Steve Hall's post on closed Indy Facebook group

[Boomima]

I see how you are...

 

[Boomima]

Hey Boomima, I missed reading about 900 posts or so at the beginning of this thread so this is just my opinion based upon reading the very first post. If someone else can better answer the question - please do...

What Steve is saying is that years ago, way before Steve and Marty and many of the recent "Indie" scientologists who have left the CoS the people who came to be known as freezone scientologists had left the CoS and instead of speaking out publicly against the abuses they observed and did what they could to help those still stuck in the CoS they made some kind of agreement with the CoS, I guess some kind of quid pro quo - we'll be quiet and not speak out against the CoS as long as you leave us along and let us do our thing in peace.

That's my interpretation of it anyway. Some of the Indies probably feel as though the freezoners betrayed them. I'm not sure if you're familiar as yet with the "Ethics Conditions" as yet that Hubbard created - but if so, there is one of the lowest conditions which is Treason which is essentially "betrayal after trust". And as a scientologist, you cannot trust another member of your group who is in one of these lower conditions.

I hope that this made some sense and I didn't confuse you more.

Did they really make a deal or is that just supposition by the Martyphiles? They do seem to trying to invalidate what anyone did before they got out. I would think that labeling them as treasonous would be part of that invalidation.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Did they really make a deal or is that just supposition by the Martyphiles? They do seem to trying to invalidate what anyone did before they got out. I would think that labeling them as treasonous would be part of that invalidation.

I would just be speculating here if I attempted to answer this, but it wouldn't surprise me if they really made a deal.

But for me, it seems a bit odd for the Indies to be judging the other guys so harshly. Some of the recently out Indies held high positions within the CoS when they were in, and THEY couldn't handle the insane situation internally so I don't get what they expected the freezoners to do from the outside. Battling a billion dollar cult isn't the easiest thing to do.

 

[shanic89]

But for me, it seems a bit odd for the Indies to be judging the other guys so harshly. Some of the recently out Indies held high positions within the CoS when they were in, and THEY couldn't handle the insane situation internally so I don't get what they expected the freezoners to do from the outside. Battling a billion dollar cult isn't the easiest thing to do.

The newly out indies I think are trying to once again gain control over some of those that have been out for a while. What would be funny to see is one of the freezone’s being belittled at the moment stand up say that marty and his ilk could not recover them before why do they think it is going to work now.

I do think they are as mad as each other, why has not one of the freezone or indies stood forth with their OT abilities to take command of this sector yet? Oh that’s right there is no such thing, only delusional childish fools believe in such things.

 

[phenomanon]

Did they really make a deal or is that just supposition by the Martyphiles? They do seem to trying to invalidate what anyone did before they got out. I would think that labeling them as treasonous would be part of that invalidation.

IT'S A DAMNED LIE !!!


phenomanon

 

[Free Being Me]

As mentioned, Marty has had a lot to say about the FreeZone - and others he considers to be especially squirrel - but a lot of his message is forwarded by his offsiders:

. . . "Responsibility of Leaders", and all that.

<<<post moved to a begin a new thread - Emma>>>

I would just be speculating here if I attempted to answer this, but it wouldn't surprise me if they really made a deal.

But for me, it seems a bit odd for the Indies to be judging the other guys so harshly. Some of the recently out Indies held high positions within the CoS when they were in, and THEY couldn't handle the insane situation internally so I don't get what they expected the freezoners to do from the outside. Battling a billion dollar cult isn't the easiest thing to do.

After rereading the o.p., SH's "call to ethics", I don't see how an accommodation would be struck with SH's condescending tirade as a deal maker. Maybe dirty ploys, false P.R. and some Hub quotes to manipulate minds, since that is standard tech, would convince some.

Great observation about internal Scio situations, T4!

 

[Type4_PTS]

IT'S A DAMNED LIE !!!

This is what came to mind when you said that. Maybe somebody could swap out some of those pictures.

 

[Caroline]

In the documents that precipitated this thread, Steve Hall gave away a rare look into the mind of a "Scientologist - period." Here is a sampling of claims or assertions Hall made about himself and the Indies, many of which evidence Sea Org style fanaticism, communicated and dramatized by a long term Scientologist now apparently "close to a power."

1. "I, am running out a group engram and I'm actually using the tech to do it which you apparently know NOTHING about."

2. "How many people have I gotten in session running out that group engram? Oh, I have 2.2 million hits so far. You do the math."

3. "Group Dianetics is a tech. I studied it. I am applying it. I got everyone into session and I was the first one to do so. If each person visited my website 50 times, that's still 44,000 people I have audited in 4 years. Let that sink into your brain dead head."

4. "You have the audacity to come into our group and suggest we are just an attacking Miscavige. No, jack ass. I'm auditing more people than you've ever done in your life all added together. We are using the tech. We are auditing. AND we are exposing Miscavige."

5. "I am a Class IV auditor and one of the best group auditors anyone ever heard of."

6. "I'm not management. I'm just someone who knows what an enemy line is and who is not afraid to expose them for what they are."

7. "And for info, I DID visit the FBI before I even built Scientology-cult.com — part of my research during 2008. They told me the primary barrier I faced was that the truth was so incredible it was hard to believe. My solution was to create a multiple viewpoint system (LRH management tech) online called Scientology-cult.com to start the process of running out the GROUP ENGRAM. I personally was the first to do that. "

8. "We are a FIRST."

9. "Being an Independent Scientologist does not mean you have to spend all day every day exposing CoS corruption and crimes. But you call yourself an Independent Scientologist with a capital “I” you better damn well support the attack as THAT IS the core ideal that made us what we are. How do I know? Because I was the person who came up with the entire concept in December 2008 after a year of study and investigation, then built Scientology-cult.com to launch the idea and then worked with Marty and many others for the last few years to help turn that concept into a movement. So I, of all people, am qualified to define what has come to be known as an Independent Scientologist. Like it or not, I was the first one and that’s the truth."

10. "I myself started Scientology-cult.com to run out our 3rd dynamic engram. It IS Group Dianetics in action. How did I learn Group Dianetics? I studied it in the 1990s — read everything LRH ever wrote on the subject. With 2.2 million hits and counting, that equates to getting tens of thousands of people into the session of running out this group engram."

11. " We never sold out. We didn’t desert our comrades. We do not work for OSA. We will not deal. We remain loyal to the human race. We are a FIRST and that is something to be proud of."

12. "And that’s why we have the support of the world and the wind at our backs."

13. "I'm trying to get your ethics in and they are out."

14. "I'm exposing you as the imposter you are."

15. "I worked undercover for the GO for two years. My job: break up SP comm lines. My tools: All the tech in reverse."

16. "(fwiw, I'm not an Independent Scientologist, I'm a Scientologist - period)"

17. "Indie Scientology is growing for one reason, we are getting Ethics in on the CoS. That's the only reason — we are doing what is right despite personal cost."

18. "After studying the scene for a year, I spoke up LOUD and CLEAR in Scientology-cult, starting in Dec 2008. I didn’t make any agreements with the Church of any kind because I believed in HELPING those still in and the rest of the planet. Marty came online almost immediately thereafter and he unleashed his powerhouse of HELP. As a result we grew fast and overtook all earlier efforts within months. Since then we have enabled an entire landslide of people to leave the Church."

19. "What about the rest of us still in the Church trying to figure out what is going on?"

20. "And as I sit here being dev-ted by you and your friends, I'm actually working on another pieced of that infrastructure."

21. "My friends Marc and Claire Headley sued the Church and STOPPED the practice of forced abortions."

22. "The Indies aren't the "new group" we are the fiercest mother fuckers DM ever ran into and we are going to finish him period as we've done many times before throughout history, and then restore THE BRIDGE TO FREEDOM IN FULL."

23. "So who is DM that the entirety of Scientology — every person in it — went PTS to him? I'll tell you who he is: dead meat."

24. "You guys don't get what we are going. We are doing BOTH. We are getting in ethics AND starting groups, and centers and a whole new community-based structure. You aren't dealing with my "charge" — I'm getting your ethics in because you guys keep wanting us to recognize that you were here first."

25. "Actually I like all these guys, I respect them tremendously and know they are helping. But they should not be here to recruit people out of Independent Scientology. It's not "counter intention" it's "other determinism." We are making it safe for them and everyone to operate. If they would get their ethics in, we could promote them on our websites and send them pcs. That will soon be happening in greater quantity."

26. "You just saw the release of iScientology.org. There's something else coming and I've been working around the clock for over a month on these two projects to get them done. We are putting in various things to handle these functions on the cycle of production and org board."

27. "Every month Roy, 1.2 million people Google the word "Scientology." That is a river of people. Not one drop of that river is getting onto the Bridge in the Church. I am doing some engineering to divert that entire river into our front door and up the Bridge. But before you divert a river, you had better have some structure in place for that river to flow. So I have been putting that structure into place so it has somewhere to go. You have been seeing some of the pieces appear one by one. Freeandable.com — where any field auditor can list for free and pcs can be sent there to find auditors near to them. They can even search by zip code. Then you just saw iScietonlogy.org, our flagship site for Independent Scientology where people are going to learn about us as a group. There are two more giant pieces I'm putting into place that will come before those the others do divert that river and drive people into our delivery resources so they can move up the Bridge. But as LRH said in a Flag Order, do not "let the enemy in on our operations" So I can't brief everyone on exactly what I'm doing. What you can do is help me by getting your friends all on the same page, where should be."

28. "I attacked for good reasons that are written into the very policies Gayle Smith has copied into this thread. "Class VIII" doesn't make someone in ethics. It is a help flow to get ethics in."

29. "I slept 3 1/2 hours last night because as I said I am working around the clock to get this next project finished for Independent Scientology. I don't get paid for any of this. For iScientology.org I worked 215 hours in 12 days."

30. "Right now I'm trying to debug some design problems..."

31. "By the way, I get very testy and short tempered when I'm tired, incase that blows down for anyone."

Facebook entries. Retrieved via http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?29123-Steve-Hall-s-post-on-closed-Indy-Facebook-group&p=742712&viewfull=1#post742712

 

[Daisy]

15. "I worked undercover for the GO for two years. My job: break up SP comm lines. My tools: All the tech in reverse."

Whatever does Steve hall mean by this?

 

[Smilla]

15. "I worked undercover for the GO for two years. My job: break up SP comm lines. My tools: All the tech in reverse."

Whatever does Steve hall mean by this?

You should answer that Steve.

 

[TG1]

IMHO, this discussion has become grudge match material.

But because I really want to see the Steve Hall v. Freezone discussion preserved in a public forum, is there any chance the mods could bifurcate the initial Steve Hall discussion from the other stuff?

In case anybody thinks by making this request I have a dog in this hunt, I do not. In fact, I hereby stipulate that I am not the boss of anybody.

TG1

 

[AnonyMary]

15. "I worked undercover for the GO for two years. My job: break up SP comm lines. My tools: All the tech in reverse."

Whatever does Steve hall mean by this?

From my limited experience and knowledge of such things, his job was to get the SPs off the church or scientologists comm lines, so they would go away. And in accomplishing this , he used the tech in reverse. Marty calls this kind of thing ( only when Miscavige is using it.) as Black Dianetics because Hubbard discusses in an old reference how Dianetics can be used in reverse to cause difficulties and harm. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Dianetics

Frankly, all it means is using scientology to harm or destroy. Reverse or not, it can and does do that. Spin people in, make them think they are crazy, or do things that are unethical.... or that they have lived past lives or that Scientology works ;P

So his job was to work on these 'SP comm lines' to destroy, or remove SP connections, most likely to the church, like government officials who were trying to get Hubbard put in jail or going against their targets to infiltrate society, like going after what the church called SP squirrels, meaning people like David Mayo. The list of 'enemies' is endless now but back then it was the psychs, the government and connections that could destroy or stop targets the church was working on in society .

Hope this helps.

 

[Goodbye]

15. "I worked undercover for the GO for two years. My job: break up SP comm lines. My tools: All the tech in reverse."

Whatever does Steve hall mean by this?

And still doing that...Indies vs. FZ. The Miscavige wanna-be of the FZ.

 

[Caroline]

15. "I worked undercover for the GO for two years. My job: break up SP comm lines. My tools: All the tech in reverse."

Whatever does Steve hall mean by this?

That's a good question Daisy. Hall expresses a couple of important memes: "breaking up SP comm lines" and "all the tech in reverse."

Breaking up SP comm lines: Hubbard orders the capture and use of enemy comm lines in Battle Tactics:

One cuts off enemy communications, funds, connections. He deprives the enemy of political advantages, connections and power. He takes over enemy territory. He raids and harasses.

[...]

It is fatal to attack a wrong enemy. But it is good tactics to make the enemy attack wrong targets or persons himself.

[...]

You preserve the image or increase it of your own troops and degrade the image of the enemy to beast level.

Always be ready to parley but watch for tricks. Don’t give the enemy breathing space.

Capture and use his comm lines. A press magnate on your side is a big win.

Hubbard, L. R., (1969, 16 February). Battle Tactics. (Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter).

Here are the vital targets for Scientologists, in which Hubbard directed the [strike]subversion of[/strike] takeover of the control or allegiance of the heads of news media, key political figures and those who monitor international finance.

The vital targets on which we must invest most of our time are:

T1. Depopularizing the enemy to a point of total obliteration.

T2. Taking over the control or allegiance of the heads or proprietors of all news media.

T3. Taking over the control or allegiance of key political figures.

T4. Taking over the control or allegiance of those who monitor international finance and shifting them to a less precarious finance standard.

T5. Generally revitalizing the societies in which we are operating.

T6. Winning overwhelming public support.

T7. Use all other similar groups as allies.

Hubbard, L. R., (1969, 16 February). (Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter.) Targets, Defense.

The Indy FB documents show Steve Hall's effort to "get ethics in on" the Early Indies, even to the point of ordering that some of them leave. Hall's behavior was rejected by some, but he also received expressions of acceptance and support, such as from Karen de la Carriere.

As a way to interpret Hall's actions, it seems that Karen introduced Hubbard's [STRIKE]advice[/STRIKE] order on how to attain a Position of Power by "bringing order."

I have a copy of LRH advice which I am willing to scan ~~ it is written on how to attain a Position of Power. ...Here's a snip.."Bring order and permit growth and prosperity to good forces (8 dyn formula

Scientologists "bring order" using Division One policies, specifically "ethics" directives. It is the hat of HCO personnel to "Bring Order," and it is the responsibility of every Scientologist to assist in that activity and goal. "HCO Bring Order!"

Well-known examples of how Scientologists "break up SP comm lines" include what they did to infiltrate, subvert, break up, etc., the Cult Awareness Network and the Lisa McPherson Trust. Breaking up CAN and the LMT was considered highly ethical and laudable behavior, and not disgusting.

All the tech in reverse: Scientologists understand all of Hubbard's tech means everything to do with Ethics, Tech (auditing), and Admin. Applying the tech in reverse is an effort to seek the destruction of the target, rather than its "survival" or expansion. The general term for "all the tech in reverse" is "Black Dianetics." Essentially, it means acting in an antisocial manner toward designated SP targets.

As far as training someone in Black Dianetics, it is taught in the general milieu of Scientology (PTS/SP course, Ethics Specialist Course, Dissem Course, Sec Checker course, Staff hatting courses, etc.) Steve Hall was practicing it on Facebook against Ian Waxler, Michael Moore, et al.

 

[Anonycat]

Panda posted a great thread on standard GO operations and methodology. He's an encyclopedia of information.

 

[Moderator 1]

IMHO, this discussion has become grudge match material.

But because I really want to see the Steve Hall v. Freezone discussion preserved in a public forum, is there any chance the mods could bifurcate the initial Steve Hall discussion from the other stuff?

In case anybody thinks by making this request I have a dog in this hunt, I do not. In fact, I hereby stipulate that I am not the boss of anybody.

TG1

200+ posts re Gerry Armstrong that derailed this thread have been moved here:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?29289-Snippage-from-Steve-Hall-thread-re-Gerry-Armstrong
I have tried to keep the conversations intact so that both threads make sense.

 

[Jquepublic]

Wait, Hall was GO? I thought when the shit hit the fan that GO was disbanded and everyone was kicked off staff. Maybe he was transferred before then? Or is my info all wrong...mind you I spoke to one former GO, one time about what went down, but he did say that's what happened. Now I'm wishing I'd asked more questions.

I'm less worried about Hall's background in "Black Dianetics" than I am about his marketing skill. He's working overtime to launch this new advertising campaign for Scientology.

Why the hell can't these guys just do their own thing and knock off the crazy "must form a group" crap that landed everyone in a cult in the first bloody place?!

 

[TG1]

^^^^ What she said.

TG1

 

[Smilla]

Wait, Hall was GO? I thought when the shit hit the fan that GO was disbanded and everyone was kicked off staff. Maybe he was transferred before then? Or is my info all wrong...mind you I spoke to one former GO, one time about what went down, but he did say that's what happened. Now I'm wishing I'd asked more questions.

I'm less worried about Hall's background in "Black Dianetics" than I am about his marketing skill. He's working overtime to launch this new advertising campaign for Scientology.

Why the hell can't these guys just do their own thing and knock off the crazy "must form a group" crap that landed everyone in a cult in the first bloody place?!

The brainwashing wears off if not topped-up regularly, and a group is necessary to create the virtual reality that takes the place of the world everyone else lives in.

 

[Gottabrain]

The brainwashing wears off if not topped-up regularly, and a group is necessary to create the virtual reality that takes the place of the world everyone else lives in.

Mostly true. Good point.

This too, shall pass. Like MAB said, the ones delivering the OT levels are pretty much aged Scns anyway. It's not like COS makes auditors these days.

But they are no longer isolated from the rest of the world, either, and don't practice a lot of the other abusive practices (RPF, etc). Those will wear off, and as they come closer to the median, they will (and do) find more to agree with outside Scn.