Rathbun's views on the Debbie Cook trial.

[LA SCN]

I always thought the IAS should get their own Mastercard. I didn't know the good Captain wanted to get back in good standing with the CoS. Does he realize that he'll have to do DM's Trashcan Rundown as a part of the re-entry routing form?

Said he could talk trash with the best of them...

 

[Man de la Mancha]

Nah. While it might be sort of enjoyable to have a Custom Shop 1959 Les Paul Reissue (with ebony fingerboard, jumbo frets and a flatter modern radius), or a "Private Stock" PRS Custom, I have no need for such things. I already HAD quite a few of each of those already...

...


How about one of THESE (with a high-end PRS and Gibson Les Paul in EACH room)? And a few million in the bank?

Thank you for the detailed reply! I will keep the Ibanez in mind next time I'm shopping for a guitar. The only electric I have is an old Fender Stratacaster that needs a few repairs. I usually play my Epiphone Emperor. My "cheap" guitar is a Johnson, and yes, I often play with my Johnson. I stopped playing with my "other Johnson" when I left the Sea Org.

Also, a few weeks ago you posted a couple links to your recordings and now I can't find them. Do you remember what thread that was in?

And the house won't be a problem, but you'll have to share it with 10 or 20 beautiful Sea Org women posted as "celebrities in traning". Make them famous Gadfly. We're counting on you.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Well I am honored! My second day on the forum and I'm already being watched by someone. Is this a record?

Actually, if you want to talk "watched," here is where you go:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?20742-Good-Twin-s-Boobs&p=496034&viewfull=1#post496034

If you want to do some more watching:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?2773-FCDC-circa-1970&p=48956&viewfull=1#post48956

 

[Gadfly]

Thank you for the detailed reply! I will keep the Ibanez in mind next time I'm shopping for a guitar. The only electric I have is an old Fender Stratacaster that needs a few repairs. I usually play my Epiphone Emperor. My "cheap" guitar is a Johnson, and yes, I often play with my Johnson. I stopped playing with my "other Johnson" when I left the Sea Org.

Funny!

Also, a few weeks ago you posted a couple links to your recordings and now I can't find them. Do you remember what thread that was in?

Nope, I will have to search and try to locate it. I will post it if I can locate it.

And the house won't be a problem, but you'll have to share it with 10 or 20 beautiful Sea Org women posted as "celebrities in training". Make them famous Gadfly. We're counting on you.

Mine above in BOLD.

OK, but on the 10 or 20 beautiful young Sea Org hotties, I require a wide range of races and heights, blondes, brunettes and redheads, and each MUST look exceptionally good in sexy lingerie (and CMO hot pants)! And, in the words of the band Foreigner, they MUST "do more than dance" (from the song Hot Blooded).

It will be a tough job, but somebody's got to do it!

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Mine above in BOLD.

OK, but on the 10 or 20 beautiful young Sea Org hotties, I require a wide range of races and heights, blondes, brunettes and redheads, and each MUST look exceptionally good in sexy lingerie (and CMO hot pants)! And, in the words of the band Foreigner, they MUST "do more than dance" (from the song Hot Blooded).

It will be a tough job, but somebody's got to do it!

Ya wanna start a non-celibate monastic cult?


Mark A. Baker

 

[Gadfly]

Ya wanna start a non-celibate monastic cult?

Mark A. Baker

Mmm, not a bad idea Mr. Baker. Not a bad idea at all.

Anyways, it's just my meat body that is having all of that sex - it is NOT my "thetan".

 

[Smurf]

Ya wanna start a non-celibate monastic cult?

Hot! I have an idea for the robes.

 

[Gadfly]

Also, a few weeks ago you posted a couple links to your recordings and now I can't find them. Do you remember what thread that was in?

Just learned how to use the "advanced search function".

Here is the link:

Some Gadfly Tunes

And a few more

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Mmm, not a bad idea Mr. Baker. Not a bad idea at all.

Anyways, it's just my meat body that is having all of that sex - it is NOT my "thetan".

Besides its another skillful means by which compassion and communication can be shared in a loving fashion thereby giving people the opportunity to help others.


Mark A. Baker
p.s. As a former maritime officer I know how to steer ships & navigate. That might prove useful.

 

[Dean Blair]

Without addressing any issues raised about what others believe M&M's long-term goals are, whether those are true or not (and about which I don't have any info, sorry), I want to address Lone Star's comment above about Rathbun's "angry punk ass thug" behavior when Rathbun was harassed in front of his home, in airports, etc.

If my spouse and I had been harassed as much as Marty and Mosey have been these past few years, I'd probably have been arrested several times for doing much more than I've read or seen evidence of Rathbun doing. I don't think striking out against those squirrel busters and "documentarians" would make me an "angry punk ass thug." It would make me a human being who'd been harassed to the point of exhaustion and frustration.

And for the record, which evidentiary videos are you citing here? The cult's? If so, don't you wonder what other videoed bits were left on the cutting room floor?

I hope you didn't jump the shark there.

TG1

I am afraid that I would have been in jail with you for the same reasons you have stated. As tough as Marty acted in the videos he had more constraint than I would have had if the "squirrel busters" would have messed with my family. Thank you for your post.

 

[Infinite]

. . . Okay, back to the thread topic . . . . .

The trouble with paying much attention to Rathbun's views on anything is that he is using lies and, more perniciously, half-truths in a battle for "the truth" - that's a bit like fucking for virginity, if you ask me.

 

[Veda]

Without addressing any issues raised about what others believe M&M's long-term goals are, whether those are true or not (and about which I don't have any info, sorry), I want to address Lone Star's comment above about Rathbun's "angry punk ass thug" behavior when Rathbun was harassed in front of his home, in airports, etc.

If my spouse and I had been harassed as much as Marty and Mosey have been these past few years, I'd probably have been arrested several times for doing much more than I've read or seen evidence of Rathbun doing. I don't think striking out against those squirrel busters and "documentarians" would make me an "angry punk ass thug." It would make me a human being who'd been harassed to the point of exhaustion and frustration.

And for the record, which evidentiary videos are you citing here? The cult's? If so, don't you wonder what other videoed bits were left on the cutting room floor?

I hope you didn't jump the shark there.

TG1

It's funny how times change. People such as Paulette Cooper, and others from the 1970s and 1980s, who were sued, harassed, and dirty-tricked, would have been delighted if all they had been subjected to was guys in camera hats and squirrel buster t-shirts, and some guys following them around.

This discussion (re. Keystone cops, Fair Game-lite) occurred some months ago, so I won't rehash it, except to note that Marty Rathbun's treatment is mild compared to what others experienced in the past.

Even Jesse Prince commented on the difference in how Rathbun is treated and others, including himself ten years ago, were treated.

 

[Man de la Mancha]

Hmmmm....

(Omitted Rathbun article on implications of "Battle of San Antonio")


http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/

I must say, the more I hear from this guy the more I like him - and he's right, it's time for all those with an unexpired statute of limitations to come out of the closet and be heard.

Since Mr. Rathbun is competing with me for the position of "Ecclesiastic Leader", I won't mention that his name recognition and popularity would make him a very tough opponent if he'd only renounce the RPF, child neglect, and disconnection, whether or not each instance of injustice reflects poorly on his nemesis Mr. Miscavige.

Since he doesn't want to do that, I guess I'm gonna be the next leader.

Also, I can't f'n believe Angie Blankenship became the "Hole Tormentor". Unless I'm thinking of a different person, she was a sweet kid in the mid-80s. It's good to hear she's begun the kool-aid extraction process.

 

[Free to shine]

I saw the title of this thread and thought "Who cares?" (Sorry FTS, no offense).

Re: Rathbun's views on the Debbie Cook trial.

---------------

Even with DM out, who cares?

I was raised in the Sea Org prior to DM. As a child, I dealt with beans and rice ONLY, 3 meals a day for YEARS, no money, no schooling, dirty clothes, wearing the same clothes every day, collecting freeloader debts for the org (yes, when I was 5 to 7 years old!) and giving that money to the church and still being starved constantly! Tons of children got molested too while I was a child. And punishment was for the KIDS for that!

What kind of "religion" would do that?

Getting DM out will change nothing. The whole thing has to go. It in inhuman!

No worries Bea. I did put "if anyone cares" in the thread title of a Rathbun thread once, and was tempted to again, but as that previous thread ended up being a huge one I knew that this wants discussing.

Unfortunately he (and his views) are very much part of the whole subject of dismantling scientology, as he is a 'safe haven' for some of the people leaving.

Yes, in my opinion the whole thing has to go as well. Rathbun is directing the attention to Miscavige as being the only problem, and that is wrong. That needs highlighting and discussing as much as possible.

When I read his blog my reaction was the same as this one:

When I read his post last night (the one being discussed in this thread) I got a chill. He talks about his past activities of destroying people's lives like some people talk about what they are having for breakfast. No sign of remorse. AT ALL.

ALL the truth needs to come out, not be whitewashed into oblivion. It's good that he provides a sort of gradient for people finding their feet, but goodness knows it is hopefully only a small stop over on the way to them finding out all the truth - as you state it. Every time I see him grandstanding it does make me shudder, and reading that para about what he and Rinder did... the way it was written....

What happened to you is the truth of it....and to many others. That is what scientology is really about, bottom line, and will keep doing all I can to make this truth known. And that includes caring about all the people that Rathbun and Rinder casually say they destroyed in that blog post.

Maybe that makes me a 'hater' in some people's eyes... don't care. I have lived with the bullshit and the fallout from the bullshit for 4 decades and it breaks this 'sensitive militant's' heart to see people still being bullshitted!

 

[BunnySkull]

I don't know about that Bunny, M&M aren't that well off and remember it Debbie's fight not theirs, I think with her business demolished she was worse off than them.

There is also the matter that it, in their minds at least was a community project for the benefit of all of mankind.

Most community activities are funded through benefactors. Rural fire service, Flying Doctor, Salvos and many more are done this way. Scientology only borrowed from the mindset.

I get you point but I can't compare doctors, firefighters, etc... Who provide a real valuable service to M&M's campaign to be LRH's bestest loyal officers. Also, just because they aren't filthy rich doesnt make any better, I'm sure if the donations supporting were x10 they wouldn't be complaining it was too much.

I guess I find it to similar to how the CoS makes people pay all this money to go up the bridge, then low and behold we found an error in transcription so now you need to pay thru the nose to redo the levels due to CoS's mistake. For decades you had M&M supporting CoS and demanding members go into extreme debt to fund it, they were a big part of that corrupt system. Now they've decided it's wrong and want people to support their new indie Scientology. All that stuff you paid for before was wrong, so please give us money to support this new version and wipe out the old one you spent thousands upon. We are really sure this is the right version this time!

No matter which sign of the coin members are still paying. I find it telling that no matter where on the "supporting LRH's Scientology" you are on the spectrum - it cost money. One thing all people trying to save/ support Scientology have in common - paying and paying for others mistakes.

 

[Veda]

I saw the title of this thread and thought "Who cares?" (Sorry FTS, no offense).

Re: Rathbun's views on the Debbie Cook trial.

---------------

Even with DM out, who cares?

I was raised in the Sea Org prior to DM. As a child, I dealt with beans and rice ONLY, 3 meals a day for YEARS, no money, no schooling, dirty clothes, wearing the same clothes every day, collecting freeloader debts for the org (yes, when I was 5 to 7 years old!) and giving that money to the church and still being starved constantly! Tons of children got molested too while I was a child. And punishment was for the KIDS for that!

What kind of "religion" would do that?

Getting DM out will change nothing. The whole thing has to go. It in inhuman!

There's an ongoing attempt by both the CofS Scientology and outside the CofS Scientology to erase or, at least, rewrite, the 1970s - the pre-Miscavige period.

Your contributions providing details from this period - in your writings on ESMB - are most appreciated.

Paul's Rabbit:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...oBdI3MR3BXNJybLSw&sig2=7zn1XdxBE6h3v9WedUWtlw

 

[Lure Rob & Hyde]

Good stuff - Honesty is the best policy; Different strokes for different folks; The truth will out - conventional wisdom supports you and freedom of speech is the soup de jour on ESMB

You guys are really missing the mark here on your knees giving praise to Marty !
It was Marty that harassed ,attacked, tormented, hounded and framed David Mayo who was exposing Hubbard for the fraud he was.
It was Marty that harassed, tormented, attacked and hounded Arnie Lerma and did his best to derail him.
It was Marty that that harassed, tormented, attacked and hounded Dennis Erlich till he settled.
It was Marty that that harassed, tormented, attacked and hounded Gerry Armstrong.
There are many many more of these despicable acts Marty.
By Marty's own admission he himself destroyed crucial evidence on the Lisa McPherson case that should have taken down the cult once and for all.
All these real whistle blowers who came before were beset upon by Marty& Gang with all their sadistic illegal & legal whims backed by church money.
Of course the cult of Scientology would be history if not for the valiant efforts of Marty& Gang ..
If this Marty thug wasn't there to begin with we may not have seen the evidences of the critics destroyed along with their movement to stop the cult from harming others.
Marty was the henchman, hitman and cleanup in charge for the cult leader.
You can't possibly list all the skull duggery this Marty has successfully perpetrated on opponents of Miscabbage and Elwrong.
Point here is we would not even be needing to do a court case with D Cook if this Marty had not done his best to silence and dispose of the whistle blowers along with damming evidence on the crook Hubbard and the cult.
He is good at painting the illsuion that suits him when needed.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... If this Marty thug wasn't there to begin with we may not have seen the evidences of the critics destroyed along with their movement to stop the cult from harming others.
Marty was the henchman, hitman and cleanup in charge for the cult leader.

You can't possibly list all the skull duggery this Marty has successfully perpetrated on opponents of Miscabbage and Elwrong.

Point here is we would not even be needing to do a court case with D Cook if this Marty had not done his best to silence and dispose of the whistle blowers along with damming evidence on the crook Hubbard and the cult.

And what makes this worse is not that he did these things but that Rathbun is still quite proud of these achievements of his past.


Mark A. Baker

 

[BunnySkull]

Lure Rob & Hyde - I was thinking yesterday had Marty not been such an able cult henchmen we probably wouldn't be here today. The murder of Lisa McPherson could have been an unrecoverable blow to DM - forcing him out of leadership, possibly into jail, brought real oversight into CoS and their practices, gained enough exposure to cripple the financial empire of the cult, etc...

Marty and others truly saved DM's ass, stepping all over the body and memory of Lisa in the process, so that his brutal reign could continue and thrive. The last 15 years of suffering, destroyed families & lives didn't have to happen if Marty didn't believe in doing whatever it took to save DM and Scientology. It worries me because I don't think Martys point of view has changed, he just now believes in doing whatever it takes to save Scientology, sans DM. In fact, getting rid of DM is part of saving Scientology in Martys mind now.

It's always bothered me that Marty continued to protect DM by remaining silent until 2009 - which is years after he decided DM was evil. Marty blew in 2004 or so. He sat down in Texas for years, with his knowledge, knowing his former friends were locked in the hole at int, knowing so many were suffering and didn't say a word. He decided to go about his life, even got a Match.com profile and found himself a honey (Mosey), all the while knowing about the insanity and abuse was continuing 24/7/365 to those dedicated SO members he worked along side of for years.

I'm glad he finally decided to start talk a bit, better late than never. But if you recall his first reach to ESMB and others was offering "auditing services." He came to ESMB for one minute or so and when people asked questions rather than celebrating the fact the mighty Marty was open for business, selling auditing services, he quickly got huffy and took his toys and went home. Publicly he seems pissy and disgusted by anyone who holds his past against him or questions him due to his past. He doesn't seem sorry about his past actions, nor in apologizing to those he hurt - though a few of his fanboys here claim behind the scenes he does apologize. ( Seems to me he only thinks he needs to apologize if his victim still worships LRH.)

I think Marty has very little insight into his past actions and the harm he caused, and/or he just doesn't care. I don't think Marty has changed much from the days of being DM's henchman, now he just sees himself as LRH's henchman and luckily doesn't have the unlimited resources to carry his mission out. I think the only major difference we are seeing in Marty now a days is due to not having a giant bankroll and an army of SO, lawyers and PIs to help him.

BTW: Marty pretty much confirms this by getting very huffy anytime someone refers to the "old Marty" or how Marty thought "back then" by saying he's the same man or he hasn't changed his thinking. (implying his thinking/opinions have never been wrong, just his stable data points or some shit changed.)

 

[paradox]

He say's this without the faintest remorse. He is the same person, playing the same game, just on another team. It's like a Nazi joining the allies when he knows that the Nazi's are losing the war. He is still a Nazi at heart. The OSA video's of Marty not only show OSA to be borish malicious time wasters, it also shows Marty to be the irrational, violent, thug that he is now and was in the C of S. Miscavige's physical abuse of staff is decades old. Marty Rathbun left corporate Scientology in 2004 and would probably still be there had he not been submitted to 'The Hole'. I don't believe for a moment that he has anything to offer spiritually and has been so knee deep in so much despisable behaviour for so long and shown so little remorse for it, that it is hard for me to support him or his friends in their endeavours. At the end of the day it will be the perpertrator's of the worst abuse in Scientology that will take Scientology down, as we are now seeing as they battle it out in court.

They are not even late cogniter's, they have yet to cognite. Debbie still believes that only such abuse happened at Int. Where has she been for the last 30-40 years? It's happening down in the Org's as well. Terril now feels that Debbie's testimony is proof that it's all down to "one man". Terril, get your head out of the sand. Do you think Hitler stayed in power without support and willing and knowing acomplices? We've been here before with all the court cases in the early to mid 80's and even earlier with that with people who were dismayed at Hubbard's introduction of heavy ethics.

Aside from Marty's statement which I have quoted where he talks about "utterly ruining people", he was also responsible for destroying evidence in the Lisa McPherson case, knew about the bad tech at Flag, as evidenced by Nancy Many (and ironically verified by a post of his), he lovingly introduced the e-meter to ethics cycle's, admits to drawing up legal strategies to destroy people, physically hit people, he brought Annie back to her imprisonment, emotionally caved people in with his "ethics" interviews (Michael Pattinson, is just one example) and someone (allegedly) managed to hold on to his inheritance the whole time whilst the rest of us were expected to hand voer everything and more! Now Debbie, is not as knee deep into the crimes as the axis of evil Rinder-Rathbun-Miscavige, but she knows stuff and that stuff could be damaging to Marty as well, very damaging. No suprise that he turns up on the scene as a hero, but in my eyes is the biggest 'handler' of them all or 'containment agent' acting to protect himself and his hidden goals and agenda's. He control's the income for her legal defense, he arranged the attorney and this will no-doubt influence how things are played out in court and how she present's things.

Marty and Mike have no right to criticise Tommy Davis, who they groomed to be the way he is now and who is doing the job they once did and has far cleaner hands than they could ever hope to have. They're also in no position to criticise people for the gagging order's considering they harrassed people to do the same.

Marty only tells the truth when it suits his regime. There was more than one person (Miscavige) and behind that Ron, responsible for all that has gone wrong. I remember many people in Scientology who did not hurt and abuse people or get on ego trips and even a few who spoke out against the injustice at a great loss to themselves. He has very cleverly avoided jail and is hiding behind the support and naivety of the people he would have onced destroyed, should it have been called for, to give himself an air of innocence and credibility.

This ^ ^ ^, IN SPADES. Likewise with BunnySkull's post just above ^ ^ ^