Dave B.
Maximus Ultimus Mostimus
I can see it that way too. He did try to really help me though. So, I don't know. I DO know I didn't trust him.
Hubbard's outlook on life right from the get go
- Thread starter Mimsey Borogrove
- Start date
I can see it that way too. He did try to really help me though. So, I don't know. I DO know I didn't trust him.
lotus
stubborn rebel sheep!
I believe your are quite in the right direction !
I talk about that last nigh with someone and we botha agree on this.
We can find record mentionning he did ask for help (psychiatry) a sociopath would not
Apparently, he was sometimes gentle and nice (beginning in the cult)
I would say he appeared to be more in need of attention, loved and praised
than in need of harming people.
But I would believe that over the time - adding alcool, drugs,
it worsen gradually to a point he became more and more cruel and did appear as a sociopath (many part of the tech he wrote ressemble anything famous sociopath leader would have written).
I've never read anything Ron said nice about his parents. At the opposite I've read he dislike his parents.
I believe he was born with emotionnal & mental problems (I find, he ''appears'' unhappy and introverted in his child photographs)
Because he became a cult leader that we praised and raised to the rank of a messiah and almost god , only worsen his mental condition as a narcissist - also nobody around ever stop his dellusion or cruel behavior, but they help him to create a monster and he got reinforcement form other's praising him .
Almost the same than Hitler - if nobody would support him he would remain a nobody without any power.
He feeded us in our spiritual cupidity
we feeded him in his narcissist dellusion!
Only a opinion - we will never know for sure and completely what was in his mind and his heart! (his admissions were speaking a lot though)
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john reguerra
Patron with Honors
What exactly is the definition of psychopathic:
a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience. Can you please let me know a single specific action LRH as done per the definition. Thank you.
lotus
stubborn rebel sheep!
Hello,
1) the word psychopathic had not been mentionned in my post
(to me any psychotic attribute refers to a psychiatric diagnosis)
2) Concerning anti-social, sociopathic, or criminal behavior of LRH
(I would never believe I would have been ask here, to provide one specific action of LRH done per these definitions)
My answer John:
considering the amplitude of evidences, testimonies, court documents, HCOPL, HCOB, SO orders, lectures, admissions,...... shared on this forum with the thousands of hours of serious researches ,
my best answer IS
Probably not the answer you may want but the best I can provide you with!
:wink2:
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Gib
Crusader
well, per that link you provided "antisocial"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/antisocial
The fourth definition under adjective, applies.
"Psychiatry. of or pertaining to a pattern of behavior in which social norms and the rights of others are persistently violated."
That is actually a definition of anybody that disagrees with scientology, or in scientology terms, those who disagree are "critics" and per the "fair game" policy are to be destroyed and have no rights.
SweetnessandLight
Crusader
Because he was a Narcissistic Sociopath, that's why! Some clear indications of Histrionic Personality Disorder, as well!
IT'S WHAT THEY DO! The man was a mentally ill/emotionally disturbed SOCIOPATH.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
SweetnessandLight
Crusader
KIDNAPPED HIS DAUGHTER AND TOOK HER TO CUBA!!! To BLACKMAIL his wife into "quietly" divorcing him and NOT CLAIMING HER LEGAL FAIR SHARE OF DIANETICS!!!
DAMN, I could write a book about this!
You ignorant Hubbard apologists make me FURIOUS!!! People are STILL being harmed by his CRAP!
Also, see this:
Gib
Crusader
my answer your questions, just my opinion and viewpoint.
Why he was proud of his history?
I don't think it's a matter of his being proud. I think he just wanted to make hisself all glorious to sell his stick.
The question of a vast shore story?
Same as above, it was a marketing and sales gimmick with no actual truth behind it being a science of the mind. That would be called a hellvahoax, just as the radio broadcast of "war of the worlds". And just as all of the info commercials show on TV as "true" phenomenon, just a magicians trick. LOL
ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
Crusader
Yeah, the daughter he later claimed was illegitimate and disowned,
what a swell guy ... Mankind's greatest friend.
Gib
Crusader
KIDNAPPED HIS DAUGHTER AND TOOK HER TO CUBA!!! To BLACKMAIL his wife into "quietly" divorcing him and NOT CLAIMING HER LEGAL FAIR SHARE OF DIANETICS!!!
DAMN, I could write a book about this!
You ignorant Hubbard apologists make me FURIOUS!!! People are STILL being harmed by his CRAP!
Also, see this:
do tell
lotus
stubborn rebel sheep!
Ron a sociopath - antisocial - criminal ?????
Because of this -written by him - and claimed back by the CO$ to be kept away from public view and considered as true LRH hand written document by a justice court.
http://www.lermanet.com/reference/Admissions.pdf
You can also read his beautifull asian poems - Hymns of Asia and bow to him!
If it's not evidence - then change you pink pills for lecithin \ or get a CBT therapy!
The reason why this cult has been so abusive for such long time is the inability of people to recognized his deviant and dangerous behavior for being so!
This is circa 2014!
Because of this -written by him - and claimed back by the CO$ to be kept away from public view and considered as true LRH hand written document by a justice court.
http://www.lermanet.com/reference/Admissions.pdf
You can also read his beautifull asian poems - Hymns of Asia and bow to him!
If it's not evidence - then change you pink pills for lecithin \ or get a CBT therapy!
The reason why this cult has been so abusive for such long time is the inability of people to recognized his deviant and dangerous behavior for being so!
This is circa 2014!
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Veda
Sponsor
How long have you been reading ESMB? Yet, apparently, you have learned NOTHING. You must be a CLEAR SCIENTOLOGIST. Permit me to validate you.
In no particular order, here's a small sampling of a few items:
__________
From Alan Walter, graduate of the first Class 8 course on the ship, from a 2007 ESMB post:
"...Ron had Julia Salmon thrown overboard... Julia was [in her fifties], terribly overweight, and could not swim.
"The people who threw her overboard struggled to get her over the side; she was terrified; she kept crying out "I cannot swim!" On her way down she hit the side of the ship - I could hear her screams - it was obvious she was injured and drowning.
"The people on the deck all stood around too afraid to do anything. Fearing to originate any action less the become the target of LRHs displeasure.
"I ran and jumped over the side and rescued her. I then pulled her over to the ladder that led up to the ground level of the dock........it was about 20 feet straight up. She could not climb the steps. I had my shoulders under her butt pushing her up..... no one still had come to help.......but at the top of that ladder stood LRH filming us.....such evil.......
"Anyway after an immense struggle with Julia's help I was able to push her up to the top of the ladder....finally some help arrived.
"Over the years the unthinkable thought pushed forward more and more....it was 'that I observe that LRH was demonic at that time'. I did not want to know that, did not want to believe that.......that was too incredible to be believed - even for me - I did the usual make nothing of myself....'you're seeing things' 'what do you know' 'you've got overts' - much easier to blame self than confront what is..."
___________
'Forced abortions on the Apollo, 1968':
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?28339-Forced-abortions-amp-the-Apollo-1968
Note: Hubbard's, often quoted by PR people, comments on abortion, in 1950 Dianetics, were about attempted (unsuccessful) abortions. Hubbard, himself, was an old time do it yourself abortionist, and can be heard, in a 1952 lecture, enthusiastically - almost gleefully - talking about the ease with which abortions can be done by anyone.
__________
Nancy Many talks about Hubbard and Paulette Cooper, starting at 1:30. "[L. Ron] Hubbard hated Paulette Cooper. He hated her and he wanted her destroyed."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY76WHmRlYA&feature=player_embedded
_________
From the Affidavit of Tanja Burden http://www.lisamcpherson.org/burden.htm:
"At the Fort Harrison I remained LRH's personal messenger. I observed LRH control the operation of Scientology in various 'Orgs' worldwide from the Fort Harrison. I coded and decoded messages to and directly from Hubbard. Hubbard used approximately 15 codes at this time to conceal his operations, programs, and policies, which he disseminated worldwide. I personally delivered messages concerning Operation Snow White, Operation Freak Out, and other Scientology secret and illegal operations. I also filed these in Hubbard's personal filing cabinet..."
__________
Schwimmel Puckel, in a 2011 ESMB post, had these observations:
"I quite sure that Hubbard directed this personally... But I can't prove it. But it was/is well known that even as Mary Sue and Jane Kember held those posts they did, nothing was done without Ron overlooking, approving and/or ordering it.
"I never met the man in person. I was in the Guardian's Office Europe 1979 to mid '81. Well, we had telexes clattering in from 'Ron' all the time. He was very much into anything the GO did, was my impression. And we carefully cut the corner that said 'Ron' off of the slips before archiving. No document were to expose Ron as a leader or executive authority of anything anywhere."
_________
From Russell Miller's interview of David Mayo, Class XII, from August 1986.
This excerpt concerns events from the late 1960s:
"He [Hubbard] could be capable of incredible cruelty. On the ship there was an old man on the Royal Scotman who he made push a peanut round the decks with his nose. He had to get down on his hands and knees, he had to go round the deck, quite a long distance in a race with one or two others also in trouble. The first one back got let off and the last one got a double penalty.
"It was really tough on this old guy, Charlie Reisdorf. The surface of the deck was very rough wood, prone to splinter, so after pushing peanuts with their noses, they all had raw, bleeding noses, leaving a trail of blood behind them. I not only saw it but the entire crew of the ship was mustered - a mandatory attendance - we were required to watch this punishment, to make an example of it for the rest of us. Reisdorf was in his late 50s probably. His two daughters were messengers, they were 11 or 12 at time and his wife was there also.
"It was hard to say which was worse to watch: this old guy with a bleeding nose or his wife and kids sobbing and crying at being forced to watch this. Hubbard was standing there calling the shots, yelling, 'Faster, Faster!'. It was indignity, degradation and breaking a person's will, and making people watch. It was disgusting...
"They used to have people locked in the chain locker, including small children. It was very dangerous because if the anchor started to slip and started running out, it would probably turn a body into a pulp in no time at all...
"He [LRH] had a birthday party on March 13, 1968; there was a woman who he ordered locked in the chain locker. During the party he had brought her out. She was filthy, covered with dirt and rust, and had not been allowed to wash or change clothes - she had been in there for a week... he brought her out to the party. He said he was giving her a reprieve and permitting her to come to the party, as if that was a nice gesture. She wasn't allowed to change. She was brought to the party and had to stay, and later was returned [to the chain locker]... it was flaunting her degradation...
"Why did people stand by?...
"From time to time, Hubbard would cancel such activities like the chain locker, and blame it on someone else... He would start such pronouncements with, 'It has just come to my attention...'
"The length of time for children would vary, but no one was less than a day...
"Reisdorf [peanut pushing] affair - if someone tried to do something, it would have made it worse. Hubbard said that maritime law prevailed... He said that under maritime law, he had total power over everyone on the vessel..."
And one brief excerpt concerning events from the late 1970s:
"He told me he was obsessed with an insatiable lust for power and money. He said it very emphatically. He thought it wasn't possible to get enough. He didn't say it as if it was a fault, just his frustration that he couldn't get enough."
And from an article on 'Clear' by David Mayo from the early 1990s:
"It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were 'clear' at a certain point..."
Another reason people stood by was that Hubbard had, systematically, over many years, used a mixture of deception and manipulation to assert and maintain dominion over their thoughts and loyalties. Hubbard had convinced others that the survival of, not only themselves, but of the entire human race, depended upon Scientology succeeding, and that he, as the "Source" of Scientology, most of all, needed to succeed, and not be opposed or countered.
__________
The following is another excerpt from 'Messiah or Madman?' - published almost thirty years ago:
From a 1986 interview of Martin Samuels, former Mission Holder, and founder of the Delphian School, from the 'Reflections' chapter of the book, 'L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman?'
http://www.amazon.com/reader/0942637577?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=sib_dp_pt :
"Hubbard operated according to a couple of key patterns.
"The first pattern involved basically decent well intentioned people... no one was able to rise in the organization to a point of any real proximity to him, without being attacked and vilified...
"And of course the next person thinks he or she is immune...
"The next pattern: It's reap and rape. Hubbard would let the reins loose. He'd let people believe they really could get on with it... He'd let people believe they really could prosper to the full extent of their own ability, and enjoy the fruits of their labor.
"And, with that kind of freedom, prosperity does occur, Inevitably, though, he'd come along and rape and pillage and rip off and take what had been produced. The most dramatic example of this was '82, '83, when he 'raped' his most decent people in management along with the mission holders, and looted the entire mission network.
"And look at this pattern... He surrounded himself with absolute hooligans as 'managers'; guys who beat the shit out of people. This man, who 'is this OT, the author of Science of Survival, completely able to predict human behavior', surrounded himself with ruthless people - like Miscavige - who got there because they emulated Hubbard's savagery. They emulated his total willingness to completely break, use, and discard another person.
"And then after their hands were so bloody - and the only reason their hands were bloody was that they were doing what Hubbard wanted - when it finally started to get to the point where it couldn't be tolerated by people anymore, Hubbard wiped them out. Then he said. 'My God! I didn't know!' Scapegoat. He even did that to his own wife, who went to jail in his place...
"But the thing that's amazing, and to me terrifying, is the characteristic of the mind, my mind, your mind, and apparently many other people's minds, where I could buy this horseshit, where I could participate in it."
___________
And, on 7 March 1965, 'KSW' was published 'Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists, the Fair Game Law':
"A Suppressive person or group becomes 'fair game'.
"By Fair Game is meant, without rights for self, possessions or position, and no Scientologist may be brought before a Committee of Evidence or punished for any action taken against a Suppressive Person or group...
"Suppressive acts are defined as actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce, or impede Scientology or Scientologists.
"Such suppressive acts include public disavowal of Scientology... public statements against Scientology.
"[Suppressive acts also include] 1st degree murder, arson, disintegration of persons or belongings not [emphasis added] guilty of suppressive acts.
"[Suppressive Persons] place themselves beyond any consideration for their feelings
or well being..."The homes, property, places, and abodes of persons who have been active in attempting to suppress Scientology... are all beyond any protection."
_________
"I can make Napoleon look like a punk." L. Ron Hubbard, from the 'Excalibur' letter of August 1938
_______________
And from the 12 February 1967 Policy Letter 'Admin Know-How, the Responsibility of Leaders' -a.k.a. The Bolivar Policy Letter - on the topic of how a subordinate should relate to his "power":
"[The power asks] 'What are those dead bodies doing at the door'. And if you [the subordinate] are clever, you never let it be known HE [the power] killed them - that weakens you and also hurts the power source. 'Well, boss about all those dead bodies, nobody at all will suppose you did it. She over there, those pink legs sticking out, didn't like me'. 'Well', he'll say if he really is a power, 'Why are you bothering me with it if it's done and you did it. Where's my blue ink?...
"...always push power in the direction of anyone on whose power you depend. It may be more money for the power, or more ease, or a snarling defense of the power to the critic, or even the dull thud of one of his enemies in the dark, or the glorious blaze of a whole enemy camp as a birthday surprise...
"...Real powers are developed by tight conspiracies of this kind... and if they are right and also manage their man [the power] and keep him from collapsing from overwork, bad temper or bad data, a kind of juggernaut builds up."
______________
"I am not interested in wog morality. If anyone is getting industrious trying to enturbulate or stop Scientologists or Scientology or its activities, I can make Captain Bligh look like a Sunday School teacher." From the 1969, 'Discipline, SPs, and Admin'
Well, John, have you learned anything?
No?
Oh well.
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