If I am banned from church, should I feel ashamed?

[Julian100]

I doubt I am even allowed back in church. When the new guys called me up recently I could here them chattering in the background when they knew they were talking to me. I would always get an, I need to look into your account and call you back.
I have a feeling that some guy I know from a forum threatened them about me as far as the refund. And I read one time that if 3rd party gets involved, they will not give you a refund. Therefore, I think maybe I am already an SP over there. I really don't know. But let's say I am not and I can still get the 800 back. Should i feel ashamed to do it? What if I am not an SP in my heart? Do you think they are wrong about the whole SP thing and how so many people are SP's?

 

[thetanic]

They are without a doubt wrong about the whole SP thing.

Marty Rathbun estimated there were 8500 Sea Org members in 2004. Later estimates put the number between 5000 and 7000. There are 25000 ex-Sea Org members, many of them declared suppressive, far more than the "pulled out of a hat" 2-1/2% figure.

If there is one valuable final product of the Cof$, it's creating declared (or silently declared) suppressive people.

Trust me, you'd be in fine company.

 

[SuperPowers]

Be informed and break free!

I doubt I am even allowed back in church. When the new guys called me up recently I could here them chattering in the background when they knew they were talking to me. I would always get an, I need to look into your account and call you back.
I have a feeling that some guy I know from a forum threatened them about me as far as the refund. And I read one time that if 3rd party gets involved, they will not give you a refund. Therefore, I think maybe I am already an SP over there. I really don't know. But let's say I am not and I can still get the 800 back. Should i feel ashamed to do it? What if I am not an SP in my heart? Do you think they are wrong about the whole SP thing and how so many people are SP's?

Dear Juan,

You should fight those fears with information.

I believe, if you spend for instance some time at Gerry Armstrong's site http://www.suppressiveperson.org/spdl/ you'll get useful information on the SP doctrine which is the key feature of Scn. Without it the CoS would have much less control power over its followers. You have to break free from the guilt and blame you experience when you're in an Scn environment.

Yours, SuperPowers

 

[Osiris]

No you are not an SP,

The truth is the longer you stay there, the more money they will get out of you,

Get out of there as Quick as you can

 

[xenusdad]

Hello?

Knock, knock, hello?

There is no such thing as a suppressive person (SP) it's just a bunch of made-up hubshit to explain away why his teck doesn't work and also to create enemies for his cult to be against, I mean come on, policemen, newspapermen, ok, but UNDERTAKERS?

SPs do not exist, and thereby neither does PTSness! Think about it.

 

[NeXTep]

I doubt I am even allowed back in church. When the new guys called me up recently I could here them chattering in the background when they knew they were talking to me. I would always get an, I need to look into your account and call you back.
I have a feeling that some guy I know from a forum threatened them about me as far as the refund. And I read one time that if 3rd party gets involved, they will not give you a refund. Therefore, I think maybe I am already an SP over there. I really don't know. But let's say I am not and I can still get the 800 back. Should i feel ashamed to do it? What if I am not an SP in my heart? Do you think they are wrong about the whole SP thing and how so many people are SP's?

Yes, according to their standards you are an SP.

You can accept those standards or set your own.

Enjoy your freedom of choice.

 

[Miss Penguin]

They are without a doubt wrong about the whole SP thing.

Marty Rathbun estimated there were 8500 Sea Org members in 2004. Later estimates put the number between 5000 and 7000. There are 25000 ex-Sea Org members, many of them declared suppressive, far more than the "pulled out of a hat" 2-1/2% figure.

If there is one valuable final product of the Cof$, it's creating declared (or silently declared) suppressive people.

Trust me, you'd be in fine company.

I always thought there were more ex-SO than there are SO. Do you know by chance where the 25,000 ex SO figure came from? This is good data to know for someone I'm helping to see the light.

For the OP, you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Dulloldfart]

I always thought there were more ex-SO than there are SO. Do you know by chance where the 25,000 ex SO figure came from?

I remember deriving a figure maybe a year ago. I forget what total I came up with, so let's do it again.

Assumptions: average time in the SO = 2 years; average number of SO members = 5,000; years from 1969 to 2009 = 40. Just to keep it all round numbers since we don't have exact figures to work with anyway. I got the two year figure from some SO source, but I forget where. The other two figures are fairly clear.

Total SO person-years to date = 40 x 5000 = 200,000. At two years a pop, that means 100,000 different people. If there are 5,000 now, that means 95,000 ex-SO peeps.

For there to be only 25,000 ex-SO peeps, that would mean the average time in the SO would have to be about 7 years. Seems unlikely to me.

Paul

 

[Gadfly]

You can most definitely get a "refund" even if you are declared an SP. I did, and for quite a bit of money. It must be UNUSED funds still in account.

 

[Dulloldfart]

You can most definitely get a "refund" even if you are declared an SP. I did, and for quite a bit of money. It must be UNUSED funds still in account.

REFUND and REPAYMENT mean different things in Scn. Don't use the wrong word. REFUND is money back after taking the service. REPAYMENT is money back when you haven't taken the service. Don't use the wrong word with them, Julian100. It's important.

Paul

 

[GreyWolf]

I am proud to be a supressive in the eyes of scn and you should be too.

 

[Pooks]

Don't worry about stuff like this. The longer you are away from the cult, the more you will understand about it.

Read more. Learn what many people have already been through and learned about their experiences in Scn. I can't stress enough that you just need to read what other Ex's have to say. They can be very helpful to you.


Patty

 

[Julian100]

You can most definitely get a "refund" even if you are declared an SP. I did, and for quite a bit of money. It must be UNUSED funds still in account.

But I don't know why Ryan told me that I have been payed out according to his records. It's just not true. I never signed for the notary I would remember if I was payed off. So you think i can get it back?

 

[thetanic]

Gadfly: unused funds = repayment, not refund.

And yes, Julian, you can get it back.

 

[Julian100]

But this whole time everyone made it seem so hard. So I don't need claim courts? I do have to admit it's hard to do though. Taking that last step makes you feel really guilty and they feel your letting them down. But now I have you guys so I must do it asap.

 

[Gadfly]

Gadfly: unused funds = repayment, not refund.

And yes, Julian, you can get it back.

Thank-you!!!!!!

I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT!

Sorry, I am just not up onto certain areas of all of that. And, to think I even must have read and filled out all the dumb forms at one point. I will whip myself 20 times, in Lotus position 12, for making an error in the use of key Scientology nomenclature. I "will adopt firm policy", with my solution being to simply not ever again use the terms "refund" and "repayment" in any way, but instead to only use "getting money back".

I understand though, legal things must be done correctly and exactly. I am sure if he asks for the forms and references, they will give them to him. Though, for me, I made sure to fully read up on ALL the relevant policies before I began the procedure to get my money back (unused APs). I didn't use an attorney, and simply TR3'ed the process, rather gently without any HE & R. There may have been a few minor detours, but the cycle was fairly straight-forward and uneventful (for me). That was five years ago, so who knows? Maybe policy has been written since then to add extra detours to make it more difficult to get money back.

 

[Gadfly]

But this whole time everyone made it seem so hard. So I don't need claim courts? I do have to admit it's hard to do though. Taking that last step makes you feel really guilty and they feel your letting them down. But now I have you guys so I must do it asap.

Julian, it would help you & benefit you to separate the "mind fuck" from the money! They probably even believe it when they say they feel you are letting them down. From their viewpoint, you are! But, it DOESN'T MATTER! Let go of THEIR guilt. You don't need to keep holding onto it as your own.

As long as you buy into THEIR reality, and agree with them on their terms, then you will be liable to go the effect of it and them. Just let the whole agreement system that you still have left with anything having to do with Scientology GO! BANG! Bye-Bye! You'll feel much better and it will go so much easier.

 

[thetanic]

They deliberately make it difficult, it's their game. Their game is all about getting you to part with your money and for them to keep it.

Of course, many people have gotten gains from Scientology services, but the control, especially of money and relationships, does more harm.

 

[Mest Lover]

You should consider yourself lucky if they ban you! take the win, write it up, and ask for them to file it!
Anything you do to stop them from taking your money would be considered a Supressive Person act, since it would not benefit Scientology one bit if you don't fork over your cash. One of the things they do to make you feel like utter crap and submit to their will is chatter between each other about how "out ethics," "off policy," "open minded," et al.. They do it to a degree that you think you are listening into a "private behind your back" conversation, but they actually do it on purpose to bend you in the direction they want you in. Cut, Run, and run fast before their stupid psych games part your common sense.

 

[freethinker]

There is apolicy that they are using now. It's HCOPL ARC-BREAK PROGRAM,ADDITIONAL DATA. That's the one that has the whole routing form spiel. It reads just like one of DM's events. When you read it, just put his voice to it. You'll see what I mean.

In the issue it says it was a successful program in the sixties at ST Hill. But the policy was issued for the first time in 1984. That's quite along comm lag for LRH.

Thank-you!!!!!!

I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT IT!

Sorry, I am just not up onto certain areas of all of that. And, to think I even must have read and filled out all the dumb forms at one point. I will whip myself 20 times, in Lotus position 12, for making an error in the use of key Scientology nomenclature. I "will adopt firm policy", with my solution being to simply not ever again use the terms "refund" and "repayment" in any way, but instead to only use "getting money back".

I understand though, legal things must be done correctly and exactly. I am sure if he asks for the forms and references, they will give them to him. Though, for me, I made sure to fully read up on ALL the relevant policies before I began the procedure to get my money back (unused APs). I didn't use an attorney, and simply TR3'ed the process, rather gently without any HE & R. There may have been a few minor detours, but the cycle was fairly straight-forward and uneventful (for me). That was five years ago, so who knows? Maybe policy has been written since then to add extra detours to make it more difficult to get money back.