Scientology vs. Anthroposophy

[AnonKat]

Scientology vs. Anthroposophy​

(Lafayette Ron Hubbard vs. Rudolf Steiner)​

http://uncletaz.com/hubbstein.html

Background


In December 1996, my co-editors in the Norwegian anarchist magazine Gateavisa asked me to research the scientology internet war concerning their copyrighted holy scriptures that had been authored by Ron Hubbard and write an article about it. When my article had been published, I sent a copy of the magazine to ex-scientologist Steve Fishman in Florida, who had been one of the featured players in the drama. During the course of our ensuing correspondence, I mentioned that I had been an anthroposophist for three decades and that I had never felt drawn to scientology, but always had a certain aversion against it. On the other hand, I wondered if Hubbard had borrowed concepts from Rudolf Steiner as well as from Helena Blavatsky and altered them to fit his own system. This led to a request from Fishman to write an analytical comparison between anthroposophy and scientology. This project was started by me but never finished. The task is, after all, enormous.


Very recently I became aware of a fact that I find disturbing: Certain anthroposophists pendle Ron Hubbard's tech along with Rudolf Steiner's class lessons and Knowledge of the Higher Worlds. They even claim that representatives of The Anthroposophical Society should join forces with top brass scientologists to learn from each other for mutual benefit. In my personal opinion, this is very disturbing indeed. First, scientology represents a threat of spiritual pollution in the anthroposophical community if anthroposophists adopt and practice Hubbard's concepts and methods. Secondly, the Church of Scientology will undoubtedly exploit this opportunity to "gather intelligence" from the Anthroposophical Movement, especially its organized institutions. This intelligence may be used to harm, blackmail, or crush such organizations at any given moment. Anthroposophy is, after all, another "implant," another "lie,' as long as it is not identical with scientology.


The time must be ripe to publish my unfinished project on this website. The reader should keep in mind, however, that the following text was intended for an audience more or less familiar with Ron Hubbard's scientology but total strangers to Rudolf Steiner's anthroposophy.


- Tarjei Straume, december 1998

READ MOAR AT: http://uncletaz.com/hubbstein.html

 

[AlphOhm]

Scientology vs. Anthroposophy​

(Lafayette Ron Hubbard vs. Rudolf Steiner)​

http://uncletaz.com/hubbstein.html

Steve Fishman--quoted as a "researcher"?



He is historically a fiction writer, claiming truth to the fiction. IMHO he has credibility of -36 or so.


Oh wait--this is just another spam/stat post by AnonKat...

 

[AnonKat]

Steve Fishman--quoted as a "researcher"?



He is historically a fiction writer, claiming truth to the fiction. IMHO he has credibility of -36 or so.


Oh wait--this is just another spam/stat post by AnonKat...

read the whole article

 

[Gadfly]

Before SCN involvement, I read a great deal of Steiner, and a great deal of Theosophy - Annie Besant, Leadbeater, Alice Bailey (loved her stuff) and other "channeled works" from the "Tibetan Masters".

These subjects are very eastern-influenced, very complex (much detail in some of it), and rooted in Hindu sources (whether channeled from Hindus or not). Also, for the most part, they are largely "stories" and "data" with very little "application" (granted Steiner gives techniques to explore various mental and emotional relams - similar in ways to Rosicrucian systems).

The common aspect of ALL of these self-betterment expansion subjects is that you can improve yourself, become more than human and expand spiritually. THAT is the DREAM - that is the HOPE. That is the KEY to all of these.

While not true for Scientology, most other eastern-influenced systems have the notion that "all is naturally evolving", and that you will "expand" and "arrive" sooner or later, no matter what you choose to do. The idea is that for those who want to accelerate the process, there are methods and techniques available to speed up the "evolution" process. As always in these systems of thought, there is the notion of "becoming better, expanding and evolving". There is also usually the subtle elitist notion that the rest of humanity is "below and behind". In Scn, Hubbard came up with the idea of the "dwindling spiral", where all is decaying and falling apart, UNLESS YOU ACT NOW to reverse the downfall. No "natural evolution" in Hubbard's system of thought. In truth, Hubbard's "dwindling spiral" does have some similarity to the Hindu notion of the Yugas - eras - where we are supposedly in the final stage - the Kali Yuga - the most degraded state furthest from "God".

Of course, the question is ARE YOU A SPIRIT, and can you transcend your humaness? Lots of people and systems say that this is the way it is.

The big problem, of course, is due to the shysters, hoaxsters (not you Helluva Hoax) and scammers. Using the aim and hope to become better as a LURE and CARROT ON A STICK to sucker you to invest time, money and energy.

This has been discussed before, and there are excellent writings on the Internet and in books about the evolution of modern "esoterica" from earlier eastern (largely Hindu) sources. It started with Spiritualism and Theosophy in the 1800s, the West's fascination with the "occult", and it continues today, as Scientology in one form. But these many subjects are largely unrelated as far as the details go, and it is only the general aims and goals that are similar.

Personally, I always had a high affinity for that stuff - I still do, and probably always will. But now I am less likely to go the sucker route!

But also, I have happily fully accepted my "humaness" - I like it ALL - the mind, the spirit, AND the body! And, I accept it all, just as it is. No more elitism for me, whether that be in the form of Scn's "OT", the Ubermensch of Adolph Hitler, or Neitzche's "Superman". Much could be written comparing those ideas and philosophies (and nasty behaviors).

 

[nozeno]

Scientology vs. Colonoscopy

​

 

[AnonKat]

spirits

Before SCN involvement, I read a great deal of Steiner, and a great deal of Theosophy - Annie Besant, Leadbeater, Alice Bailey (loved her stuff) and other "channeled works" from the "Tibetan Masters".



Of course, the question is ARE YOU A SPIRIT, and can you transcend your humaness? Lots of people and systems say that this is the way it is.

SPIRITS

12. Ron Hubbard's Body Thetans vs. Rudolf Steiner's Elemental Spirits

Rudolf Steiner had a great variety of concepts that are very parallell to Ron Hubbard's BTs. The most important of these to mention, is the activities of the higher hierarchies when man is asleep. When we have been awake for an extended period of time, we must leave our bodies. We are tired, exhausted. We must leave our bodies in order for the angels and archangels to take over. They revitalize our bodies, healing various damages we cause with our lifestyles and our imperfect souls and spirits. Thanks to these invisible nurses and doctors, we wake up refreshed and invigorized. These Anthroposophical BTs are the invisible servants of Christ the Healer. Plants and animals, fishes and insects, all living beings that require sleep, are renewed in the same say.


Steiner also spoke of elemental spirits in nature, that have been portrayed in myths and fairy tales as elves, gnomes, undines etc. Some of these are linked to our physical and psychic existence in various ways. On the basis of his clairvoyant observations, Steiner described spirits who are attracted to cleverness and gather in libraries and universities, and who are vital to our clever thinking. He also described spirits who are quite hideous in appearance, but who cause us to be moved to the depth of our being, to tears in fact, by something beautiful. He explained how those muscles that we cannot ourselves move, such as those of digestion and similar bodily functions, are the activities of higher hierarchies.


There are so-called fallen spirits involved with our bodies as well, or demons as they are called in traditional religions, causing imbalances and illnesses, during which there is a struggle going on between retarded and progressive gods. (The conditions, or evolutionary stages, of cosmic beings are related to former planetary epochs, the descriptions of which are also to be found in the Vedas, or the Hindu Scriptures.)


This is why I was at first a little startled at Hubbard's system of body thetans, especially when I was confronted with his detailed description of how they should be talked to, how they should be 'blown', how they gather in 'clusters,' etc. Now I have come to recognize that Scientology auditing brings about som kind of schizophrenia, or multiple personalities called 'valences'. This makes it extremely difficult to analyze the BT phenomenon in Scientology by using Anthroposophical concepts as a tool of investigation. (I would welcome contributions to this.)

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

duplicate post

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

I used to live near Forest Row (in Sussex, England) which was a big center for the Steiner teachings. I had an anthroposophical doctor for a while and did Saturday morning art classes at the Steiner art school, Tobias College.

I tried reading Steiner but I found him very humourless; he was entirely without humour, as far as I could see, and his stuff was dense and difficult in my experience.

Once I discovered the White Eagle teachings (I attended a White Eagle church in Sussex for a few months), I lost all interest in reading Steiner's stuff - White Eagle covers the same theosophical ground but much more simply and readably IMO.

It may be for others, but it wasn't for me. I believe L Kin (Ulrich Kramer?) also had a look at Steiner's teachings and expanded on one or two of his ideas in his (L. Kin's) books.

 

[Wants2Talk]

I like what I see in Steiner so far. Just getting started.

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

read the whole article

I'm not about to go and read the whole article because I find the section you have quoted disturbing enough. Comparing one religious dataset with another can take an entire life-time and achieves very little. Hubtard got one thing right: "What's true, is what's true for you."

I don't go on mad searches around the internet looking to back up an empty argument. I let pieces of data find me. Then I assemble them into an order the suits me. That doesn't mean that I am right, although I would rather be happy than right any day. It doesn't mean that others are wrong.

The way my current faith/belief structure has been built is like Lego. All the little bits can be re-arranged if I so feel like it, or to suit a new piece of data. Unlike that other great religion called "Science", I don't go modifying the facts to suit the now outdated theory, I keep updating the theory. I share bits with people who ask and, I hopefully set a decent example for the rest.

Another very discredited science writer, Ralph René, coined the term "Emotional Belief System". Your EBS is what makes you cry out "Bull$#@%" when you encounter something that clashes with your current beliefs, basically your indoctrination. René admits that on his own path to learning, many a book has hit the nearest available wall.

So, these days, I no longer consider myself a follower of any ~ISM or ~OLOGY or ~OSOPHY. Even the dictionary can answer your most Spiritual question if it falls open on the right page.