The Edge interview with high level scientology defector (Bill Franks)

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Bill, why would he tell you and David Mayo about the o/w - arcx=blow thing? It seems odd that he would, since it contravenes his own hcobs etc. Did the prevailing criminal mentality seep into the tech itself? Mimsey

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

In 1984 I was in PAC (sure you remember Lulu!) and I was in briefing for the IAS set up with jens Uhrskov and Jens gave me access to the 1982 analysis and advices.

In that analysis Hubbard was commenting on the fact that 284 was still ebing enforced and telling WDC that they could not cancel it even though it was a mistake because the income would crash.

Around the world regges were going to the RPF for protesting the insanity of 284, fsms and public were DECLARED for saying this.

And no-one said anything.

Mick, can you explain what 284 is? Thanks Mimsey

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

I don't want to put words in Bill Franks mouth, but this is how I understand what he said in the interview regarding the murder and other planned murders of British Members of the House of Commons.

Tom Smith asked if Bill Franks, as a result of Bill being ED Int (circa 1981), had the opportunity to know what the GO was doing.

Over the next 4 or so minutes Bill states YES, that he had READ of the plans to KILL 3 Member of the House of Commons. One of which he KNOWS was murdered in probably 1979. And that he recalled having brushed up against this (not sure what this refers to) about 6 years earlier.

Anyone can re-listen to the interview between 13 and approx 18 minutes to verify this.

Bill, I have a Question. Why would you say it is "unfair" to state names now that it is now in the range of 33 years after the facts?

I see three Member of Parliament, who were murdered between 1973 and 1979, per the link provided earlier.

Sir Richard Sharples 1973, Captian Walter Scott Elliot 1977 and Airey Neave 1979.

Alan Graham Brown 1972 and Desmond Donnelly 1974 committed suicide

Putting this murder idea up against the fully confirmed story of Paulette Cooper in the same era, but different country, I have good reason to believe the high probability of the GO masterminding such a murder.

 

[still here]

I don't find it strange that he told David and Bill that O/Ws didn't result in blows.

You cannot apply logic to insanity. Logically he should have kept it to himself. He rarely did.

Just from this thread you can see how many people saw insanity and awful orders from LRH, and did nothing, we all of us saw something or many things that were not what we expected, or were shocking.... Once in the cult, once a true believer or even a believer, denial is a powerful tool, all cult members are completely expert at using it, until one day maybe it runs out, for some.

LRH was perfectly safe to gamble - Bill and David said nothing, like everyone else - for a very, very long time...Scn was not put at risk, because they were not a risk then - or for a long time afterwards.

 

[Lulu Belle]

In 1984 I was in PAC

I remember.

The motorcycle guy.

I thought you were hot.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Mick, can you explain what 284 is? Thanks Mimsey

LRH ED 284 "The Solution to Inflation" it was released in, IIRC, July of 1976. it stated that the prices for services would rise by 5% per month (10% per month in the UK) for all orgs except the FLB.

So by the time Tubby was busily pontificating in 1982 it had been going on for nearly 6 years.

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

Oh. Bill I had not seen your post 119 as I was drafting mine.

I am glad you reported to the authorities.

Hubbard most surely used emotion and ideals, essential factors of life, to build his mind control cult.
As I see it his evident intent was not for the good of mankind but for his sole narcissistic aggrandizement.

Dear readers,
i really have no dog in this fight. Though I am not yet retired, I am pretty far away from the scn-exscn scene. i would like to clarify a few things.
It is the the radio interviewer who perhaps made the emphasis on the murder. Does anyone really doubt that this kind of thing went on. This was the atmosphere within the close circles of scn when hubbard was alive. If you think murder was not on Hubbard's mind then you just are not familiar with the "ends justify the means' frame of mind" that existed. My guess is that it might still but I don't know. I do however know that this existed back in the day. Think Mein Kamp which was published in 1923 but foretold just what Adolph had in mind and it puts perspective on what happened in Germany 1933-1945.
Then one certainly remembers Hubbards old quip at a sci fi convention in the early 50's which was, if "anyone really would like to make a lot of money what one has to do is start a religion". We all know what came after that.
I am not comparing hitler with lrh but in my mind in 80-81 what i saw first hand was getting close to becoming that.
Murder is not the story that I wished to convey as that is the sensational thing that Tom beiing the media guy would of course pick up on. Instead, what I feel is the real story, is this whole overt withold technique hubbard developed It is why most of us got in and stayed in for as long as we did. It is why some people, intelligent people, are still in even though their lfe is hell. Heber jentcsh is one of them that i know of.
I knew this guy when he was still a young and energetic guy, in fact I lived in the same house (Silver lake) he did back when we were still full of piss and vinegar. Why do you think Heber allows himself to be treated the way he is. Margaret Singer tells us why. And that is the news.
Back to the murder thing, I just offhandedly mentioned the guy from England but my intent is to talk about the climate Hubbard created. it was really a criminal environment and frankly, I am surprised that anyone would doubt that that kind of stuff went on.
Mayo, who I have the greatest of respect for, told me in '84 that Hubbard himself told him in 83 that if he left he would be tracked down and shot. It had gotten to that point. And for any ex messengers out there, they could tell you how sancrosanct an " LRH order" is. So, I wonder to this day about Dave's safety though it has been many years since I have spoken to him.Hubbard did use professional hitmen and I am surprised that anyone would even doubt this went on. My point is the villain is Hubbard not miscavage. lrh needed a willing thug and the dwrf fit the bill, but the crime was and remains hubbard's machinations.
Once again, I have no dog in this fight except a desire to set the record straight. Because we were all to varying degrees vctims of this tech I think it is at least incumbent on me, as having been privy to this info, to let it be known. I also suggest that one might go back and reread what Mayo had to say before they put this legal muzzle on him. Perhaps then the independents who profess to want to salvage the tech, should republish what Mayo had to say. Though it is a pity that they have muzzled him, it certainly says a lot thatthe thugs spent so much time and money to do it. Mayo must have really hit a nerve. I think he might be considered to be the real hero here. That brainwashing to various degrees hit all of us who went through it all and caused us to do things we might still be ashamed of, obligates us all to do what we can to shake are selves free of this Total Bullshit.
hubbard was not a nice guy and the dwarf merely carries on the tradition. If you think about it, it is hilarously sad that this subject purported to be the way to "total freedom". It is not so important to believe what i say, but it is important to take care of yourself and those you love if they were affected by this "brainwashing" which is about as real as the wall one might run into.
So, murder is pretty commonplace in a criminal environment, but the real story is that this technology that most of us held up as something holy is what got us and the dwarf and the super duper power building where it is. I doubt there is anything to salvage but if some want t try let them find out.
Please note that the facts that I have tagged have all been long ago reported to the authorities and one wonders why nothing is done. Perhaps the answer begins with eveyone gettin him or herself free from the "tech".best, bill Franks

 

[Lulu Belle]

As an ex, this thread is hugely important to me.

You know the one actual handwritten LRH policy I remember actually seeing when I was on staff?

"There is no Hidden Data Line."

oh the fucking irony.

 

[smartone]

I havetried to reply to the various posts but someone has continually erased my attempts. Bill Franks

I wonder who?

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

I wonder who?

Yarr, it is not an action from here, so either Bill's cat is playing mind games, or he isn't doing it right, anything else is tin-foil and tinsel.

Bill, you are obviously having some posting issues, possibly your own PC is mucking with ya, if you have a technical Q on what to do to reply and post, read the FAQ's here and/or PM one of us other folk, gotta be simple derpy thingy, you would not be the first person to have missed something procedural. If this is a continuing thing you could ask your question in the 'Support' threads, tell us the exact problem (per your actions/results), then let us chime in.
For anyone silly enough to chalk this up to some sort of 'conspiracy', off to the 'Well o' Infinite Despair' fer ya

 

[NoName]

Bill, why would he tell you and David Mayo about the o/w - arcx=blow thing? It seems odd that he would, since it contravenes his own hcobs etc. Did the prevailing criminal mentality seep into the tech itself? Mimsey

I don't find it odd at all. In fact, I thought that one of the obvious things about Scno was that for every bit of tech there is a contradictory bit of tech.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Well, No Name the way I understood was the correct way to handle the contradictions was to follow the latest hcob on the subject. I did that and it seemed to go fine.

Ogsonofgroo, I wouldn't put it past the OSA to hack someone's computer. They are mans salvation and mere laws don't apply. How hard can it be to hack a password or hijack a computer with no password? When I do a chat to debug my computer's latest issue, they take control and do whatever to fix it. No big deal.

While they may not give much of a crap about me, Bill is a bigger fish, and if he knows a bunch of dirt, so much more reason to hack him.

Mimsey

 

[Panda Termint]

In lieu of an answer from Bill, I'll proffer supposition re: why would Hubbard tell the "they blow because of ARCXs" datum;

There were blows. A lot of people wanting to leave. Many/most of the blowees, people wanting out of the place, were Students. The C/S and D of T were diligently applying the O/W tech as a "remedy" for blows and getting no traction. They were looking for Overts and ignoring the ARCXs and upsets. Hubbard decided to tell them a bit of truth as a solution to losing Students. End of supposition.

 

[Boojuum]

I listened to the complete interview. There are a few things that I found amazing and helpful:

1. The MP murder story;
2. LRH causing MSH to end up in jail;
3. A confirmation that Quentin was gay;
4. ARCX's (not O/W) causing someone to leave (no surprise to me) but interesting and we heard this previously;
5. The comments Bill heard from Margaret Singer regarding brainwashing.

Bill's posts clarify what's important: Scientology is a rip off and LRH was a thug who would stop at nothing to protect himself. Bill's straightforward tone and detailed memory is compelling.

This is an important interview in the uncloaking of Scientology; it's a big deal. Bill Franks was one of the top guys for quite a while and worked directly under LRH. Bill isn't a high profile guy who got there after LRH died. Bill isn't an Anonymous who never set foot in an org. Bill was on the Flagship; Bill was there at the Mission holders meetings; Bill was there when Miscavage was just starting out.

Keep writing, Bill. You have a ready audience. It's very helpful.

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

Yupperz!

@ Mimsey~ yeh i no eh *sigh*

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

I think I groked whatever the hell you wrote. Who is groo by the way? Mimsey

 

[paradox]

<snip>

Mayo, who I have the greatest of respect for, told me in '84 that Hubbard himself told him in 83 that if he left he would be tracked down and shot. It had gotten to that point. And for any ex messengers out there, they could tell you how sancrosanct an " LRH order" is. So, I wonder to this day about Dave's safety though it has been many years since I have spoken to him.

<snip>

[emphasis added]

Oops. What about this?

[0:35:57 mark]

[Franks] David [Mayo] left and David was pretty remorseful at the time about his role in Scientology. He started a center in Santa Barbara and ...

[TheEdge] I think he call it the Advanced Ability Center or something like that?

[Franks] Yeah, whatever. I'd only really been there once myself, but his stated purpose, and he stated this to me the other day, that he just wanted to get as many people out of Scientology as he could. His number of people that he got out of Scientology was about 5,000 people. That's what he calculates.

[emphasis added]

 

[appledore3]

Re: The Edge interview with high level scientology defector

FWIW, here is some of what I promised to publish after the show aired. As published on OCMB:

http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=89390&p=477575#p477575

Yes, I most heartily agree with JustMe. I have long known of second hand bits, and first hand bits of everything that Bill Franks has said in this interview. Bill re affirms what I already knew. Hubbard did these illegal acts and set his wife up to take the 'fall".

 

[Veda]

In lieu of an answer from Bill, I'll proffer supposition re: why would Hubbard tell the "they blow because of ARCXs" datum;

There were blows. A lot of people wanting to leave. Many/most of the blowees, people wanting out of the place, were Students. The C/S and D of T were diligently applying the O/W tech as a "remedy" for blows and getting no traction. They were looking for Overts and ignoring the ARCXs and upsets. Hubbard decided to tell them a bit of truth as a solution to losing Students. End of supposition.

There's a 1960 HCOB, titled, 'A Sad Tail (sic) of PDH', which may be relevant to this discussion. It makes light of "PDH" ('Pain-Drug-Hypnosis'), after Hubbard had worked his staff into a frenzy of concern over who had been "PDHed." This frenzy interfered with production, body-routing, and income.

There's also a reference by Hubbard, as I recall, around 1963, that "PDH" seldom occurred, and that what was being identified as "PDH" was ancient extraterrestrial Implants, so don't worry about it, as it's not being done now.

IMO, Hubbard used the idea of "PDH" to serve his ends, and discounted it when it proved inconvenient, or started to create a near hysterical situation in "Orgs," with staff checking each other for "PDH," and almost everyone reading (on the meter).

In other words, Hubbard was willing to - in this case very confidentially - modify a "tech datum" if it forwarded his self-serving agenda.

Also, the message was sent at 3 or so in the morning, when Hubbard may have been under the influence of a quantity of gin or rum.

 

[appledore3]

It's a huge deal to have someone with the access of Bill Franks to make that type of accusation. Proof is another matter.

THE INTERVIEW IS A DEVASTATING INDICTMENT OF LRON HUBBARD.

This is more damning than Debbie's revelations about Int. This is SOURCE setting up his wife to go to the slammer.

Wow.

I have known this for years (he did it all, denied he had any knowledge to his staff, got rid of all staff who would know it came from him, and then had her go to jail, while he went into hiding. I know specifically of one messenger he looked dead in the eye and said "I knew nothing, I hadn't a clue"... Sadly she believed him as I guess more members and ex members than I thought did.
nancy