coming out as an ex cult member

[Boojuum]

Don't let scientology's ideas about "withholds" and "writing up overts and withholds" and "confessionals" screw up your life.

No one outside the cult really wants to hear your confessions except MAYBE others in a 12-step program, or a an impartial, REAL priest or minister when you feel the need to get it off your chest. Those people will do you the kindness of listening, even if they are bored by it, because they understand that sharing your "secrets" is helpful to YOU, not to them.

Sharing your experiences and thoughts here on this forum serves two main purposes: 1) it helps you get it off your mind and thus might bring you some relief; 2) it helps others who have had similar experiences know they are not alone, so it helps to heal the isolation that the cult(ure) imposes on its members by making it taboo to talk about certain things -- such as any talk that would be considered "natter," discussing one's "case," offering up your own ideas and initiative as to how things might be improved (known as "squirreling" in scientology) etc.

Out in the non-scientology world, it's perfectly ok to withhold things; people who run around "confessing" everything all the time are actually a PITA to be around.

Great post and true.

I got out 20 years ago and thought O/W type phenomena ruled the planets. This may have been true but after watching a handful of non-Scieno's look at me as though I were nuts after getting off a WH, I stopped and life is just fine. I don't tell anyone about my Scieno past and see no need to. What would it accomplish? My spouse knows about it but I can't expect comprehension. Further "explanation" would only result in further confusion. How to you explain a billion year contract. How do you explain the insanity of making the world free from insanity by screaming, RPF-ing, stat pushing, and an entirely new language.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

In cult recovery how do you explain to regular people that you were in a cult for years and not have it sound like bs or you were an idiot or knowingly complicit in crimes? How can you be accepted as possibly sane after serving a group less popular than the KKK and that pays SO slaves less than Chinese slave laborers and gives RPFers less rights than convicts and forces young girls to have abortions ? I feel like it's going to be a tough sell to explain mind control , misdirection,etc to people who don't know and don't believe it's possible. I also don't know how to explain going from a fanatic who slavishly loved lrh and would've killed or died for scientology to a critic who doesn't believe any of the doctrine and that just a few months study up to the affirmations and completely stopping thinking in the language has resulted in a complete change in loyalties and beliefs; it just seems like more change than is possible in a human being, especially after decades of cult membership. Please tell me how it's gone for you guys. thanks

MB

you probably will find it helpful to work on regaining YOUR barriers.

One of the things any controlling cult does is to remove the members' personal barriers. The things that, as adults, we erect to keep things private that WE wish to keep private. It does not matter WHY we wish to keep them private - just that we feel the need to and we demand that people respect those barriers. Recovering the ability to enforce that is a key step to getting out of the cult/control mindset.

Most people in the real world have their barriers and instinctively know that others have theirs. Getting to make friends is getting to know what are the barriers and mutual respect. People do not expect you to just open up and tell them things that you are uncomfortable with. It is not the normal run of behavior.

Making YOU feel personally responsible for the insanity of Scientology is probably Hubbard and Scientology's best trick. I know how you feel - believe me. But keep examining the idea and you will start to see how ludicrous it is. How could you possibly be responsible for that insanity? The one thing that we all were - is dumb enough to be fooled by experts.

And yes that is a bitter pill to swallow, none of us like to be taken for a mark. But the way to avoid it happening again is to recover the ability to spot when we are being gamed. It is not a surprise that being a person seeking answers, seeking confirmation for our world view we should be taken in by someone who was very good at making people feel understood and liked. And Hubbard and Scientology spent 3 decades refining the methodology of doing it.

Not many of us, I suspect, got into scientology with the idea that we wanted to rule the world. I suspect most of us bought into the idea that if we made ourselves better then we would make the world better. It is a tempting message.

I would sit down and just examine why you got into Scientology - what was YOUR motivation? So if someone should ever ask you you can just tell them what you were hoping to do and explain that you got fooled. And then you pulled yourself out of it and know better now.

If someone asks you who is not a close friend - just tell them that you prefer not to dwell on mistakes in the past and just leave it at that,. No-one has a RIGHT to know everything about you. No-one. NEVER forget that.

And you will be fine!

 

[Arthur Dent]

In cult recovery how do you explain to regular people that you were in a cult for years and not have it sound like bs or you were an idiot or knowingly complicit in crimes? How can you be accepted as possibly sane after serving a group less popular than the KKK and that pays SO slaves less than Chinese slave laborers and gives RPFers less rights than convicts and forces young girls to have abortions ? I feel like it's going to be a tough sell to explain mind control , misdirection,etc to people who don't know and don't believe it's possible. I also don't know how to explain going from a fanatic who slavishly loved lrh and would've killed or died for scientology to a critic who doesn't believe any of the doctrine and that just a few months study up to the affirmations and completely stopping thinking in the language has resulted in a complete change in loyalties and beliefs; it just seems like more change than is possible in a human being, especially after decades of cult membership. Please tell me how it's gone for you guys. thanks

Hello and welcome mockingbird. Well, the hard truth of the matter is that you are scarred for life as having been in this cult and now out. But the good news is that that scarlet S on your chest is, in fact, invisible to others. And further truth is that, even if they could see it, most people wouldn't care. People all have their own problems and stuff to deal with in their lives and are not, as you were used to in the cult, all that interested in your life. So, do relax. Enjoy the freedom and make the most of it. Now you get to do whatever the hell you want to in your life. Having been in a long time, you may have to work a little harder at things but, truly, the world is your oyster. Have fun with it.

I don't mention it to people anymore and, for the most part, people think I'm rather normal.... whatever that is. I don't find it productive to talk about it and it would only make me feel like crap so what's the point. I do, however, take every opportunity to bring it up in an objective way if the conversation warrants it...discussions about religion or self-help groups, etc. and will most definitely take advantage of the moment and make sure no innocent people get the idea that scientology is wonderful. I vent when I can but I don't put myself in a position where I have to explain myself. That's pointless self-flagellation.

If you never personally had anything to do with forced abortions and such, be very, very grateful for that and focus on rebuilding your life. I get the impression you did not, but If you were, in fact, unfortunate enough to be involved with such actions of the cult mindset you are ashamed of, get some help. Vent here or find a good counselor but get some good help if you need it.

But enjoy your new life, get out in your community and help with things. People love that and you will also. It helps you make new friends and helps you get to know regular folk. Just keep building. And don't look back.

 

[mockingbird]

Thanks Mick, I think what you said is spot on , when dealing with never ins for years I would ask questions that made them uncomfortable as I couldn't spot barriers as such and saw them as outpoints or buttons (H e and R E ) and treated them as case to be ignored in trying to get to the person. After reading your post I realized that that was bullshit and the barriers are an important part of recognizing a person's individuality and right to privacy. I now know I need to work on both establishing barriers for myself as they are my right and spotting and respecting the barriers others put up.

 

[smartone]

In cult recovery how do you explain to regular people that you were in a cult for years and not have it sound like bs or you were an idiot or knowingly complicit in crimes? How can you be accepted as possibly sane after serving a group less popular than the KKK and that pays SO slaves less than Chinese slave laborers and gives RPFers less rights than convicts and forces young girls to have abortions ? I feel like it's going to be a tough sell to explain mind control , misdirection,etc to people who don't know and don't believe it's possible. I also don't know how to explain going from a fanatic who slavishly loved lrh and would've killed or died for scientology to a critic who doesn't believe any of the doctrine and that just a few months study up to the affirmations and completely stopping thinking in the language has resulted in a complete change in loyalties and beliefs; it just seems like more change than is possible in a human being, especially after decades of cult membership. Please tell me how it's gone for you guys. thanks

None of my family members knew I was doing Scientology anyway. I was public and was in it for 22 years. So when I left, I just left and told nobody what I had just left.

I hope you find it easy to handle and I'm sure you'll get lots of stories/advice on ESMB. Lots of good guys on here. We are the sane ones enjoying real freedom.

 

[mockingbird]

Hey the more I think about it the more I think respecting people's barriers and learning when it's okay to open up or encourage them can be a key in developing normal human social skills; I mean to show that I care but don't want to push it ,try too hard or always bring up things people are uncomfortable with but not back away so much as to appear indifferent or uncaring.

 

[Student of Trinity]

I was never in Scientology, nor have I known any current or ex-Scientologists except through their posts on the internet.

I don't find it so hard to understand how a person could have gotten into Scientology, or found some great experiences and great people in Scientology, or stayed in for years because everyone they knew was in Scientology. I file all these things under "dumb mistakes that we all make".

Disconnect comes when someone tries to make me see that Scientology wasn't a dumb mistake, but somehow made profound sense. Then I start thinking, "What?"

 

[Claire Swazey]

Another thing is that our society mainly respects privacy. This means that you don't have to and won't be expected to share details of your life unless you choose to do so

 

[Claire Swazey]

I was never in Scientology, nor have I known any current or ex-Scientologists except through their posts on the internet.

I don't find it so hard to understand how a person could have gotten into Scientology, or found some great experiences and great people in Scientology, or stayed in for years because everyone they knew was in Scientology. I file all these things under "dumb mistakes that we all make".

Disconnect comes when someone tries to make me see that Scientology wasn't a dumb mistake, but somehow made profound sense. Then I start thinking, "What?"

From the perspective of the person involved in it, it did make sense at the time.

 

[Intentionally Blank]

Thanks La La Lou Lou, I guess what I'm dreading is having the task of confronting and explaining the abuses without coming off like a monster. I mean when I discovered the prolific forced abortions and saw those poor girls talking online I felt like crying,throwing up and curling up in a fetal ball at the same time . And I feel others will find this and many other things inexcusable by any standard of human decency. So I feel people won't understand that I for decades censored myself to NEVER see or trust mainstream media and was clueless about this abuse , and while I saw local isolated incidents I thought these were the exception and not the tip of the abhorrent iceberg !
I mean our group ( scientology ) has had truly inhuman crimes to account for and still does them daily so how can we get past that with people so they understand we were fooled into helping psychopathic criminals (dm and lrh)?

Hey the more I think about it the more I think respecting people's barriers and learning when it's okay to open up or encourage them can be a key in developing normal human social skills; I mean to show that I care but don't want to push it ,try too hard or always bring up things people are uncomfortable with but not back away so much as to appear indifferent or uncaring.

MB, I'm a never in so take what I have to say with that in mind. Even being married to a long time scn and seeing what it's done to our family, I can't possibly understand what it's like from your point of view. I did, however, grow up in a christian cult. Nothing even close to scn but with the same types of mind control techniques. I've also been involved in several other cultish groups over the years - mostly in my teens and 20's when I had more time to be passionate about thinking someone had all the answers to saving the world and I wanted to be part of it.

And that's the thing I think about when I read your posts here. Everyone I've met who's either in scn or was at one time and is now out, really believed they were following a path that would bring good to the world. That's a noble and admirable goal. I hope you're proud of being the sort of person who would not only have that kind of goal but who would put your money where your mouth is and jump right in with both feet to make it happen. It takes guts to do that.

If I can digress for a minute.... There's some fascinating research about women who become involved with men who are toxic (i.e. abusive, alcoholic, addicts, unable to hold a job, etc). The personality traits that put women at highest risk for these types of relationships are: intelligence, compassion, empathy, responsibility, and more. In short, the traits that make women most vulnerable to being taken in by disordered men are the very traits we hope our daughters have in abundance. Good, caring, strong, intelligent women. http://www.sott.net/article/228663-The-Unexamined-Victim-Women-Who-Love-Psychopaths

I often wonder if there's been a study of personality traits that make us most vulnerable to being taken in by cultish scam artists such as hubbard. And if there is, I wonder how closely it would mirror the personality traits of these women? Caring, responsible, empathetic..... and with a strong drive to make a difference in the world.

Most women, when they finally break free of these relationship patterns, feel similar shame. They feel as if it's their fault they were duped. Or dropped. Or beaten. Or..... fill in the blank. If only they'd been smarter, prettier, younger, more caring, less caring, younger, older, etc. the relationship would have worked. It often takes many many years for them to come to terms with the fact that he was an assh*** and they fell for it. Giving up the dream and admitting it was never as wonderful as they wanted it to be feels shameful. It's hard, hard, healing work and most want to do it in private -- and maybe never tell anyone how bad it really was. There's a lot of stigma in being abused or scammed.

Some women, when they finally break free, and who have the support system and information to come to terms with what happened to them, want to be part of the crusade to educate other women before the same thing happens to them. They take their stories public pointing out what they could have done differently, where they betrayed their own values, and how they found their way back to safety and sanity.

Neither path is better than the other. And, perhaps both are necessary. If everyone stayed silent evolution and growth would be much slower. If everyone was out crusading it might be too noisy for anyone to hear a thing (although it might be fun to see, hmmm?).

So, my thought of the day for you is this - which is most healing for you? What makes your soul feel whole and safe again? Which allows you to reclaim your integrity and inner peace? Where does your heart bid you go?

Because, in the end, the life you are responsible for is your own. Take care of you, explore your deepest values, define your boundaries and create compassionate safeguards for yourself. I suspect when you do that you'll know how much to share and in what situations.

Best,

Blanky

 

[DeeAnna]

Another never-in here. I too don't find it to be all that unusual that someone would be suckered into joining an organization like $cientology. Especially with the love bombing bit at the beginning. Probably the area that I most still don't truly understand is the staying in. But having never been subjected to brainwashing techniques and all the peer pressure, etc. I've come to the conclusion that unless one actually experienced it, no one can ever really "understand". So be it. But I have a whole lot of compassion for all those who have been through it.

Some things about dealing with people and "barriers" or "boundaries". Boundaries is the term that I am more familiar with. Yes, in general polite people do not probe and delve into asking questions about someone's past. But there are times when some innocent person, in trying to make polite conversation, will stumble into an area that can cause upset. Sometimes people are just stupid, actually.

It is good to have a standard, deflecting short answer pre-rehearsed for such occasions. The one that someone posted about saying you worked for a non-profit agency is pretty good. Another would be "I did missionary work". Another is the old "I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you", said with a smile. "I did government work" is another one. And in followup to "What kind of government work" to answer "Oh, just boring stuff, nothing you'd be interested in".

Normal, polite folks will move on to another topic. They instinctively get it that the subject of their question is not open as a topic of discussion. And the conversation flows on.

BUT, every once in a while you will encounter a person who has little manners, great curiosity, and for whatever reason, a tendency to want to dig into the lives of others. Over the years, I have learned to spot these types pretty readily. And I will go through the polite smiles and the joking rebuffs of their rudeness. Up to a point.

After that, I simply say to them "You seem to have quite a desire to learn about my life. Why is that?" This will usually back them off, because they are most often not used to people confronting them about their unwanted questioning. I always remain polite, but will come back at them with something like "Well, let's talk about your life rather than mine. I'm sure yours is more interesting.".

I agree with the posters here who have said that you do not owe anyone an explanation for your choices in life. Many of us have made some bad choices. We lived and we learned. We changed and we moved on.

mockingbird, you have not been out for very long. Certainly you will have emotional detrius to deal with. Surely posting here will help you. You may need more. There are counselors who specifically work with people who were in a cult. Don't know if you need or want that, but there seem to be plenty here who participated in counseling and found it to be beneficial.

Oh, and as far as language usage goes, I do think "boundaries" fits better than "barriers".

Best wishes to you mockingbird!

 

[TG1]

I don't tell anyone.

My husband knows. And one friend (who was never in, but who knows some other exes). And she's been sworn to secrecy of the highest order!

I think all my acquaintances and friends would be completely confused by that information. And I don't plan to confuse them.

Sounds to me like you're starting to look at this from some different angles already.

 

[TheSpectator]

In cult recovery how do you explain to regular people that you were in a cult for years and not have it sound like bs or you were an idiot or knowingly complicit in crimes?

The first thing for me was to accept that I was a fool. After that, realizing that there may be no happy ending to this. I will probably feel as much a fool 20 years from now as I do today. But I think there are positive lessons out of this too: A large slice of humble pie can provide better judgement in life and better friends.

I also think it's different for each person depending on their personality and involvement. I was public and already drifting off lines for 10 years before I finally left. I'd stopped speaking Scientologese except around Scientologist but even then I moderated how much I spoke. For someone who was in the SO or otherwise deeply involved with Scientology the decompression time could be several years or more.

Pre-1986 Scientology was also a much more positive group. People seemed to receive actual help, and Clear and OT seemed possible. The darkness of Scientology was still well-hidden.

 

[TheSpectator]

Another never-in here. I too don't find it to be all that unusual that someone would be suckered into joining an organization like $cientology. Especially with the love bombing bit at the beginning. Probably the area that I most still don't truly understand is the staying in. But having never been subjected to brainwashing techniques and all the peer pressure, etc. I've come to the conclusion that unless one actually experienced it, no one can ever really "understand". So be it. But I have a whole lot of compassion for all those who have been through it.

Some things about dealing with people and "barriers" or "boundaries". Boundaries is the term that I am more familiar with. Yes, in general polite people do not probe and delve into asking questions about someone's past. But there are times when some innocent person, in trying to make polite conversation, will stumble into an area that can cause upset. Sometimes people are just stupid, actually.

Pre-Internet the dark side of Scientology wasn't well known. We believed that Scientology is truth and that only a small handful of suppressive were campaigning against it. Hubbard kept his lies hidden for decades. Gerry Armstrong was the one, in my opinion, who really opened the doors to Scientology's true nature. The last 5 years have changed this a lot for Scientology. Too many people speaking out and there are no good results out of Scientology.

The problem for many Scientologists is they don't understand the concept of boundaries. Hubbard had several Bulletins that talked about invading privacy and that privacy was only a social mechanism. Scientologists are wont to discuss their most private thoughts or actions so they don't suffer the consequences of a Missed Withhold! Too many Sec Checks so we were used to talking about our lives too much! Most ex-Scientologists would do well to understand that normal people respect boundaries. That and most people DON'T want to hear about all your personal crap!

 

[Gib]

Pre-Internet the dark side of Scientology wasn't well known. Hubbard kept his lies hidden for decades. Gerry Armstrong was the one, in my opinion, who really opened the doors to Scientology's true nature. So we believed that Scientology is truth and that only a small handful of suppressive were campaigning against it. The last 5 years have changed this a lot for Scientology. Too many people speaking out and no good results out of Scientology.

The problem for many Scientologists is they don't understand the concept of boundaries. Hubbard had several Bulletins that talked about invading privacy and that privacy was only a social mechanism. Scientologists are wont to discuss their most private thoughts or actions so they don't suffer the consequences of a Missed Withhold! Too many Sec Checks so we were used to talking about our lives too much! Most ex-Scientologists would do well to understand that normal people respect boundaries. That and most people DON'T want to hear about all your personal crap!

It's too funny really, but not really

from the link you provided:

"Confession is a big part of Scientology. In Scientology, though, confessions are documented in "PC Folders", and the folders are culled for embarassing or illegal episodes that can then be used to blackmail individuals. In addition, Scientologists are subjected to - and charged money for - mandatory "security checks", full of invasive questions about sex, crimes, and negative thoughts about Hubbard and Scientology."

Once a person gets thru Grade 0, or being willing to talk to anybody (actually just an auditor in real life) about anything, why the next few steps up the bridge are disclosing all overts and withholds, Grade 2 release.

But once one is hypnotized into believing they can talk to anybody about anything (but doesn't occur in real life, only to the auditor), why when the Sec Checks are ordered (I'm not auditing you), a person talks and talks thinking they are being released of their bank, their reactive mind. Bait and switch it is.

 

[Claire Swazey]

It's too funny really, but not really

from the link you provided:



Once a person gets thru Grade 0, or being willing to talk to anybody (actually just an auditor in real life) about anything, why the next few steps up the bridge are disclosing all overts and withholds, Grade 2 release.

But once one is hypnotized into believing they can talk to anybody about anything (but doesn't occur in real life, only to the auditor), why when the Sec Checks are ordered (I'm not auditing you), a person talks and talks thinking they are being released of their bank, their reactive mind. Bait and switch it is.

I liked Grade 2. Cried, etc. Very cathartic.

But, that being said, there is no way anyone should trust Cof $ with such confessions.

 

[David C Gibbons]

When the situation is right, and I'm talking about my life to a friend or a close acquaintance, I happily talk about 'the nasty cult of Scientology', and my involvement in it. My intent when I do so is to speak in witness to the rotten nature of Scientology, in the hope that the person I am speaking to becomes more aware of the danger Scientology poses. If they think less of me, so be it. It is more important to me that the truth about Scientology be known.

 

[Gib]

I liked Grade 2. Cried, etc. Very cathartic.

But, that being said, there is no way anyone should trust Cof $ with such confessions.

When you tell anybody of your crimes

you give them power over you.

How's that for spiritual freedom?

What about just education to resolve the matter?

Or proper education to begin with?

Isn't that what religion was trying to be?

You know learning the ten commandments from one's upbringing?

Hubbard seems to be late on the chain?

And I am not talking about believing in a god.

 

[Claire Swazey]

When you tell anybody of your crimes

you give them power over you.

How's that for spiritual freedom?

What about just education to resolve the matter?

Or proper education to begin with?

Isn't that what religion was trying to be?

You know learning the ten commandments from one's upbringing?

Hubbard seems to be late on the chain?

And I am not talking about believing in a god.

I didn't focus on crimes. I ran out "overts".

 

[sallydannce]

This was a big issue for me when I first began re-building my life. My whole identity was connected to scientology, for 20 years.

In the beginning I felt such overwhelming shame about my involvement. I didn't want anyone to know, and I wanted everyone to know. Yeah a paradox. I felt like I should somehow be held accountable for my participation in something so cruel, so toxic. Conversely I wanted to shove my head in the sand and somehow forget it all ever happened. I dreamed of starting a new life in a new country, where no one could possibly link me to the cult. Instead I stayed put - and faced myself. Not a pretty sight.

I knew nothing about boundaries. The cult strips them away and violates them, heavily, so I had to learn how to define what was acceptable to me and how life worked without a head full of "Hubbard advisory crap" running on automatic, permeating every thought.

I did some work on shame (check out Brene Brown's vids on Youtube). I explored my shame, I wrote about it , I sat with it, I felt it. I went into battle with own internal shame. And then I moved through my inner shame-turmoil stage (about my participation in scientology), and headed towards an inner reconciliation. And peace kept growing.

Only my inner intimate circle know about my cult background. This includes my doctor and therapist, my closest friends and my family. We talk about it in a very accepting way, calm and without any fanfare. They ask me questions about cults knowing I will answer them as honestly as I can. I'm sort of this "cult advisor" person which is kinda funny. We joke about it. I make insane jokes about it all. My nearest and dearest know how much I struggled to leave the cult and the wonderful opportunities that have arisen because of my leaving. They are my support crew, they cheer me on, quietly. These days it's a good news story all the way. It's been a long tricky journey to get to this place of peace and calm. I think I am very very blessed.

I don't have any shame about having been in scientology. By that I mean, I can talk about it - or not. I've sort of let most of it go. Perhaps this is what "healing" is. I'm not willing to define such a concept. All I know is I made a terrible mistake, I hurt people, did some awful things but I'm doing my very best to move forward in a much healthier way. The experience doesn't define me. I define me. Right now.

I also left an abusive relationship as I left scientology. I also don't let that define me. I'm not out to save the world or anyone else. However I do share my cult stuff, or my abusive relationship stuff, when I sense it may be comforting to another. Abuse leaves a person feeling very isolated, very alone, so I like to gently put my hand up and offer a little support when appropriate. I feel zero compulsion to do so though. I guess it's all about common sense, not over-thinking it, letting go and stuff like that.

I did scientology for 20 years. That's a long time. It has taken a few years to get it, mostly, sorted out in my head and work out what life means, for me. The journey continues.