Marty Rathbun: thoughts on Scientology and spirituality

[Free Being Me]

Re: Marty: Scientology is not a religion, but instead a "spirtual-oriented psychother

Spiritual oriented psycotherapy fits in the category religion IMO. >snip<

I'm sure Lisa McPherson (and her family), Paulette Cooper, Nan McLean, Nancy Many, to just name few would be overjoyed to know the wonderful benefits of this spiritual oriented psychotherapy (scientology).

 

[TG1]

I don't think there's any reason to measure Marty's departure from Scientology in centimeters anymore.

My personal opinion: Marty hasn't been much of a Scientologist for some time. He barely defends Hubbard, and only seems to do so when he does in deference to a few diehard Scios at his blog. I think he's just keeping the blog open as a soft landing for those who've hung out there for a while.

I have no doubt that others' mileage on this subject will vary considerably.

Nothing stays the same. Thank goodness.

TG1

 

[Gib]

I don't think there's any reason to measure Marty's departure from Scientology in centimeters anymore.

My personal opinion: Marty hasn't been much of a Scientologist for some time. He barely defends Hubbard, and only seems to do so when he does in deference to a few diehard Scios at his blog. I think he's just keeping the blog open as a soft landing for those who've hung out there for a while.

I have no doubt that others' mileage on this subject will vary considerably.

Nothing stays the same. Thank goodness.

TG1

I would agree,

and I think marty is doing a geir isene path.

 

[Free Being Me]

I would agree,

and I think marty is doing a geir isene path.

when he posts "fuck it" on ESMB, I'll believe it.

 

[Gib]

when he posts "fuck it" on ESMB, I'll believe it.

I don't disagree.

 

[Terril park]

I don't think there's any reason to measure Marty's departure from Scientology in centimeters anymore.

My personal opinion: Marty hasn't been much of a Scientologist for some time. He barely defends Hubbard, and only seems to do so when he does in deference to a few diehard Scios at his blog. I think he's just keeping the blog open as a soft landing for those who've hung out there for a while.

I have no doubt that others' mileage on this subject will vary considerably.

Nothing stays the same. Thank goodness.

TG1

Marty,like many here, has been examining scn. He's commented on things he disagrees with.

There is no evidence that his auditing is anything but "standard" and gets good results.

 

[CommunicatorIC]

Re: Marty: Scientology is not a religion, but instead a "spirtual-oriented psychother

Marty: Scientology is not a religion, but instead a "spirtual-oriented psychotherapy"
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/the-story-of-scientology-prophesied/#comment-263463

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/the-story-of-scientology-prophesied/#comment-263521

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/the-story-of-scientology-prophesied/#comment-263554

EnthralledObserver | April 21, 2013 at 2:26 am | Reply

LOL… My, my… well that was the fastest backtrack I’ve ever seen anyone ever make.

Tricky question this one, isn’t it? If you admit it’s a SCIENCE, then you open Scientology to probing questions about the validity of the actual science used and scrutiny of the (absent) evidence and research that claims it WORKS. And then you lose all the benefits religions are instantly afforded(wrongly, I think, but my opinion alone cannot sway the law) by the very nature of claiming they ARE a religion.

But if you just go with the RELIGION story, then you lose all credibility in the Scientific field because it’s all ‘belief’ and no ‘evidence’, and therefore cannot genuinely claim the success in the way Scientology has been all these years claiming ‘testing, research and clinical trials’ as if it is a science, and this makes it harder to rope people in.

I personally think it’s a self-help type of therapy born from the successes and euphoric feelings brought on by hypnotism which lacks thorough research and investigation and adequate regulation. It should be afforded no special tax benefits because it’s ‘sold’ to an individual for individual benefits than are intended to be, in some cases, physical benefits, not purely spiritual and can offer no real ‘community encompassing’ charitable benefits.

It’s a business. So those peddling it should pay taxes and operate under any rules and laws required for other businesses. i.e. they should be made accountable for what they claim are the benefits, and if they aren’t delivered to customer satisfaction – REFUND!

That’s a pointy and transparent fence Scientolgists are trying to perch themselves on, innit? LOL.

martyrathbun09 | April 21, 2013 at 7:38 am | Reply

Call it what you want. Your obsession with labels will like keep you forever obsessed with Scientology. The reason being, again, the Skelly Wright opinion from the D.C. Court of Appeals probably best and most accurately sums it up.

 

[TG1]

CIC,

A question -- why are you so interested in Marty and reprinting his stuff over here?

I'd like to hear from you sometime -- what do you think? Do you have a position on anything?

Really.

TG1

 

[ChurchOfCylontology]

Re: Marty: Scientology is not a religion, but instead a "spirtual-oriented psychother

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/the-story-of-scientology-prophesied/#comment-263554

EnthralledObserver | April 21, 2013 at 2:26 am | Reply

LOL… My, my… well that was the fastest backtrack I’ve ever seen anyone ever make.

Tricky question this one, isn’t it? If you admit it’s a SCIENCE, then you open Scientology to probing questions about the validity of the actual science used and scrutiny of the (absent) evidence and research that claims it WORKS. And then you lose all the benefits religions are instantly afforded(wrongly, I think, but my opinion alone cannot sway the law) by the very nature of claiming they ARE a religion.

But if you just go with the RELIGION story, then you lose all credibility in the Scientific field because it’s all ‘belief’ and no ‘evidence’, and therefore cannot genuinely claim the success in the way Scientology has been all these years claiming ‘testing, research and clinical trials’ as if it is a science, and this makes it harder to rope people in.

I personally think it’s a self-help type of therapy born from the successes and euphoric feelings brought on by hypnotism which lacks thorough research and investigation and adequate regulation. It should be afforded no special tax benefits because it’s ‘sold’ to an individual for individual benefits than are intended to be, in some cases, physical benefits, not purely spiritual and can offer no real ‘community encompassing’ charitable benefits.

It’s a business. So those peddling it should pay taxes and operate under any rules and laws required for other businesses. i.e. they should be made accountable for what they claim are the benefits, and if they aren’t delivered to customer satisfaction – REFUND!

That’s a pointy and transparent fence Scientolgists are trying to perch themselves on, innit? LOL.


martyrathbun09 | April 21, 2013 at 7:38 am | Reply

Call it what you want. Your obsession with labels will like keep you forever obsessed with Scientology. The reason being, again, the Skelly Wright opinion from the D.C. Court of Appeals probably best and most accurately sums it up.

Um.....ground control to Marty.....You were the one to label it as a "spiritual-oriented psychotherapy" in the first place, thereby creating a label for it, no? You are labeling, which is the very thing you then arrogantly, smugly, and assertively criticize someone else for doing shortly thereafter. If you're going to be a hypocrite, maybe try to be nice about it when caught. Your curt and nasty responses to those that challenge you in calm and logical arguments only serve to prove that you're an asshole. You've done it since day 1 of your blog and it's easy to see why you relished in abusing others during your tenure. Maybe try to "move on up a little higher" next time and actually address the valid points brought to your attention instead of being an asshole. I suppose that's too much to ask because leopards rarely change their spots.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I would agree,

and I think marty is doing a geir isene path.

There's a huge difference, Geir can kick Scientology to the curb and he still has a life that is not lacking anything. If Marty kicks Scientology to the curb he has nothing. That's why he's been trying every way possible to repackage Hubbard's pile of shit into something marketable. He still has a long way to go until he realizes there are far better ways of making a living than jerking people off in Hubbard's obsolete role playing game.

 

[TG1]

Chuck,

I have nothing invested in saying this -- but when I check over there, what I think I see Marty doing is pretending to be interested in Scientology.

The vibe I get is that he's bored as shit with the subject.

I actually don't think he's repackaging it anymore. Although he hasn't yet said he's done with Scientology, I expect that's coming soon.

YMMV.

TG1

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Chuck,

I have nothing invested in saying this -- but when I check over there, what I think I see Marty doing is pretending to be interested in Scientology.

The vibe I get is that he's bored as shit with the subject.

I actually don't think he's repackaging it anymore. Although he hasn't yet said he's done with Scientology, I expect that's coming soon.

YMMV.

TG1

That would mean that Marty would have to get a day job and somehow I just don't see that happening anytime soon. I see another Scientology spin-off coming soon like all the others before it, basically Scientology with a different vocabulary and all references to Hubbard removed.

 

[TG1]

That would mean that Marty would have to get a day job and somehow I just don't see that happening anytime soon. I see another Scientology spin-off coming soon like all the others before it, basically Scientology with a different vocabulary and all references to Hubbard removed.

Interesting. You could be right.

I expect we'll see pretty soon.

Thanks,

TG1

 

[degraded being]

Chuck,

I have nothing invested in saying this -- but when I check over there, what I think I see Marty doing is pretending to be interested in Scientology.

The vibe I get is that he's bored as shit with the subject.

I actually don't think he's repackaging it anymore. Although he hasn't yet said he's done with Scientology, I expect that's coming soon.

YMMV.

TG1

I'm with you on that, and as you said before he lost interest a long time ago.
When he started up, (way way when he put his first post on ESMB), he knew what direction he was headed in. He had goals which included giving DM a hard time, staying out of jail, making enough money to live on, and secondary goals of generating interest in himself to attract customers and attracting others who would support him. Hubbard and scientology execs were his mentors. He went for "successful actions" and using "buttons". That meant KSW, LRH as cult leader personality, etc. DM was a very good "button" and helped him create a supportive group, emotionally and materially. It's not that he did not believe in scientology at all IMO, - it's just that he knew how to use cult belief to get others doing what he hoped they would do. I also think he was well aware that things might not go the way he wanted; he was opportunistic. The Wright book seems important in Marty's biggest shift. Veda used to point out how Marty was "handling" the media, and IMO he was to a certain extent, the media are notorius for schmoozing people to get info, and once they have it.....?? There was another guy (New York Times?) who Wright new very well and so did Ortega, I think, who seemed very UNnterested in cutting any slack for Marty. I think Marty saw then that whatever cosy relationship he had with authors and media, they did NOT need him as their pet expert and go-to guy. It was at that time that Marty suddenly could not be bothered anymore with maintaining coherence in a one-theme plot to his life's journey Ever more rapidly he started to spin through his new-age, hippie, eastern, bit-of-this-bit-of-that, thing that he is doing.

PS. I think Jenna's book also contributed to Marty finding out he was not the "Media IC"

 

[PirateAndBum]

Re: Marty uses early LRH to reject KSW ("The Story of Scientology Prophesied?")

Interesting technique, and one I've seen Marty use before. Marty uses early, relatively liberal LRH to reject KSW - though some on his blog might not at first recognize that is what Marty is doing.

Marty uses early LRH to reject KSW ("The Story of Scientology Prophesied?")
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/the-story-of-scientology-prophesied/
Compare that to the admonition in KSW No. 4 - SAFEGUARDING TECHNOLOGY:

It's interesting that he doesn't call Hubbard on his BS in the 1952 quote he used - that biology has dead-ended. LOL, what a douche-bag Hubbard was. Let's see biology today has not advanced since pre-Hubbard days, nope, mapping the human genome is no advancement. Given the track this dead-ended science of biology is on at some point in the not so distant future we will be engineering lifeforms from scratch. But thank god we have the closely mapped path out, said path ending in a very nice dead-end. Excuse me while I snicker.

 

[PirateAndBum]

Re: Marty: Scientology is not a religion, but instead a "spirtual-oriented psychother

Spiritual oriented psycotherapy fits in the category religion IMO.

CO$ is a business. Thus should not be tax excempt. IMO.

Terril, could you please explain how you have come to this conclusion?

I'll give you one way of reasoning on the matter, I'd like to see how you came to your conclusion.

1. Spiritual oriented psycotherapy fits in the category religion.

2. The Co$ sells and practices this Spiritual oriented psycotherapy.

3. Thus the Co$ fits in the category of religion.

4. Religious organizations are granted tax exemption (at least in the USA)

5. Thus it should be tax exempt.

The Catholic Church is a business. It's in the business of saving people's souls. You don't think they take in any cash for the "service"?

 

[PirateAndBum]

The last post I made leads me to an interesting thought.

Since donations now have about next to nothing to do with buying services, DM should just make training & processing free. Then it would fit the model of other religions that survive on the donations of their parishioners.

DM has proved that Scilons will support an org for NO exchange whatsoever. So why not make the services free. Much to the chagrin of all the Scn haters this would totally boom their delivery stats out the roof. LOL
He just need to cancel HCOPL "Free Service Free Fall"

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

The last post I made leads me to an interesting thought.

Since donations now have about next to nothing to do with buying services, DM should just make training & processing free. Then it would fit the model of other religions that survive on the donations of their parishioners.

DM has proved that Scilons will support an org for NO exchange whatsoever. So why not make the services free. Much to the chagrin of all the Scn haters this would totally boom their delivery stats out the roof. LOL
He just need to cancel HCOPL "Free Service Free Fall"

There is no market for Scientology, giving it away will not generate more interest, and will only lead to proving just how little interest there is in it.

The ridiculous cost creates the illusion of it being financially out of reach as opposed to just unwanted.

The only allure the cult has left is it's high prices, be it as small as it is, a certain percentage of the population will think there has to something to it if they charge so much for it, those are the only suckers left the cult can target. Someone who is rich, stupid, and looking to take a bite of that ever shrinking mystery sandwich. And we all know there aren't too many of them left, that's why he leveraged himself into the Ideal Org Slumlord Business which brings in rental income on buildings the renters already paid for.

 

[SpecialFrog]

Re: Marty: Scientology is not a religion, but instead a "spirtual-oriented psychother

Spiritual oriented psycotherapy fits in the category religion IMO.

The loosest definition of "religion" I am aware is basically, "a system of beliefs that provide guidance on how to live in the world and an understanding of one's place in it."

Even under this definition, which arguably covers Marxism and Objectivism, I'm not sure "spiritual psychotherapy" fits.

That's like saying vitalistic chiropractic medicine is a religion.

Scientology, on the other hand, does meet that definition, though only if you drop the pretensions towards being a science, which is I think why Marty is hedging.

 

[Sidney18511]

It seems that he is throwing whatever he can come up with at the wall and seeing what might stick.
This is a business for him, it is how he makes the big bucks. Really now, what else could the man do?
He COULD write a rip-roaring tell all. But for some reason he doesn't want to do that. Why do you think that is?