namaste? Borg?

[Vinaire]

This may be a case of stating the obvious but...
One of the more basic problems with identities is that they're usually a complete package of things that include a lot of physical and thought-forms. Very few Beings are liable to even think "self" and find anything other than an identity package.
It's the ultimate paradox, the only thing in all existence that a Being cannot inspect is SELF.
"Finding yourself" is the biggest joke in the Universe.
A Being tends to associate the identity with many impermanent things and so comes to believe that the identity can perish along with those impermanent things. With the forms gone or changed the Being seems to consider that the ability to fully recall an identity has somehow been compromised.
The truth is, of course, that he only considered himself to be the identity/form and none of it is the actual Being.
As someone once said, "He's mocking it up!"
I hope this helps.
Panda.

The Vedic process for discovering SELF is:

"Neti, neti"

.

 

[Vinaire]

The identity issue is fascinating. It surely is the thing about the current vs past lifetimes. It's not so much a matter of now he or she has got a different body - it's that they have a new identity and that can be very different from previous ones.

What bugs me about death is the loss of current identity. I'd rather have it be a matter of choice.

It will become a matter of choice when one doesn't care much about having an identity or not having it.

It is attachment that takes away the ability to choose.

Can you choose not to have orgasm at the moment of orgasm?

It is the being that cuts down one's own power of choice.

.

 

[alex]

This may be a case of stating the obvious but...
One of the more basic problems with identities is that they're usually a complete package of things that include a lot of physical and thought-forms. Very few Beings are liable to even think "self" and find anything other than an identity package.
It's the ultimate paradox, the only thing in all existence that a Being cannot inspect is SELF.
"Finding yourself" is the biggest joke in the Universe.
A Being tends to associate the identity with many impermanent things and so comes to believe that the identity can perish along with those impermanent things. With the forms gone or changed the Being seems to consider that the ability to fully recall an identity has somehow been compromised.
The truth is, of course, that he only considered himself to be the identity/form and none of it is the actual Being.
As someone once said, "He's mocking it up!"
I hope this helps.
Panda.

But one can inspect self indirectly.

By deduction, one can observe that which is not self.

And indirectly by observing selfs creations.

As Vinnys link shows: "not this, not this"

Thus an awareness of self can come to be.

As to the Pilot claiming to be mocking it up....

That caeks a lie....but he knew it when he said it.

"So when The Pilot appears in the skies during the mass Implant, his immediate and instinctive reaction is to broadcast telepathically "I'M MOCKING IT UP" and the reactions of all the living things and captured people on Earth is to agree with that intention. And the Implant stops dead in its tracks."

http://freezoneearth.org/Prometheus04old/otThree/preot3/pilot_inc2.htm

 

[Veda]

Ken Ogger described himself as a "positive fanatic for LRH tech."

He ended up believing that he had been "Sex-Drug-hypnotized," and also, then, sexually (thetan) "blanketed" (the "blanketing" was supposed to have been done by [the] Stacy Moxon [thetan]). Finally, he committed suicide.

No doubt, Scientology Inc. would like some others to follow in his footsteps.

The "Pilot" in Hubbard's OT 3 story announces you're mocking it up to a being who is (per Hubbard) actually being implanted, thus is NOT mocking it up. It's a little extra twist to solidify the Commodore's mind fuck - certainly did a job on poor Ken Ogger, who never figured out that Hubbard was a chronic liar - a chronic liar who used truths to fascinate and distract.

 

[alex]

Ken Ogger described himself as a "positive fanatic for LRH tech."

He ended up believing that he had been "Sex-Drug-hypnotized," and also, then, sexually (thetan) "blanketed" (the "blanketing" was supposed to have been done by [the] Stacy Moxon [thetan]). Finally, he committed suicide.

No doubt, Scientology Inc. would like some others to follow in his footsteps.

The "Pilot" in Hubbard's OT 3 story announces you're mocking it up to a being who is (per Hubbard) actually being implanted, thus is NOT mocking it up. It's a little extra twist to solidify the Commodore's mind fuck - certainly did a job on poor Ken Ogger, who never figured out that Hubbard was a chronic liar - a chronic liar who used truths to fascinate and distract.

I dont think you read the link Brian. Or is your alter-is of this key bit of R6 intentional?

The pilot (in the incident) says (himself) "I am mocking it up". Which is taken in by the other beings in the incident as a command phrase, a la Dianetics theory....He/IT does not say to others "you're mocking it up".

But yes I really do understand you think it is a bunch of horse shit.

I am truly curious what you do believe, what you find valuable. You seem to only talk about what you dont agree with.

alex

 

[Vinaire]

...

I am truly curious what you do believe, what you find valuable. You seem to only talk about what you dont agree with.

alex

Veda's operating basis seems to be akin to "neti, neti." I can certainly appreciate that.

.

 

[Smitty]

comment to Veda

Ken Ogger described himself as a "positive fanatic for LRH tech."
He ended up believing that he had been "Sex-Drug-hypnotized," and also, then, sexually (thetan) "blanketed" (the "blanketing" was supposed to have been done by [the] Stacy Moxon [thetan]). Finally, he committed suicide.
No doubt, Scientology Inc. would like some others to follow in his footsteps.
The "Pilot" in Hubbard's OT 3 story announces you're mocking it up to a being who is (per Hubbard) actually being implanted, thus is NOT mocking it up. It's a little extra twist to solidify the Commodore's mind fuck - certainly did a job on poor Ken Ogger, who never figured out that Hubbard was a chronic liar - a chronic liar who used truths to fascinate and distract.

From what I have read that was written by Ogger on the internet, he seems to have been very messed up with the implant and body thetan aspects of scientology.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

I dont think you read the link Brian. Or is your alter-is of this key bit of R6 intentional?

The pilot (in the incident) says (himself) "I am mocking it up". Which is taken in by the other beings in the incident as a command phrase, a la Dianetics theory....He/IT does not say to others "you're mocking it up".

But yes I really do understand you think it is a bunch of horse shit.

I am truly curious what you do believe, what you find valuable. You seem to only talk about what you dont agree with.

alex

's probably a bit "unflat" on Inc. II.


Mark A. Baker

 

[alex]

From what I have read that was written by Ogger on the internet, he seems to have been very messed up with the implant and body thetan aspects of scientology.

Well since he claimed to BE the R6 GOD (The Pilot)....I would say he was pretty involved in those aspects!

 

[gomorrhan]

That was actually a joke, and he said so, in his archived posts. He didn't claim to be the Pilot, it was a pen name, while he was being "fabian".

Oggers best work, IMO, was in explaining things that the Church had made mysterious. For instance, his explanation of what a "line plot" is, what an "implant platen" is, what every mechanism of scientology's understanding of the mind *is*, he describes more fully, more articulately than Hubbard.

His "Self-Clearing" book remains extremely good reading for anyone interested in understanding the subject better than most Churchies.

 

[Panda Termint]

^^^I agree, Kevin^^^

 

[Voltaire's Child]

It will become a matter of choice when one doesn't care much about having an identity or not having it.

It is attachment that takes away the ability to choose.

Can you choose not to have orgasm at the moment of orgasm?

It is the being that cuts down one's own power of choice.

.

Sounds about right to me.

 

[alex]

That was actually a joke, and he said so, in his archived posts. He didn't claim to be the Pilot, it was a pen name, while he was being "fabian".

Oggers best work, IMO, was in explaining things that the Church had made mysterious. For instance, his explanation of what a "line plot" is, what an "implant platen" is, what every mechanism of scientology's understanding of the mind *is*, he describes more fully, more articulately than Hubbard.

His "Self-Clearing" book remains extremely good reading for anyone interested in understanding the subject better than most Churchies.

Referring to the R6 God, The Pilot....

"I don't claim to be more than a fragment of that shattered individual. I think you'll find many of us. And shattered pieces of other gods as well. I think everyone has done the god trip at sometime or other, and we're all still here, and more human than ever."

Sounds like he does in fact claim that lineage....

From Super Scio, Page 305. By Ken Ogger (The Pilot)

I think if you dismiss it as a joke you miss out on a whole lot of his viewpoint, and miss a great deal of understanding about what he was trying to show us.

But then I think I understand where your "line" is between reality and speculation.

Mine is blurred for sure!


alex

 

[gomorrhan]

A fragment of a god is different from claiming to be that god. Many people claim we are all fragments of Jehovah (another way of saying "made in his image"). Ken believed in the "composite case". While he believed he was a fragment of that being, I think it's safe to say that he didn't think that's all he was. He thought he was a composite of a variety of different beings, as well as "himself". Standard NOTS view.

 

[alex]

A fragment of a god is different from claiming to be that god. Many people claim we are all fragments of Jehovah (another way of saying "made in his image"). Ken believed in the "composite case". While he believed he was a fragment of that being, I think it's safe to say that he didn't think that's all he was. He thought he was a composite of a variety of different beings, as well as "himself". Standard NOTS view.

He offers a first hand account of incident two from a viewpoint "he" feels himself to have once occupied.

Parse it as you will.

 

[gomorrhan]

He adopted a "cause" viewpoint within Hubbard's manufactured delusion. Too bad he didn't just throw the whole thing out.

 

[alex]

He adopted a "cause" viewpoint within Hubbard's manufactured delusion. Too bad he didn't just throw the whole thing out.

baby, bath water!

 

[Smitty]

comment to alex

baby, bath water!

Sewage, sewer water!

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Sewage, sewer water!

Here in the west we use filtration and water recycling.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Vinaire]

Recycled baby, bath water then...

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