Keegan4123
New Member
I am sorry but I don't understand your comment. How can you say the church is not important if it is the organization itself that has caused all this pain.
General Interpretation of Anonymous vs CoS War??
- Thread starter Keegan4123
- Start date
I am sorry but I don't understand your comment. How can you say the church is not important if it is the organization itself that has caused all this pain.
Björkist
Silver Meritorious Patron
Duddins,
I feel you and I "know" you are not a bandwagoner. Any disgust or doubt you may sense from me is not directed towards you or anyone who experienced these things directly, indirectly, at the hands of the CofS or not...
I agree that abuses against humanity need to be brought to light and remedied. It truly sucks that you and your brother went through such things.
What I see is the uninformed and ignorant being played upon...not just about this latest fad of being anti-Scientology/anti-CofS, but with regards to many things that are "normal" in modern life...you know...consumer mania, dwindling education, test tube drugs passed out like candy, multi-national corporations controlling governments, war and war profiteering, etc.
And you know that certain individuals in certain communities/professions who are "wacking their cocks" (pardon my language) over these latest developments...
I feel you and I "know" you are not a bandwagoner. Any disgust or doubt you may sense from me is not directed towards you or anyone who experienced these things directly, indirectly, at the hands of the CofS or not...
I agree that abuses against humanity need to be brought to light and remedied. It truly sucks that you and your brother went through such things.
What I see is the uninformed and ignorant being played upon...not just about this latest fad of being anti-Scientology/anti-CofS, but with regards to many things that are "normal" in modern life...you know...consumer mania, dwindling education, test tube drugs passed out like candy, multi-national corporations controlling governments, war and war profiteering, etc.
And you know that certain individuals in certain communities/professions who are "wacking their cocks" (pardon my language) over these latest developments...
Veda
Sponsor
I'm not saying that it's unimportant, only that one of the ploys used by Scientology Inc. - and its helpers - is to make that assertion.
Scientology Inc. wants to be viewed as "indispensable" and "unstoppable" and "dangerous" to those who would not "cooperate" with it; or - at other times - as so insignificant that it should be ignored and forgotten.
Either way, people ("Wogs," "SPs," "DBs," etc.) are supposed to do what Scientology Inc. wants:
SHUT UP ABOUT SCIENTOLOGY!
duddins
Patron Meritorious
Thanks Bjorkist...I think that you are saying what needs to be said. What we consider 'the norm' in our times and how people react to what is 'IN THE NEWS', does factor in.
I hope my comments have helped to keep it in perspective that certainly there will be protesters that have no idea what is really going on, but there will also be those of us that are finally finding a voice.
Hopefully the former does not outshine the latter.
My Best Bjorkist!
What was the Hubbard quote? Something along the lines of 'The only discussion of Scientology in the newspapers should be in the religion section'
Zinj
Veda
Sponsor
One of the creepiest things about watching Scientology Inc. do its thing ("SURVIVE!"), is that it never stops being sneaky and manipulative. It really can't stop.
duddins
Patron Meritorious
In the end...that is really all that they have.
Hanover Fist
Patron with Honors
I cannot answer them. How can I say why local and federal law enforcement does not investigate and prosecute these cases? The purpose of my 'long-winded' posts was to hopefully illuminate why your argument was a dead-end street in the first place. My ability or inability to answer your questions has no standing on whether your argument is valid or not. And it is not. For the reasons stated.
On the other hand if you are honestly calling for an investigation of these crimes and feel the same righteous indignation many others feel at this "Church" acting the way it does, then I whole-heartedly support you.
So, which is it?
Hanover Fist
PS You know this part was quite priceless:
I have made an attempt to keep this discussion on the argument and avoid ad hominem attacks. I suggest you try and do the same. I know they are satisfying, but it is yet another fallacy.
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johnAnchovie
Still raging
HannoverFist
I am a person whom, in carrying out my assigned duties as an officer of The Church of Scientology International, and The Church of Scientology Religious Education College Inc. abused a small number of individual’s right to freedom of their person. I caused harm to their person and harm to their mental state. I was also abused by CoS (including imprisonment) and witnessed abuses by others in the name of that same organisation.
That what was done to me, that what I carried out in Scientology’s name and those abuses I witnessed, were never prosecuted by the legal authorities in the countries in which they occurred, they were covered up with some considerable skill - see my article on Alice, the nineteen year old cripple www.orato.com.
Recent legislation in my country has empowered victims of child abuse to come forward and prosecute action against the abusers, much of the motivation for the adjusted legislation – emphasis on the rights of the individual child, as opposed to the previous system that sublimated those rights to that of ‘the family’. This came about as result of the stories of some of these children being taken up and championed by the broad public media. Media took up stories as a result of the actions of a small group people involved in rape crisis centres, books and protests. The whole issue equal rights for women, legal contraception and the recognition of a married woman as an individual under the law came about as result of a groundswell of outrage channelled by a small group of activists for woman’s rights. – Such may be old news in America, but was only in the late 1980's equal rights were enshrined in law here in my homeland.
The government will not move to do anything about this cult’s abuse of its fallacious position as a religion, it claims not be a business, yet it is listed as a corporation, and owns several sub corporations. It claims protection from scrutiny by the authorities – a school cannot, but a religious institution can.
If this cult’s quasi military management were dismantled, and the individual ‘local’ centres allowed to operate independently, then I think there would be little harm done, most Scientologists are after all very decent people, but they are lorded over by the Sea Org, an organisation that holds absolute power to dictate anything that happens in remote scientology delivery centres, ask any former Class V organisation staff, It is in Sea Org that the majority of abuses are perpetuated, planned, ordered and in most cases, executed.
The Scientology public, the staffs in the orgs and missions are in reality human shields for the Sea Org, which is in fact a human shield for a small elite corps run by David Miscavaige.
The authorities will not act except in individually prosecuted cases, the Church tends to settle out of court so that further scrutiny of the operation is avoided, they do not want to be scrutinised, this works to give the Sea Organisation a free reign to carry on abusing people, stealing money and silencing dissent where it might occur.
I applaud the work of anonymous; it is a protest against the right of an organisation to operate what amounts to a separate state within the state, a dictatorship, with its very own prison camps, and a people devoting sole loyalty to a capricious entity outside of the legally constituted state in which it operates. People in the Sea Org, and to a lesser extent in the remote Scientology centres, have had their constitutional rights to their freedom subsumed by the leaders of this cult. They have no power, they have no freedom of thought, and they, while under command of the cult, have forfeited their rights of access to protection by constitutional law.
The Anonymous movement is not that of ‘band-Wagoners, it is a collusion of free people practicing their civil right to protest against wrong. The action is empowering them, it is empowering those of us who are now out and it will empower many others to feel that they have a say, that they can do something about the society around them, it may go so far as to remind people that they can exercise their power to elect and unselect whatever government they put there to look after their interests. This Scn thing may well be only a practice run.
I am a person whom, in carrying out my assigned duties as an officer of The Church of Scientology International, and The Church of Scientology Religious Education College Inc. abused a small number of individual’s right to freedom of their person. I caused harm to their person and harm to their mental state. I was also abused by CoS (including imprisonment) and witnessed abuses by others in the name of that same organisation.
That what was done to me, that what I carried out in Scientology’s name and those abuses I witnessed, were never prosecuted by the legal authorities in the countries in which they occurred, they were covered up with some considerable skill - see my article on Alice, the nineteen year old cripple www.orato.com.
Recent legislation in my country has empowered victims of child abuse to come forward and prosecute action against the abusers, much of the motivation for the adjusted legislation – emphasis on the rights of the individual child, as opposed to the previous system that sublimated those rights to that of ‘the family’. This came about as result of the stories of some of these children being taken up and championed by the broad public media. Media took up stories as a result of the actions of a small group people involved in rape crisis centres, books and protests. The whole issue equal rights for women, legal contraception and the recognition of a married woman as an individual under the law came about as result of a groundswell of outrage channelled by a small group of activists for woman’s rights. – Such may be old news in America, but was only in the late 1980's equal rights were enshrined in law here in my homeland.
The government will not move to do anything about this cult’s abuse of its fallacious position as a religion, it claims not be a business, yet it is listed as a corporation, and owns several sub corporations. It claims protection from scrutiny by the authorities – a school cannot, but a religious institution can.
If this cult’s quasi military management were dismantled, and the individual ‘local’ centres allowed to operate independently, then I think there would be little harm done, most Scientologists are after all very decent people, but they are lorded over by the Sea Org, an organisation that holds absolute power to dictate anything that happens in remote scientology delivery centres, ask any former Class V organisation staff, It is in Sea Org that the majority of abuses are perpetuated, planned, ordered and in most cases, executed.
The Scientology public, the staffs in the orgs and missions are in reality human shields for the Sea Org, which is in fact a human shield for a small elite corps run by David Miscavaige.
The authorities will not act except in individually prosecuted cases, the Church tends to settle out of court so that further scrutiny of the operation is avoided, they do not want to be scrutinised, this works to give the Sea Organisation a free reign to carry on abusing people, stealing money and silencing dissent where it might occur.
I applaud the work of anonymous; it is a protest against the right of an organisation to operate what amounts to a separate state within the state, a dictatorship, with its very own prison camps, and a people devoting sole loyalty to a capricious entity outside of the legally constituted state in which it operates. People in the Sea Org, and to a lesser extent in the remote Scientology centres, have had their constitutional rights to their freedom subsumed by the leaders of this cult. They have no power, they have no freedom of thought, and they, while under command of the cult, have forfeited their rights of access to protection by constitutional law.
The Anonymous movement is not that of ‘band-Wagoners, it is a collusion of free people practicing their civil right to protest against wrong. The action is empowering them, it is empowering those of us who are now out and it will empower many others to feel that they have a say, that they can do something about the society around them, it may go so far as to remind people that they can exercise their power to elect and unselect whatever government they put there to look after their interests. This Scn thing may well be only a practice run.
Boudicca
Patron
Lovesnightsky
Silver Meritorious Patron
My daughter was sexually abused during an "assist". I was going to go to the police and was taken to a room and kept there until I was convinced that Scientology Ethics handling was a lot more powerful than any "wog" justice.
I cannot tell you how sorry I am for letting myself be convinced of this stupid notion. The man who did this is still out there free to abuse other girls.
Now my daughter wants to delete all this from her life, she is happily married and does not want to go to the police.
This is one way that these things do happen and a reason that scientologists do not go to the police.
Bea Kiddo
Crusader
There are at least 5 instances of this I know of off the top of my head.
Mine being one of them.
Except the police were involved.
And we lied to them.
And the guy got away.
(That is part of Part II of my story I havent told yet). Maybe I will, when the time is right.
Alanzo
Bardo Tulpa
Maybe if the Church abolishes the enforced abortions, and the enforced disconnections, allows freedom of speech and full rights for Scientologists, and DM resigns - you won't have to tell it!
Boudicca
Patron
I'm so sorry this happened to you. I understand why you don't want to speak about it. But I can tell you from personal experience that speaking out takes away the abusers power over you and empowers yourself. Maybe someday you'll be ready to talk about it, and maybe you won't. Trust that whatever decision you make is the right one for you.
It's my greatest hope that when David Miscavige and his gang of cowardly, abusive bullies are brought to justice that victims of the Co$ will be able to file class action suits.
Not for the money, because money will not restore what was taken from you. But because money and power are what DM values most, stripping it from him is reparation. It's justice.
Div6
Crusader
Hmmmm...I'm thinking maybe Valentines Day? We'll buy you some nice chocolate, and a rad new gps for your geocaching jones? You know, raise your havingness so its OK that you let the truth be known....?
johnAnchovie
Still raging
Terril park
Sponsor
Colleen K. Peltomaa
Silver Meritorious Patron
No sexual abuse, except that for some reason I did get keyed-in when the Div 6 courseroom supervisor (I was on course in Div 6 at the time) called me at my home and asked for a date and then followed up with some yucky phone calls. They tried to make me wrong but when I insisted that I was keyed-in about it and would they be kind enough to give me a little auditing as an assist I did get some Self Analysis run. Ran out the charge and came uptone about the incident. The Div 6 in charge person at that time was a chronic 2.0 case so I was lucky I got that much help.
Hanover Fist
Patron with Honors
Bea Kiddo, johnAnchovie, Lovesnightsky, and all others who are coming out with your stories...I APPLAUD YOU
It takes an incredible amount of guts to tell your stories and it cannot be overstated how much courage you have to speak out.
I too believe that most of the people (the overwhelming majority, really) in Scientology are good people looking for help. I think the key to opening the public's eyes (as well as giving those currently in Scientology the courage to escape) are your stories. The truth. As it has been said, sunshine is the best disinfectant.
Hanover Fist
It takes an incredible amount of guts to tell your stories and it cannot be overstated how much courage you have to speak out.
I too believe that most of the people (the overwhelming majority, really) in Scientology are good people looking for help. I think the key to opening the public's eyes (as well as giving those currently in Scientology the courage to escape) are your stories. The truth. As it has been said, sunshine is the best disinfectant.
Hanover Fist
respectful_anon
Patron
Bea Kiddo, johnAnchovie, Lovesnightsky, and all others who are coming out with your stories...I APPLAUD YOU
It takes an incredible amount of guts to tell your stories and it cannot be overstated how much courage you have to speak out.
I too believe that most of the people (the overwhelming majority, really) in Scientology are good people looking for help. I think the key to opening the public's eyes (as well as giving those currently in Scientology the courage to escape) are your stories. The truth. As it has been said, sunshine is the best disinfectant.
Hanover Fist
Very well said Hanover.
The more Anonymous' read these things, the more angry we are that it took this long for something to happen. As always, you're only fueling our motivation that much more -- it will come to an end, the truth is out there.
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