've seen plenty of threads where wogs and Exes who have partners/family/loved ones tangled up with Scientology receive comfort, background information and practical advice on how to deal with their situation. While the intellectual quality of debate here can be something of a mixed bag, its certainly a whole lot better than most other Scientology-themed sites, and, anyway, that's not all ESMB is about.

 

[GreyWolf]

Gadfly and Veda, I concede that some "gains" are possible. But these gains are achievable through other resources at much lest cost, financially, emotionally and spiritually. And no, I do not mean the indie path.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

The Scientology "culture" is not fun. It will never be "fun".

No, I don't agree - it was fun back in the late sixties and seventies. But it turned into a bureaucracy and went after the all mighty dollar. Thus I doubt it can regain it's funness since it is failing to deliver.

It got as far as it did because it did deliver something, however, the current church direction has left delivery back at the bus depot.

If the indi world can deliver results it will thrive - if not ....

And fixing it - ecch - how is one to separate the negative from the good of Scientology? And who?

I have this fantasy of winning the lottery, hiring a bunch of C/Ses and Good auditors and put the tech of Scientology to the test. Not with hokey OCA's and "success" stories, but real honest to goodness tests and research. However, I have as yet to go to the 7-11 and buy a ticket.

I don't want to get into this now, but of course some of the so called "tech" works sometimes. That's a key element of the trap.

I don't know if that was his intent. I am of the belief (currently -it changes with the wind) El Ron fell into it, started getting results, started believing it but never handled his personal demons and twisted it (the orgs) into the nasty business it is now.

Actually, re: the lack of debate, there was a really good one on ARC not to long ago.

Mimsey

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Gadfly and Veda, I concede that some "gains" are possible. But these gains are achievable through other resources at much lest cost, financially, emotionally and spiritually. And no, I do not mean the indie path.

Let me ask you this - I audited a woman on Self Analysis - we did one or two intensives. She was dispersed, flighty etc. She had completely changed, "a tiger" - well not quite but she became very A-B personality - so much so she quit her auditing so she could go on to her next training course.

What other resource do you have in mind that could deliver that result?

Mimsey

 

[Sindy]

. . . also, do you know how to use Google to search here? While the on-board search engine does, indeed, suck donkey balls, its not too bad if you know exactly what you are looking for. If not, you can enter your search arguments into Google and add at the end (without speech marks): "site:http://www.forum.exscn.net" which means only here will be searched. Its a bit clumsy, but has saved me time and frustration.

Now, back to your scheduled topic ; )

An area of benefit sometimes overlooked is that ESMB provides a series of master classes in the understanding and observation of the real-word consequence of the application of Scientology tech. Sure, there's plenty of required reading in order to keep up with some of the conversations and to get all the jokes, but there is an abundance of patience and assistance offered to those with genuine enquiries. I've seen plenty of threads where wogs and Exes who have partners/family/loved ones tangled up with Scientology receive comfort, background information and practical advice on how to deal with their situation. While the intellectual quality of debate here can be something of a mixed bag, its certainly a whole lot better than most other Scientology-themed sites, and, anyway, that's not all ESMB is about.

Thank you! I will use that search procedure. Great.

Also, Excellent posting.

 

[Sindy]

There are just so many ways one can describe how fucked up $cientology actually is. I don't see what $cientology as a subject has left to debate regarding a pro/con format. $cientology is thoroughly discredited, Hublard doesn't have nor ever had any credibility as a philosopher or a pioneer into the human spirit. $cientology is dying a slow death and when the doctor, so to speak, calls the time of death we can all celebrate.

ESMB is a ray of sanity piercing the cloudy Hublard cult mind fuck. Isn't that what truly matters?

Yes

 

[Panda Termint]

Yes

Agreed!

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... But the auditing, for me, well it was ALWAYS extremely enjoyable ("fun" is NOT the correct word).

Maybe I was the only one . . . . :confused2: ...

No. But I did have several auditing sessions that were in fact a great deal of fun.


Mark A. Baker

 

[GreyWolf]

Let me ask you this - I audited a woman on Self Analysis - we did one or two intensives. She was dispersed, flighty etc. She had completely changed, "a tiger" - well not quite but she became very A-B personality - so much so she quit her auditing so she could go on to her next training course.

What other resource do you have in mind that could deliver that result?

Mimsey

Firstly. Most of Ron's great discoveries were nothing more than re-worded plagiarism. Read up and you will find the originals.

Second. The state of clear as touted in the original Dianetics DOES NOT exist.

Third. This great OT, L. Ron Hubbard died a sick and lonely old man on psych drugs. There is proof enough if you care to look. If he was all that powerful he would not have had to throw Mary Sue under the bus and go into hiding from the law. He just would have as-ised the situation.

Ron was a flim/flam man, a liar and a thief.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

BTW - there is a lot of value on the net as well as esmb. When newly booted out, I began tentatively looking at the net over my wife's shoulder and eventually got up the nerve to read stuff on my own. I think in the back of everyone's mind while in Scn's all pervading bubble, is the niggering doubt that it doesn't work and that doubt will bring down the whole house of cards if realized.

Reading post some where about a scientists view of All About Radiation, reading the post on Jeff Hawkins site "is this site entheta" started cracking my bubble apart - and it didn't come apart easily - except for my wife who tossed the water, baby, bath tub, faucet, plumbing etc. out the window - saying "if he lied about this - what else did he lie about?" Esmb had a big part in dismantling the bubble, so thanks.

So there is a lot of good at esmb - especially since I don't get moderated, even when I write something totally stupid and moronic. Thanks to Emma of course, whether she did it because it would take forever to moderate all of us crazies or she was just damn smart! I prefer the latter BTW.

Mimsey

 

[Arthur Dent]

I think most of the arugments against Scientology on this board would not win a debate.

Most of the arguments against Scientology seem to me to be just "ought not" statements or insults.

The board used to have more sound criticisms of Scientology on it.

Now it just seems the points being made are "Look how terrible they are!" statements.

There is nothing wrong with this, but it used to be better.

I think we may have become less effective at winning over doubters or convincing lurkers about what is wrong with Scientology.

It seems to me that the targets are mostly Marty Rathbun and David Miscavige instead of Scientology itself.

Where are the trolls when you really need one?


The Anabaptist Jacques

When I started cautiously lurking on the internet and this site, that was my reaction for a year or so....scn isn't all bad. There were a lot of "look how terrible they are" posts and that's what kept me in...for awhile. Some stories sounded like natter and I could most always pick apart how the person could have handled their situation with the church if they had really wanted to. But that's exactly how we were trained or brainwashed to think.

After some time, I was consumed and read everything I could find. I sat up nights for three months. So, really, if someone wants to look they will look and they will find the tasty morsels of truth here.

You've been around here a lot longer than I and I am very bored sometimes so about all the focus on Marty and Davey as well as the cult itself. I consider the boredom a sign of growth, personally speaking. I don't want to get so bored though that I lose sight of other new lurkers wanting truth here and finding the courage to get out of the cult.

The amount of information and stories and documents here are more than sufficient to convince someone who wants to look.

I think anyone lurking here for the first time may or may not stay but I think one's interest when they start looking is very personal. They have usually had something happen, some straw that broke the camel's back, etc. and they will be searching those subjects and will find the number of similar stories to theirs so overwhelming and universal that it will all fit together for them.

Knowing the numbers for new members since a given time would be interesting to know.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Hi Grey Wolf. Lets put your 3 points on the side and answer my question - "What other resource do you have in mind that can deliver that result?"

For you to assert that something else can do it, I presume you know of it, so please name it.

I am sorry, I don't think all of "his" tech is BS whether plagerized or his own creation.

Mimsey

 

[Panda Termint]

I certainly used to enjoy the sprited discussion with some of the real supporters of the CofS here on ESMB. Alex was my favourite; we argued, we discussed, we bitched at each other but I loved her.

Rest In Peace, Alex, you're missed.

 

[Emma]

I certainly used to enjoy the sprited discussion with some of the real supporters of the CofS here on ESMB. Alex was my favourite; we argued, we discussed, we bitched at each other but I loved her.

Rest In Peace, Alex, you're missed.

Errr...I'd miss her too & wish her eternal peace if Alex was a she who did die.

But I still believe Alex was a he who's sock puppet was killed off, but who still lives on in our mortal world.