CofS lies that constituted a turning/breaking point

[Voltaire's Child]

I'm sure it's different for everybody, but I think that for a number of people, one of the last straw type situations or did, at least, start the rift going-was a lie that they found out about.

Of course there were many lies. The organization lied in so many ways, as did Hubbard. But I do feel that for some people, there were particular lies that were either the end of it for them or the beginning of the end.

For instance, some people I know were outraged that Hubbard didn't answer his own letters on the ED1 line. It wasn't so much that he just didn't answer them, it's that the cult broadly implied that he did do so. It was the lie that upset people.

Another one: One night my husband and I went to an event. Can't remember what it was about but during it they said they were conducting an auditing session on stage. Not a demo, but an auditing session. Well, we sat in the front row. My husband noticed that the meter wasn't plugged in and he started craning his neck a bit more to see. The "auditor" noticed this and started trying to move stuff so that John couldn't see. John realized that there was no auditing taking place but that they'd said there was. They could have just as easily said they were doing a demo of auditing and the public there would have probably been ok with it. All the way home that night, John vented about how angry this made him- being lied to.

So what are some of yours?

 

[Dulloldfart]

I'd been out of the SO for maybe a year, and had read maybe a thousand hours of stuff online about Hubbard and the CofS and Scn, but hadn't really changed my mind much about it all. Still thought they were basically the good guys with maybe a few rotten apples. Then I saw on TV in LA a program about CAN, the Cult Awareness Network. Heber was on, saying the cult had not organized a letter writing campaign. It was a lie. I knew it was a lie because I knew it was exactly the kind of thing they did. And Heber looked like he was lying. I was shocked. It was a turning point for me.

Paul

 

[Tiger Lily]

There were many,as you said. But the last straw for me was the new Basics release. When I realized that one of 2 things had to be true

either:

1. Ron was not "OT" enough to realize his books were wrong and
2. The COS had been selling/promoting/referring to books for years that they knew to be incorrect. and
3. I'd wasted hours in word clearing and ethics for misunderstandings on those books -- and there was not one semblance of an apology or an attempt to make it right.

or:

The new Basics were "squirreled" tech.

Either way, I knew I was done with Scientology.

Poker Player says it much better than me though here (this is a great rant):

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=10177

TL

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

There were many,as you said. But the last straw for me was the new Basics release. When I realized that one of 2 things had to be true

either:

1. Ron was not "OT" enough to realize his books were wrong and
2. The COS had been selling/promoting/referring to books for years that they knew to be incorrect. and
3. I'd wasted hours in word clearing and ethics for misunderstandings on those books -- and there was not one semblance of an apology or an attempt to make it right.

or:

The new Basics were "squirreled" tech.

Either way, I knew I was done with Scientology.

Poker Player says it much better than me though here (this is a great rant):

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=10177

TL

Perfectly wrapped it up for me right there.

There were many little lies but that one took the cake for me.

 

[lionheart]

For me it was when Ron started increasing donations for services and books at the compound rate of 10% per month.

The simple maths showed what he described as a "small" increase actually amounted to a 200% increase in a year! A £1000 service was set to became a £3000 service in 12 months

It was his description of it a a "small" increase that made me question his motives. He disguised a huge increase as a "small" 10% increase.

He also justified the same increase in book prices as being because there was a "worldwide shortage of paper". There was no such shortage at that time, in fact there was a glut of paper.

I saw Hubbard was lying and the obvious conclusion was that the real reason was because he wanted to make a load of money for either himself or the CofS.

This was when I started to see that he was a liar. All questions up-line about this were ignored or batted back with the words "the increase remains in place".

These increases caused a lot of distress for public and staff. No time limit was put on this 10% per month per month increase, making many people think the Bridge would be out of their reach within a year or two! I saw many people just give up and apathetically accept they would not achieve "Total Freedom"

This was in the late seventies and the prices did increase by something like 200-300%.

Then he went on to the better scam of inventing new levels like Dianetic, Past Life and Natural Clears to move people out of the Missions and Outer Orgs into the AO's paying for upper levels in order to garner more cash.

By this point it was obvious to me that the Ron's/CofS' main motivation was money and that lies were told to achieve this.

 

[Dulloldfart]

This was in the late seventies and the prices did increase by something like 200-300%.

They went up more than that. Before they started going up (Sept 1976) the UK price for 12.5 hours was £75 full price; the Academy Levels cost £200 for five levels; the SHSBC was £275.

When they first stopped going up, I seem to remember 12.5 hours cost around £1000.

A few years later, they started going up again. I don't recall the exact details at all, but currently 12.5 hours in the UK is about £3000, I believe.

Paul

 

[lionheart]

Yes I'm sure you are right about the detail Paul.

But the point I was making was Ron was lying.

This was the first point where I realised Ron lied. The increases were never going to be "small" and there was no shortage of paper.

Once I knew he was lying about these prices, I realised he could be lying about anything that he said. I never completely trusted him from that point on.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Fair enough. Yes, I remember asking myself, "Small increases?" too. But I carefully brushed aside any disagreements I had.

Paul

 

[lionheart]

Fair enough. Yes, I remember asking myself, "Small increases?" too. But I carefully brushed aside any disagreements I had.

Paul

That was "cognitive disonance"!

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=229528&postcount=643

Scn produced that in us a lot, due to the mryiad contradictions. We either brushed the data that was causing discomfort aside (as you did in this case) or solved the uncomfortable feeling of disonance by believing both contradictory datums (doublethink)

In this case I did neither, I just saw Ron was lying to us. Hence this is my answer to Fluffy's question on this thread. Scn and Ron were never the same to me after these lies.

 

[GreyLensman]

I'd been out of the SO for maybe a year, and had read maybe a thousand hours of stuff online about Hubbard and the CofS and Scn, but hadn't really changed my mind much about it all. Still thought they were basically the good guys with maybe a few rotten apples. Then I saw on TV in LA a program about CAN, the Cult Awareness Network. Heber was on, saying the cult had not organized a letter writing campaign. It was a lie. I knew it was a lie because I knew it was exactly the kind of thing they did. And Heber looked like he was lying. I was shocked. It was a turning point for me.

Paul

I know the feeling.

* "We are not stat pushing Battlefield Earth", while giving staff members money to go to Barnes and Noble or Waldenbooks to buy a hardcover copy of BE...

* "The RTC safeguards the technology" while sec-checking in the middle of a grade (OT VII) is pushed in heavily by... RTC.

* "we respect all religions" and the LRH on the PDCs and SHSBC tapes trashign the hell out of various and sundry religions. He was nattering. Critical because of voerts int he area. Blatant.

* etc

It was not one lie for me - endless series of compromises, on and on. Until my bullshit meter was finally pegged and stuck and I couldn't keep a straight face or suppress the anger any longer.

 

[donotwashbrain]

The books

I have to agree, for me the last straw far as lies goes, was the New Basics book push. LRH should have caught any grammer issues and such. He had years and years...he charge me a whole lot to do the Key to life coures and M9 everything....so I think well...why did we do all that training on how to read thru errors in the study courses...bunch of cr..p,,just to milk more money from all us suckers. I love reading other authors of the world ...I did not want to re read alll that again either.

 

[Kathy (ImOut)]

I got in after LRH died. After years of hearing different versions of the story I decided to search the internet. That got me wondering.

Then I was trying to get in session - my PTS Rundown obviously wasn't sticking and it had been years and the reference says if the PC is still having problems do a correction list. I'd call and request a correction list (or whatever the hell) and was told, we'll send your folders to the C/S and get back to you. I'm still waiting for that phone call. LOL!!! It's been over 3 years, I don't think that call is coming.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I think that for many people, the issue is the lies. That's one of the biggest screw ups the cult could have ever made- lying to us. So they want all this money, all this time from you and from me and from the guy down the road- from everyone- and they lie about all kinds of stuff.

I've noticed that some of the things they felt it necessary to lie about- that Hubbard felt it was necessary to lie about- wouldn't have mattered to loyal adherents. Some would, like fair game and things like that. But hiding some of the stuff about his background or making other things up- that didn't even need to be lied about.

I think a lot of people felt misled, duped and that they were treated like children.

 

[Lynn Fountain Campbell]

Fair enough. Yes, I remember asking myself, "Small increases?" too. But I carefully brushed aside any disagreements I had.

Paul

Yeah, this was me, about a lot of stuff -- for decades. But the last straw for me was trying to do the Golden Age of Tech and finding out it was all about rote memorization.

So Paul, your robot auditor is every bit as good as the "auditors" they're putting out these days -- maybe even better.

Lynn

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

At my parent's knees...

I think that for many people, the issue is the lies. That's one of the biggest screw ups the cult could have ever made- lying to us. So they want all this money, all this time from you and from me and from the guy down the road- from everyone- and they lie about all kinds of stuff.

I've noticed that some of the things they felt it necessary to lie about- that Hubbard felt it was necessary to lie about- wouldn't have mattered to loyal adherents. Some would, like fair game and things like that. But hiding some of the stuff about his background or making other things up- that didn't even need to be lied about.

I think a lot of people felt misled, duped and that they were treated like children.

Reading fluffy's post here this morning a thing my folks were prone to say about con men and unreliable sorts - and also about some people I knew who seemed quite normal and respectable popped into my mind.

"He/she'll tell a lie when the truth would fit better."

Con-men (and con-women) are cut from such cloth, IMHO.

"By their fruits ye shall know them." :wink2:

EP

 

[Dulloldfart]

So Paul, your robot auditor is every bit as good as the "auditors" they're putting out these days -- maybe even better.

Lynn

What a degrade! I would hope my Robot is better. The tech is better, the pc gets more control in the session, the auditor's TRs never go out, no-one else at all gets to read the worksheets, and it costs nothing or next to nothing to address and handle what YOU want, not what some asshole C/S or bulletin says. All in a hassle-free environment, well, whatever your home is like.

Paul

 

[Markus]

Three things which made for me the turning point:

- Scientology using hard sell tactics to create a better world

- the anti-democratic stuff from the Ethics Book and Science of Survival

and the heartless staff members around me using this nonsence without questioning it while I was on staff


caused my

Love

Markus

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I can totally see that. They seem to be constantly testing their limits to see just how much crap a person will take before they give up and leave in disgust. Kind of like really super sociopathic adolescents...

 

[scooter]

The ultimate lie for me came from the CO OSA ANZO who called me specifically to "brief" me that Carmel and Feral had spread the line on the net that the Co$ had killed my daughters - I was so gobsmacked by this I still shake my head in disbelief.

So of course I called Carmel for her response - "read my bloody thread - that's not what I said at all" was her reply.

So I did.

And I've never trusted OSA since.

Great PR Tech at work there, eh?

 

[Zinjifar]

The ultimate lie for me came from the CO OSA ANZO who called me specifically to "brief" me that Carmel and Feral had spread the line on the net that the Co$ had killed my daughters - I was so gobsmacked by this I still shake my head in disbelief.

So of course I called Carmel for her response - "read my bloody thread - that's not what I said at all" was her reply.

So I did.

And I've never trusted OSA since.

Great PR Tech at work there, eh?

Well, you go 'checking' stable datums and they get all wobbly...

Zinj