hi

[Ananon]

You are doing very well, imnot! You are braver than you give yourself credit for...

And as far as being terrified of getting declared, well there's a number of potential consquences, but not all are as bad as they seem.

Are you afraid of losing your eternal salvation? That nonsense! Moslims understand this: you only have to speak out that you are a believer to be one. You will still be a scientologist if you leave. No organization has a right to dictate your value as a human being or a scientologist. That's just plain silly.

Gag orders and freeloader dept? These are not worth a second of your concern, as they are plainly illegal.

That leaves disconnection, and that is a nasty bugger. I think it is important to make a distinction to make a difference between friends and family.

Regarding friends, you know, just read that beautiful sig you have: 'I'll be your friend for a billion years'. If he meant that, he will still be your friend if you choose to leave Scientology, because simply that's what being friends is about: supporting each other. And if there are friends who choose to cut ties, I promise you you will find new and better friends in due time. Life just works that way.

If you have family in, well, that's a difficult matter. You might do wisely do go 'good roads fair weather' to avoid getting declared. This is being done by many people, including some on this board.

I know things are confusing at the moment, and they will continue to be as you read more about what's behind the curtains. As an outsider, I cannot say I know what it is like, I can only wish you strength and your posts show that you have it.

And if it gets too much, take a break and do some things that you enjoy...

Good luck!

 

[Alanzo]

Hold the phone
I just got started looking at the friends of LRH website
WTF DM is squirreling
Im kinda pissed off now
"These glossary's are so good you don't need a dictionary" ~ DM

Someone so didn't pay attention during BSM

Quick someone get me some acorns to throw at the COB's head

I kinda feel like I should write an ethics report on the guy but Im not sure how far that would go

I've done that.

The story of what happened to me afterward is very interesting.

Keep reading, keep looking, keep evaluating ALL the data on Scientology - not just the data from the Church. Be sure to look at court documents, sworn affidavits from eye witnesses. Read the stories from exes from all over the world and from many different time eras. An important set of patterns emerge that is vital data when considering how deeply you wish to be involved in Scientology, and how you personally should approach it.

If you do that, you can find the way that your heart knows is true for you.

Your heart is NOT your reactive mind.

It is the real you.

Each of us, knowing ALL the data, has developed our own unique approach to Scientology which corresponds to our own sense of integrity, and what our own heart knows.

Don't ever let anyone cut your reach for the truth.

Welcome to ESMB, I'mNot!

 

[DCAnon]

Hello! Here's the links I promised in the chat thingy.

Claire Headley's case: http://realitybasedcommunity.net/documents/claire-headley_v_CSI-RTC.htm

Marc Headley's case: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=10157

Laura Ann DeCrescenzo's case: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=10697&highlight=lawsuit

I know it's overwhelming, but make up your own mind. What's true for you is true, but you've got to make sure you're working with all the data so you can evaluate everything and make the decisions for yourself whatever they might be. Just be happy!

And if you're feeling down...here's a little something to pick you up. http://icanhascheezburger.com/ and http://cakewrecks.blogspot.com/

 

[Cherished]

If you find those court documents that DC mentioned a bit hard going, Imnot, you can read Marc's and Laura's stories at the site that Ananon mentioned before: http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/2009/03/introduction.html

There you go. you've got enough reading now to keep you going for weeks!

Don't let yourself get overwhelmed, though. There's no rush.

 

[Zephyr]

Basically Im just working on my doubt formula to see if I should stay in or get out. Right now Im kinda confused and don't really know what to do.

IF you are thinking about "applying" the doubt formula, it might help to question everything. I say this because many things Scientology foists off on you are lies.

"They" say you are in doubt about Scientology, well, maybe you're not.

The other thing is, get into touch with a bunch of people here who once were members and also opinions of some here who are part of the FreeZone.

Rob

 

[Zephyr]

DON'T HAVE TO DO FORMULA!

Ok well you need to THOROUGHLY investigate the stats of both sides - spend as much time as you need exploring both sides of the picture.

I don't know how much history you've had with Scientology so I'm not sure what you need to look at.

I suggest you have a look at www.friendsoflrh.org for starters - it is very truthful in what it says and doesn't attempt to do anything but lay out the facts.

Have fun exploring the world of both sides and let me know if you need any help with anything - I'm sure the other members here will also be as helpful as possible.

HE/SHE doesn't have to do Doubt Formula! SCN says that's a solution but who says that's a correct way to resulve anything!

If I were in doubt about SCN, it doesn't make sense to so what they say.

Talk to your friends. Talk to people here. Get ahold of some real Old Timers who've been into it forever.

Like Mystic said... don't do anything... relax.

Rob

 

[Zephyr]

Hello and welcome to the board, Imnotsupposedtobehere!

Firstly, to avoid being ID'd, do not post specific details that apply only to you. Also do not post your org or city. Do not date specific incidents. Do not give your name to people in PMs unless you really trust them. Check their posting history carefully. There is the odd spy among us though most of the people on this board are genuine ex Scientologists and very good people. You couln't ask for a nicer bunch of SPs anywhere.

As for your doubt formula, the best thing you can do is get all the data you can. It's part of informing yourself honestly of the intentions, products and statistics of both sides. There is a page on the Ex Sea Org website with some statistical data that can help you with that.

http://www.exseaorg.com/[

I'd also have a read of Through the door interviews. Lots of people have written up their answers to the 10 questions about why they left.

[URL="http://alley.ethercat.com/door/"]http://alley.ethercat.com/door/

This site had heaps of personal stories and data.

There are a couple of great books about LRH and Scientology. Bare faced Messiah is a great biography of LRH and has things in it that the CoS won't tell you. Read it here:

Bare-faced Messiah

A Piece of Blue Sky is an excellent read about the CoS into the 1970's.

A piece of Blue Sky

Now that should keep you busy for a couple of years...

As you read, just ask any questions you have as you go. Lots of help available here.

Good advice, K.

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Suggested on chat...

A Beatles song - Welcome, "IMSTBH" EP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtLKerPiZU4

 

[Cherished]

Imnot, this video is sure to lift your spirits!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlfKdbWwruY&feature=channel_page

Make sure you watch it in HD, okay?

 

[anonomog]

Good luck Imnotsupposetobehere ,
You may find this site of interest too:http://askthescientologist.blogspot.com/

 

[Tiger Lily]

Imnot, this video is sure to lift your spirits!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlfKdbWwruY&feature=channel_page

Make sure you watch it in HD, okay?

Love that!!!! Thanks

 

[Wisened One]

Welcome!

to ESMB, I'm Not

I know how you must be feeling...I don't know how long you've been in scn, but it sounds like you maybe still in the 'high' stages of it. Perhaps you've had some auditing and done some courses to where you've had lots of wins? They sure do feel good, don't they?

A lot of times, a recruiter will talk to you right after you've gotten auditing or finished a course and are feeling 'high' feeling on top of the world.

Then you hear of their lofty 'goals' and your heart swells..you get goosebumps. You want to be a part of this 'elite group' of the Sea Org (or even Staff) and feel the personal pride of having helped 'Clear The Planet'.

MANY of us here felt the same things you must be feeling right now...just the fact that you are posting here tho, shows that you must have questions, and we are glad you had the courage to post!

Just keep reading here. Look at all those useful vids and links others have given you.

INFORM yourself fully, ok?

If you are right now are feeling that you want the Tech, as others have said, there is Freezone and other similar groups who's got good workabilities (imho) like Knowledgism and Idenics.

I wish you luck, and hope you keep posting here, I remember how scared I was, too! But here I am over two years later....and nothing's happened to me whatsoever.

Michelle

 

[Imnotsupposetobehere]

Thanks so much every one
things are slowly getting brighter

 

[Been Done Had]

Wow! What a reception!

Lots of great advice and what must seem a truckload of links and data to absorb.

I've been where you are, I was utterly caved in after an ethics cycle and thought my eternity was lost.

I got over that pretty quick and mocked up an incredible life I never would be able to have in the church. Never.

Sounds like they got you on the help button. I don't see SO members out in the world helping anyone. They hide on base, sealed off from the planet they are supposed to salvage. Uptrending GI does not equal helping the fourth dynamic. It doesn't.

Look at the Jesuits, it's a strict religious order with ethics similar to the Sea Org -- No 2D, vow of poverty, etc. But they are IN THE WORLD helping people per their belief system. There are many famous Jesuits and they have left a mark on history and the world.

The SO leaves no mark. None. Survey your wog friends on what they know about the church. You will quickly see the public (non scio public) reach is not there. The only reason I bring that up is it does not match the picture painted by Int management.

Anyway, all you have to do right now is relax and be yourself. The bank is not pulling your strings and making your thoughts suspect. You are you. Enjoy yourself and your life. Take a walk. Watch TV. Read. Make friends. Go out to eat. Sleep and dream. Find your inner voice and listen to it and trust it. You will make the right decision. Maybe you will go back to the EPF. Maybe not. Make your decisions from a high toned place. Not confusion of fear of loss.

No matter what you do you will be fine!

Remember the most powerful word in the world is "no."

 

[OliviaZero]

Welcome, INSTBH.

I just dont know but I made the promise to be there
So Im kinda fighting ethic with ethic here

Ah, but your promise was made upon incomplete and/or erroneous information, so you could not give them informed consent. If you were going to sign on for a billion years, don't you think the least that you deserved in exchange from the COS was the truth?

I think that if you choose to, you can consider that SO contract invalid, and not have to think any less of yourself at all in doing so. Certainly no one here will think less of you (in fact, we'd more likely throw you a party ).

I commend you for having the courage to take an honest look at things, and to follow your gut and your heart to where they lead you. I think you are very brave, indeed.

 

[Zephyr]

So IMNOT, you know, it hasn't been said, but, you could just go back on staff in the SO. During that time they'll probably give you some dandy security checks and make you do some chores no one else will do. You'll be able to go back on course., eventually. Figure out what they want to see and then give it to them. If you then decide to leave again, down the road, you can always come back here any time.

It's funny, but my suggesting the above comes from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome many old timers here either are or have gone through whereas you have nitemares about being still on staff. I figure you're a sincere, good natured person and should get "going back on staff" out of the way. . Don't forget to write that KR on DeMon while you're there.

Oh... if you're in Cincinnatti, please send me a PM because I know who you're dealing with.

Rob

The point is, if you really decide to leave, they aren't going to gut you if you do.

Also, if you just really want to do Hubbardisms, I'b be willing to bet there's a lot more of that going on here in the field than in organized Scientology

 

[FoTi]

Welcome INSTBH.

I'm glad you had the courage to communicate here.

The truth can sometimes be a bit of a shock. :shock:

There's lots of experience you can read about from Scientologists who post on this website, all the way from people who worked with LRH and were in Scientology back in the 50's and 60's, all the way up to the present. It's quite fascinating.

Most of the people here are very friendly and quite helpful.

Just take your time ..... the more you read, the more you will learn, and there's a lot to learn.

 

[Kha Khan]

Now Im beginning to think I don't want to be in SO expecially if the tech is being squirreled
but I made the promise to be there
So Im kinda fighting ethic with ethic here

It is good to want to keep one's promises, and to perform one's contractual obligations, but there are at least two relevant considerations.

First, a promise, and indeed a contractual promise, obtained or extracted by means of a fraudulent representation is not binding. In this context, you made your promise to join the Sea Org based on the express promise that the Tech was not squirreled. (See KSW#1). But you said it yourself, the Tech has been squirreled. Therefore, the representation upon which you relied is false, and your promise is not binding.

It is simple contract law. I offer to sell you a "vintage" coin for $100, and represent that it was minted in 1905. You agree. Before we can complete the transaction, you discover that the coin was actually minted in 1995, and the second "9" was carefully altered to look like a "0." Are you still obligated to pay me $100 for the coin? Of course not.

The COS offered you unaltered, pure, non-squirreled Tech in exchange for your promise to join the Sea Org. You have discovered that the Tech has indeed been squirreled. Are you still obligated to perform your promise to join the Sea Org? Again, of course not.

Secondly, while keeping one's promises and performing one's contractual obligations are important, there are other things that are more important. I can promise, and indeed contractually promise, to join, and use my best efforts to further the goals of, a group. I then later learn the group performs evil acts. It deceives people. It coerces people. It discriminates against people. It knowingly causes people to go into financial ruin. Under such circumstances, keeping one's promise, performing one's contractual obligation, is not moral or ethical.

What are you going to tell the defrauded person? "I had to, I promised the group that defrauded you that I would aid it."

What are you going to tell the disconnected minor child? "I promised the COS that I would always do what I was ordered, so I had no choice but to tell your parents, your brothers and sisters, your entire family not to talk to you."

What are you going to tell the "Illegal PC?" "Yes, I know that we've told you that Auditing is your only hope, and that this is terribly invalidating, hurtful and painful, but the COS said you're an Illegal PC, and I have no choice but to enforce that rule."

And when you, like me, run into a psychiatrist in public outside an event, and he asks you if you are a Scientologist, and then asks you if you really, truly believe that he is EVIL -- that his intent is to harm and enslave people -- what are you doing to say? Are you going to tell him, to his face, that he is EVIL? Are you going to tell him, to his face, that his intent is to harm and enslave people?

Are you?

Are you going to say, "But I promised to aid the COS......?"

Or will you tell them nothing, say noting, because you are too embarrassed and ashamed?

 

[Human Again]

my 2 cents

Hi I'mnotsupposedtobehere,

My two cents worth starts with :In order to know what to do you have to know what y ou want. So what do you want? For thenext few weeks and months and for your life?

And my 2 cents ends with, I gave the SO the formative years of my early adulthood and have come to the conclusion that the SO betrayed every promise made to me while I worked my butt off. I too was left in a "no communication.... don't go to the org, we're not here to talk to either..." postition after almost a decade of faithful service and while still 100% committed to the cause. So make sure you are not imagining that the SO will change how it communicates with you. Sad but true.

Hugs, glad you are feeling better. I fyou want to communicate less openly you can use the PM function. I'll send you one in case you haven't used it yet.

 

[rich]

I'mnotsupposedtobehere wrote:
"Ill be your friend for a billion years. ~ A friend of mine that I made in SO"

Made me cry.