Plato on Scientology

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Another reason to love Plato.

“And whenever any one informs us that he has found a man who knows all the arts, and all things else that anybody knows, and every

single thing with a higher degree of accuracy than any other man –whoever tells us this, I think that we can only imagine him to be

a simple creature who is likely to have been deceived by some wizard or actor whom he met, and whom he thought all-knowing, because

he himself was unable to analyze the nature of knowledge and ignorance and imitation.”

― Plato, The Republic

I have no doubts that had I been educated before Scientology with at least a basic understanding of philosophical ideas I would have laughed off Hubbard as a joke.

But unfortunately, I wasn't educated.

I was "a simple creature who is likely to have been deceived by some wizard or actor whom he met, and whom he thought all-

knowing, because he himself was unable to analyze the nature of knowledge and ignorance and imitation.”

I had a Scientologist explain to me what is known as the Fibonacci sequence.

I told her that this was discovered by an Italian mathematician Named Fibonacci around the year 1500.

She replied, "Well, I don't know who this Fibonacci guy is, all I know is I heard about it first on an LRH tape."

I had another lady recently tell me that the original Ft Harrison building was personally designed by LRH.

I said you mean the Superpower building?

She said no, the original Ft. Harrison building.

So I said sarcastically, "That's pretty good, because he was only around 10 years old when it was built."

She replied enthusiastically, "Yeah, he was amazing, wasn't he!"

I know I never would have been that bad off while in Scientology.


The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Gib]

Another reason to love Plato.

“And whenever any one informs us that he has found a man who knows all the arts, and all things else that anybody knows, and every

single thing with a higher degree of accuracy than any other man –whoever tells us this, I think that we can only imagine him to be

a simple creature who is likely to have been deceived by some wizard or actor whom he met, and whom he thought all-knowing, because

he himself was unable to analyze the nature of knowledge and ignorance and imitation.”

― Plato, The Republic

I have no doubts that had I been educated before Scientology with at least a basic understanding of philosophical ideas I would have laughed off Hubbard as a joke.

But unfortunately, I wasn't educated.

I was "a simple creature who is likely to have been deceived by some wizard or actor whom he met, and whom he thought all-

knowing, because he himself was unable to analyze the nature of knowledge and ignorance and imitation.”

I had a Scientologist explain to me what is known as the Fibonacci sequence.

I told her that this was discovered by an Italian mathematician Named Fibonacci around the year 1500.

She replied, "Well, I don't know who this Fibonacci guy is, all I know is I heard about it first on an LRH tape."

I had another lady recently tell me that the original Ft Harrison building was personally designed by LRH.

I said you mean the Superpower building?

She said no, the original Ft. Harrison building.

So I said sarcastically, "That's pretty good, because he was only around 10 years old when it was built."

She replied enthusiastically, "Yeah, he was amazing, wasn't he!"

I know I never would have been that bad off while in Scientology.


The Anabaptist Jacques

dam straight TAJ.

I've been reading up on the old stuff and some new stuff. Once one gets used to the lingo, it ain't so bad to read.

Hubbard sure did a number on "misdirection" in saying that he read all the old masters, that they were confusing, and he Hubbard organized it all for the common man, so he controlled our attention on his so called organized body of data. Of course, experiencing "wins" locked us in.

"misdirection" - to misdirect attention is to control attention. - Fred Robinson, British Magican.

"We talk of misdirection, but this term itself is inaccurate. As a magican, I am not aiming to divert your attention away from a action. I am striving to direct your attention toward something else. ...........Misdirection is not about distraction, it is about constantly controlling what the audience is thinking at each moment." - Steve Cohen, The Millionaires Magican, book "Win the Crowd".

Quick example:

1. How many fingers does one man have on his hands?
2. How many fingers on ten hands?

Anybody care to answer.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

dam straight TAJ.

I've been reading up on the old stuff and some new stuff. Once one gets used to the lingo, it ain't so bad to read.

Hubbard sure did a number on "misdirection" in saying that he read all the old masters, that they were confusing, and he Hubbard organized it all for the common man, so he controlled our attention on his so called organized body of data. Of course, experiencing "wins" locked us in.

"misdirection" - to misdirect attention is to control attention. - Fred Robinson, British Magican.

"We talk of misdirection, but this term itself is inaccurate. As a magican, I am not aiming to divert your attention away from a action. I am striving to direct your attention toward something else. ...........Misdirection is not about distraction, it is about constantly controlling what the audience is thinking at each moment." - Steve Cohen, book "Win the Crowd".

Quick example:

1. How many fingers does one man have on his hands?
2. How many fingers on ten hands?

Anybody care to answer.

1. 8

2. 40

 

[Commander Birdsong]

dam straight TAJ.

I've been reading up on the old stuff and some new stuff. Once one gets used to the lingo, it ain't so bad to read.

Hubbard sure did a number on "misdirection" in saying that he read all the old masters, that they were confusing, and he Hubbard organized it all for the common man, so he controlled our attention on his so called organized body of data. Of course, experiencing "wins" locked us in.

"misdirection" - to misdirect attention is to control attention. - Fred Robinson, British Magican.

"We talk of misdirection, but this term itself is inaccurate. As a magican, I am not aiming to divert your attention away from a action. I am striving to direct your attention toward something else. ...........Misdirection is not about distraction, it is about constantly controlling what the audience is thinking at each moment." - Steve Cohen, The Millionaires Magican, book "Win the Crowd".

Quick example:

1. How many fingers does one man have on his hands?
2. How many fingers on ten hands?

Anybody care to answer.

ten and fifty though 100 did flash at first

 

[Commander Birdsong]

1. 8

2. 40

a thumb can also be counted as a finger...

 

[JustSheila]

Thanks, TAJ. You write some of the most amazing posts on Philosophy. Reading Plato is terrific. I, too, wish I'd read Plato before scn.

When I first left scn, there weren't any obvious exscns around, so the best way I could address the cognitive dissonance was with university classes on Philosophy and Psychology. Fortunately for me, I'd become fascinated with Henry David Thoreau in a high school literature class and read one of his books, Walden Pond, on my own as a teen before scn.

From Walden Pond:

“Every path but your own is the path of fate. Keep on your own track, then.”

Thoreau went to great lengths to never repeat the same activity - each day, he took different paths to draw water or gather food, even if he had to walk miles out of his way. He felt repetitiveness was a mind-numbing activity that dulled our senses. Every day is a miracle and one could not be fully aware and enjoy every moment if our actions were repetitive.

Thoreau believed every person's path in life is a unique experience, that there was never one correct path for everyone. This jarred with the concept of a "Bridge to Total Freedom". Thank goodness I read Thoreau before Hubbard - the dissonance from this Thoreau concept helped keep me from becoming completely brainwashed, enough that I eventually left on my own.

But I missed so much wisdom studying Thoreau as a kid. Much of it would have helped me in my recovery, if I'd understood some other concepts, like:

“All change is a miracle to contemplate, but it is a miracle which is taking place every instant.”

The changes that make us mature and grow spiritually happen on their own as we pursue our own paths, we don't have to make them happen. I didn't understand that fully before scn. And:

“I found in myself, and still find, an instinct toward a higher, or, as it is named, spiritual life, as do most men, and another toward a primitive rank and savage one, and I reverence them both. I love the wild not less than the good.”

“Confucius said, "To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge.”

These last two say it all to me. Now I understand it - but I didn't understand these things before scn or I would have laughed off the personality test and told the people there that I like every bit of my personality and myself just the way I am. I'll follow my own path, thank you.

“Not till we are lost, in other words not till we have lost the world, do we begin to find ourselves, and realize where we are and the infinite extent of our relations.”

^^THIS helped give me the courage to leave, and the confirmation that leaving was the right thing to do and forgive myself for the mistakes I made by joining the criminal organization of Scientology.

I need to re-study Thoreau and Plato. There is so much more I didn't get the first time around.

 

[Gib]

ten and fifty though 100 did flash at first

Here's the explanation as written by Steve Cohen:

"If you're like most people, you answered 'ten' and 'one hundred'. The first answer is correct. The second answer is wrong. Go back and read it again.

This simple example shows how misdirection works in a nutshell. The first question leads you down a particular path and puts you in a certain state of mind. When you arrive at the second question, you base your answer on your answer to the first question. Ten times ten equals one hundred. Seems simple. And that's what misdirection is. Simple. On the receiving end, it seems so harmless. So easy. Nevertheless, by the time you reach the finish line, you've missed out on some information along the way.

By the way, the second answer in the above game is 'fifty'."

----------------

I read Dianetics, it had a card in it that said come in for a free auditing session. I got the free auditing session. I went into a secondary, cried, emotional release. I said to myself "wow, this stuff works".

That would be question number one. I got the right answer.

And for 26 years I seeking 100. When the real answer was quite different, more like minus 100. I sure missed out on some information along that path in scientology.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

a thumb can also be counted as a finger...

Nope, a thumb is a thumb ... and a finger is a finger (and I'm waving one of mine as we speak ... at Steve Cohen, not at you Birdie).



PS No need to argue on this, I do realise some people consider a thumb a finger (really, really wrong people).

 

[Gib]

Nope, a thumb is a thumb ... and a finger is a finger (and I'm waving one of mine as we speak ... at Steve Cohen, not at you Birdie).



PS No need to argue on this, I do realise some people consider a thumb a finger (really, really wrong people).

that means bye.

 

[uniquemand]

that means bye.

Love your avatar.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

...

Scientolgists have no need for Plato. . .

Because they already have Play-Doh.

 

[Mystic]

Another reason to love Plato.

“And whenever any one informs us that he has found a man who knows all the arts, and all things else that anybody knows, and every

single thing with a higher degree of accuracy than any other man –whoever tells us this, I think that we can only imagine him to be

a simple creature who is likely to have been deceived by some wizard or actor whom he met, and whom he thought all-knowing, because

he himself was unable to analyze the nature of knowledge and ignorance and imitation.”

― Plato, The Republic

I have no doubts that had I been educated before Scientology with at least a basic understanding of philosophical ideas I would have laughed off Hubbard as a joke.

But unfortunately, I wasn't educated.

I was "a simple creature who is likely to have been deceived by some wizard or actor whom he met, and whom he thought all-

knowing, because he himself was unable to analyze the nature of knowledge and ignorance and imitation.”

I had a Scientologist explain to me what is known as the Fibonacci sequence.

I told her that this was discovered by an Italian mathematician Named Fibonacci around the year 1500.

She replied, "Well, I don't know who this Fibonacci guy is, all I know is I heard about it first on an LRH tape."

I had another lady recently tell me that the original Ft Harrison building was personally designed by LRH.

I said you mean the Superpower building?

She said no, the original Ft. Harrison building.

So I said sarcastically, "That's pretty good, because he was only around 10 years old when it was built."

She replied enthusiastically, "Yeah, he was amazing, wasn't he!"

I know I never would have been that bad off while in Scientology.


The Anabaptist Jacques

Oh my yes, TAJ. The level of abject idiocy we must admit to for following the spews of a tulpa...thank gawhd we have learned to laugh at our selves.

 

[Gib]

Love your avatar.

thanks,

poof

I do wish to thank the old timers for telling their story.

 

[Teanntás]

Another reason to love Plato.

“And whenever any one informs us that he has found a man who knows all the arts, and all things else that anybody knows, and every

single thing with a higher degree of accuracy than any other man –whoever tells us this, I think that we can only imagine him to be

a simple creature who is likely to have been deceived by some wizard or actor whom he met, and whom he thought all-knowing, because

he himself was unable to analyze the nature of knowledge and ignorance and imitation.”

― Plato, The Republic

I have no doubts that had I been educated before Scientology with at least a basic understanding of philosophical ideas I would have laughed off Hubbard as a joke.

But unfortunately, I wasn't educated.

I was "a simple creature who is likely to have been deceived by some wizard or actor whom he met, and whom he thought all-

knowing, because he himself was unable to analyze the nature of knowledge and ignorance and imitation.”

I had a Scientologist explain to me what is known as the Fibonacci sequence.

I told her that this was discovered by an Italian mathematician Named Fibonacci around the year 1500.

She replied, "Well, I don't know who this Fibonacci guy is, all I know is I heard about it first on an LRH tape."

I had another lady recently tell me that the original Ft Harrison building was personally designed by LRH.

I said you mean the Superpower building?

She said no, the original Ft. Harrison building.

So I said sarcastically, "That's pretty good, because he was only around 10 years old when it was built."

She replied enthusiastically, "Yeah, he was amazing, wasn't he!"

I know I never would have been that bad off while in Scientology.


The Anabaptist Jacques

You know many of us had studied Plato and the great philosophers before we got in and we were not looking for a philosophy. What many of us were looking for was a practice, a means to resolve the problems of the mind and life. We knew that it was possible to create such a practice. And that was what was emphasised by the organization when I got in and as far as I can tell it is still the hook in getting recruits to this day.

 

[JustSheila]

You know many of us had studied Plato and the great philosophers before we got in and we were not looking for a philosophy. What many of us were looking for was a practice, a means to resolve the problems of the mind and life. We knew that it was possible to create such a practice. And that was what was emphasised by the organization when I got in and as far as I can tell it is still the hook in getting recruits to this day.

I agree with all except that one underscored sentence.

We wanted it, but we were forging our own ways and having our own troubles and maturing in our own ways until we "knew" in the bubble world of hypnotised scn zombies, that we had such a thing. Hubbard convinced us it existed, that he had found it, so we could all quit researching, looking and trying to find truth, he had it all figured out and all we had to do was follow his path.

Before that, it was a motivation, a thrust to a more ideal state that is innate in all of us.

The knowing part was false, but it hooked us. What a relief it was at the time to all us idealists. How badly we wanted to believe. What we actually knew - and still know, and always knew - was that sort of an all-encompassing ideal practice does not exist - yet. We wanted to believe.

Just as a person can be in love with the idea of being in love, we were, as idealists, in love with the idea of someone actually solving all the problems of the world.

 

[The_Fixer]

Here's the explanation as written by Steve Cohen:

"If you're like most people, you answered 'ten' and 'one hundred'. The first answer is correct. The second answer is wrong. Go back and read it again.

This simple example shows how misdirection works in a nutshell. The first question leads you down a particular path and puts you in a certain state of mind. When you arrive at the second question, you base your answer on your answer to the first question. Ten times ten equals one hundred. Seems simple. And that's what misdirection is. Simple. On the receiving end, it seems so harmless. So easy. Nevertheless, by the time you reach the finish line, you've missed out on some information along the way.

<SNIPPED>

Like that other one where you ask someone 2 questions.

Spell "Shop". They say "S - H - O - P."

Then ask, "What do you do when you come to a red light?"

An awful lot of people will say "Stop".

Same principle.

 

[Gib]

Like that other one where you ask someone 2 questions.

Spell "Shop". They say "S - H - O - P."

Then ask, "What do you do when you come to a red light?"

An awful lot of people will say "Stop".

Same principle.

that's not quite right

 

[Gib]

Nope, a thumb is a thumb ... and a finger is a finger (and I'm waving one of mine as we speak ... at Steve Cohen, not at you Birdie).



PS No need to argue on this, I do realise some people consider a thumb a finger (really, really wrong people).

same here

 

[I told you I was trouble]

same here

If he'd asked the same question using toes (instead of fingers) I'd have said 10 and 50 and you'd have thought I was a clever clogs wouldn't ya?



I thought (him using fingers) was a part of the trick!

Ah well.

Such is life.

Posted by The_Fixer

Like that other one where you ask someone 2 questions.

Spell "Shop". They say "S - H - O - P."

Then ask, "What do you do when you come to a red light?"

An awful lot of people will say "Stop".

Same principle.

Yep, same thing ... it doesn't say a red traffic light.

 

[Gib]

If he'd asked the same question using toes (instead of fingers) I'd have said 10 and 50 and you'd have thought I was a clever clogs wouldn't ya?



I thought (him using fingers) was a part of the trick!

Ah well.

Such is life.








Yep, same thing ... it doesn't say a red traffic light.

When I read the book, it's still in my out basket, to return to the library,

I answered 10 and 100.

I was duped.

It wasn't a test of one's intelligence.