Royal Prince Xenu
Trust the Psi Corps.
"INAY"? I need a yawn?
Tag end, of the catalyst for me & parts of a story
- Thread starter Carmel
- Start date
scooter
Gold Meritorious Patron
"I'm not auditing you."
Used especially for interviews and confessionals when the data gotten from the person is then used for "ethics purposes."
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
Yes, the INAY disclaimer gives a sort of lip-service to the idea that data disclosed in your "I'm auditing you" sessions won't be used against you at a later time.
We now know better!
We now know better!
Carmel
Crusader
Some additional data, which I feel free to post now
Yeah, the "INAY" did mean that what came up in session could be actionable in ethics, but it was still supposed to be "confidential" and still under the priest penitent privileged trusted agreement. The difference with INAY sessions was that one could be sent to ethics for something that came up, and being sent to ethics was supposed to be for the benefit of the pc (or at least that is what the advice was on it).
Per the Church, this priest penitent thing cut both ways - Whether in session or an INAY session, the auditor, the C/S, and/or "church" staff couldn't be forced to divulge confidential information, but nor were they "permitted" to divulge it to others.
For the record, my 'pc' info that has been divulged to others (in it's twisted form), came up in auditing (like HRD) - It didn't come from info I gave in an auditing confessional, nor an INAY sec check.
The info from my episode in Melbourne in '78 (which was twisted to make me out as a crim), could have only been obtained from records of an auditing session. There's other pc folder info though, which wasn't just simply used to smear my reputation. It was data originally from my pc folder, which was brought up in an INAY interrogation type interview as an 'aid' in showing me what a 'schmuck' I was. In recent times that information has also been used to discredit me, and maybe also as a means to intimidate me into silence.
A bit of history - At the end of '78, my partner had broken off our relationship. I was a mess. I left PNG, went back to NZ for a few weeks, and decided to go to Western Australia hoping for a new start. I actually wanted to just go to bed and stay there, and never get up, because there seemed nothing to get up for anymore, but I didn't allow myself to do that - I kind of forced myself to move on, as ya do.
I went to Perth (in WA), with the intent of picking myself up. It didn't go so well. I got pub work, and art modelling work, and I was living with a bunch of Sannyasins (Orange people - followers of “the Bhagwan” - Shree Rajneesh). Their philosophy was pretty wild - In a nutshell, it was "if ya feel like it, do it and/or experience it". In a pretty short space of time, they were putting pressure on me to take Sannyass (like join them/commit). I didn't and wouldn't, but I went to one of their "encounter group weekends". It was a disaster. I was objecting to something they were putting a girl through, and next thing they were trying to put me through it too. I let loose and I ended up being ostracised by the entire group and my housemates, and by the time I got home all my gear had been thrown in the front yard - They'd kicked me out of the house.
I went into a whole new slump over this. I really didn't care whether I lived or died at that point. Since a very young age (and while I was still at school), I was part of the "alternative scene" and street drugs were the norm. I hated needles and knew heroin was addictive, so I had previously steered clear of it. To cut a long story short, after this episode, I moved into a house with users, and I ended up getting hooked on smack before I knew it.
I had to ‘support’ my habit. I was making good money as a barmaid and an art model, but it wasn't enough. I had a friend who was an 'escort girl' - Generally, you'd go out to dinner with businessmen from out of town, for a fee that the agency would give you some of, then you were free to do 'whatever' for a fee you could pocket yourself. You could also choose to decline on going further if you so wished.
My friend had told her boss at the agency about me, and one afternoon, she rang asking if I could work. I wasn't a looker, but I could mock myself up, and I had the gift of the gab. I was scared shitless, but I needed the dosh, and my friend said that I didn't have to go to bed with the guy if I didn't want to.
I ended up with a few regular clients from interstate, who would be in town once or twice a fortnight. Putting the "sex" aside, I enjoyed their company, and they enjoyed mine. Three of them became pretty good friends, and one of them flew me to Melbourne for a week to accompany him there while he was there on business. One of them, I still have the odd contact with, to this day. I'm not saying it was all good by any means, but nor was it the worst thing in the world. As I look at it today, I am actually more ashamed of supporting the CofS and paying US$20,000 to the IAS, than I am of being a 'prostitute' at that time.
Besides that, I didn't stay in that scene long. With the help of a couple of Tibetan Buddhists who took me down to Margaret River and got me through withdrawals, and then six months later moving to Sydney and joining staff, I never went back there. I WAS in the pits, but I had stepped up, and gotten out of them. If anything, I was proud and happy about where I was now, compared to where I was before. I wasn't carrying much "shame blame and regret", because I considered that now I had a life, was going forward, was helping myself and helping others. I also considered that the only person I had hurt was myself, but now that I wasn't hurting, that whole scene was the past, and was dead and gone.
It wasn't such a biggie, but there were some things about it that were addressed in auditing. It came up in the HRD, and some stuff that I wasn’t particularly aware of came to view and was dealt with. This chapter of my life didn’t come up in auditing after that. It never came up in my confessionals, nor my INAY sec checks. If I'd had a "1st dynamic" confessional, it probably would have, but I never had one of them.
It never came up again until my second "INAY interview" that I described in post #16 on this thread. After me not "submitting" in the first "interview" they clearly wanted to find something which I would submit to, and they did by going through my pc folder. The one thing that could have been found to plough me in, they found and used to do so, and then tried to use as a subject of present time "out-ethics" nearly 20 years after the fact.
I had had intensives of sec checks and months of ethics handlings (just prior to these ‘interviews’), but these actions hadn't 'exposed my crimes', which the RTC MAA (Ty Webb) had decided I had. I had heard the RTC MAA rip sh't out of Shane my "sec checker come interrogator" the night before, for not getting my crimes. He said stuff like "That CI defiant piece of crap in there needs to confront her crimes, and if you weren't such a CI piece of crap you would be getting her to do that”. It's like they just had to find something on me, then rub my face in it so I could see how bad I was.
I look at it today, and think how bloody bizarre. I didn't really think that when I wrote up and posted what occurred, back in September last year. Back then I was still sort of feeling like I had half pie deserved it - My head wasn't saying that, but back then my heart still was. Feral had asked me why I didn't go into detail in that post I wrote about that interview. Well, at the time I wrote it, I couldn't. I was still feeling very degraded about the whole scene and that chapter in my life, and to a large degree I was still 'stuck in' the mindset about it, which I had 'taken on' as a result of that interview and as a result of everything else that had occurred at the time.
That second interview went on for hours. At that point in my life (at 38 years old), there was probably only this one area that anybody could have picked out and used that would have made me feel degraded, because it was something in my life which I was ashamed of (and something which I still am ashamed of to some degree). They found it, and put my face into it, for hours. If Shane hadn’t been an old “trusted” friend, then I may not have put myself in his hands like I did, and gone so effect of it all like I did, but whichever way ya look at it, it was introverting stuff. Whether one has a belief in the auditing tech or not, how on earth could such an action be of benefit to anyone? It couldn't be - It was done in an effort to squash, and it did just that.
Shane was asking for every little itty bitty explicit detail of the sexual encounters I had with my 'clients'. As I had said when I first described it, the RTC MAA, his Mission I/C and Vicki Hannah the CO OSA were watching on. The RTC MAA sometimes got Shane to go back to something we had left, for even more detail.
Shane wasn't just asking and acknowledging. He was commenting with disgust at first, then with what seemed like disdain at what I was "coughing up". It was kind of like "No wonder you are such a fucked unit, and no wonder we have had so much trouble with you". He made comments like "oh God", "yuck", "how could you?", "I'm not surprised that you have been "no case gain", "You've been living a lie, Carmel". "You've done a good job of sucking us all in, Carmel. I wish I had your PR skills". And, after everything seemed exhausted, he aked me questions like "And you thought you were fit to be a mother?", "How long did you think you would last without facing up to this and making up the damage?", "Isn't it about time you came clean in regard to who you actually are?", Isn't it about time that you actually came clean with yourself in regard to who you really are?"
That interview really got to me, and the effect of it (compounded with being ostricised from the group after that) stayed with me for many years, until very recently actually. When I listened to my head, I knew that all that stuff was crap. I'd tell myself "Well, what am I supposed to do, how can I take it back?", and stuff like "To put me 'back there' could serve no purpose but to cave me in and make me submit". But then in my heart I still felt things like "How could I have stooped so low?", "What is innately wrong with me?", "Do I have the right to pretend I am someone who I am not?".
This whole area was fucking with my head for the ten years after those interviews (when I went off lines and when I wouldn’t let myself look at it), and it was still to some degree after I posted about it. That second interview especially, was just mean! I see that clearly now, and more clearly than what I have done this past year - It’s like now I don't just know it in an analytical sense, but I also 'feel' it in the heart sense. It's taken me this long to get to this point.
In recent months, the CofS (with their smear campaigning) have helped me in this regard. Hearing about and being queried about my time as a "smacked out hooker", was "stinging" (people have been briefed on 'who' I am and what I am 'really' am - not!). This action of theirs, has helped me see things more clearly (as opposed to just knowing the theory of it), in relation to that chapter in my past as well as in relation to the tactics used by the CofS in an effort to dominate and/or intimidate me.
Looking at it today, they got me with it eleven years ago, and it contributed to ‘putting me under’. Six months ago they tried to get me with it again by spreading it around. Clearly though, they can't get me with it now. I no longer feel like a piece of shit about it all – If I did, I couldn’t be posting about it like I am today. It's not great, I‘m not proud of it, I haven't liked it being spread around and admittedly it's pissed me off, but it's no longer introverting me and if anything (as usual) it has given me even more motivation to get the truth out about the CofS.
Having the emotional freedom now and a recently restored ‘self esteem’, has allowed me to divulge what really went down in that second interview, and give a better picture of how malicious their intent was and how insidious their actions were. It feels good to tell it how it was, and from an objective perspective where I can now see what actually was and is, as opposed to a subjective one (when I first posted about it) where I was still buying into what they wanted me to believe about myself.
Yeah, the "INAY" did mean that what came up in session could be actionable in ethics, but it was still supposed to be "confidential" and still under the priest penitent privileged trusted agreement. The difference with INAY sessions was that one could be sent to ethics for something that came up, and being sent to ethics was supposed to be for the benefit of the pc (or at least that is what the advice was on it).
Per the Church, this priest penitent thing cut both ways - Whether in session or an INAY session, the auditor, the C/S, and/or "church" staff couldn't be forced to divulge confidential information, but nor were they "permitted" to divulge it to others.
For the record, my 'pc' info that has been divulged to others (in it's twisted form), came up in auditing (like HRD) - It didn't come from info I gave in an auditing confessional, nor an INAY sec check.
The info from my episode in Melbourne in '78 (which was twisted to make me out as a crim), could have only been obtained from records of an auditing session. There's other pc folder info though, which wasn't just simply used to smear my reputation. It was data originally from my pc folder, which was brought up in an INAY interrogation type interview as an 'aid' in showing me what a 'schmuck' I was. In recent times that information has also been used to discredit me, and maybe also as a means to intimidate me into silence.
A bit of history - At the end of '78, my partner had broken off our relationship. I was a mess. I left PNG, went back to NZ for a few weeks, and decided to go to Western Australia hoping for a new start. I actually wanted to just go to bed and stay there, and never get up, because there seemed nothing to get up for anymore, but I didn't allow myself to do that - I kind of forced myself to move on, as ya do.
I went to Perth (in WA), with the intent of picking myself up. It didn't go so well. I got pub work, and art modelling work, and I was living with a bunch of Sannyasins (Orange people - followers of “the Bhagwan” - Shree Rajneesh). Their philosophy was pretty wild - In a nutshell, it was "if ya feel like it, do it and/or experience it". In a pretty short space of time, they were putting pressure on me to take Sannyass (like join them/commit). I didn't and wouldn't, but I went to one of their "encounter group weekends". It was a disaster. I was objecting to something they were putting a girl through, and next thing they were trying to put me through it too. I let loose and I ended up being ostracised by the entire group and my housemates, and by the time I got home all my gear had been thrown in the front yard - They'd kicked me out of the house.
I went into a whole new slump over this. I really didn't care whether I lived or died at that point. Since a very young age (and while I was still at school), I was part of the "alternative scene" and street drugs were the norm. I hated needles and knew heroin was addictive, so I had previously steered clear of it. To cut a long story short, after this episode, I moved into a house with users, and I ended up getting hooked on smack before I knew it.
I had to ‘support’ my habit. I was making good money as a barmaid and an art model, but it wasn't enough. I had a friend who was an 'escort girl' - Generally, you'd go out to dinner with businessmen from out of town, for a fee that the agency would give you some of, then you were free to do 'whatever' for a fee you could pocket yourself. You could also choose to decline on going further if you so wished.
My friend had told her boss at the agency about me, and one afternoon, she rang asking if I could work. I wasn't a looker, but I could mock myself up, and I had the gift of the gab. I was scared shitless, but I needed the dosh, and my friend said that I didn't have to go to bed with the guy if I didn't want to.
I ended up with a few regular clients from interstate, who would be in town once or twice a fortnight. Putting the "sex" aside, I enjoyed their company, and they enjoyed mine. Three of them became pretty good friends, and one of them flew me to Melbourne for a week to accompany him there while he was there on business. One of them, I still have the odd contact with, to this day. I'm not saying it was all good by any means, but nor was it the worst thing in the world. As I look at it today, I am actually more ashamed of supporting the CofS and paying US$20,000 to the IAS, than I am of being a 'prostitute' at that time.
Besides that, I didn't stay in that scene long. With the help of a couple of Tibetan Buddhists who took me down to Margaret River and got me through withdrawals, and then six months later moving to Sydney and joining staff, I never went back there. I WAS in the pits, but I had stepped up, and gotten out of them. If anything, I was proud and happy about where I was now, compared to where I was before. I wasn't carrying much "shame blame and regret", because I considered that now I had a life, was going forward, was helping myself and helping others. I also considered that the only person I had hurt was myself, but now that I wasn't hurting, that whole scene was the past, and was dead and gone.
It wasn't such a biggie, but there were some things about it that were addressed in auditing. It came up in the HRD, and some stuff that I wasn’t particularly aware of came to view and was dealt with. This chapter of my life didn’t come up in auditing after that. It never came up in my confessionals, nor my INAY sec checks. If I'd had a "1st dynamic" confessional, it probably would have, but I never had one of them.
It never came up again until my second "INAY interview" that I described in post #16 on this thread. After me not "submitting" in the first "interview" they clearly wanted to find something which I would submit to, and they did by going through my pc folder. The one thing that could have been found to plough me in, they found and used to do so, and then tried to use as a subject of present time "out-ethics" nearly 20 years after the fact.
I had had intensives of sec checks and months of ethics handlings (just prior to these ‘interviews’), but these actions hadn't 'exposed my crimes', which the RTC MAA (Ty Webb) had decided I had. I had heard the RTC MAA rip sh't out of Shane my "sec checker come interrogator" the night before, for not getting my crimes. He said stuff like "That CI defiant piece of crap in there needs to confront her crimes, and if you weren't such a CI piece of crap you would be getting her to do that”. It's like they just had to find something on me, then rub my face in it so I could see how bad I was.
I look at it today, and think how bloody bizarre. I didn't really think that when I wrote up and posted what occurred, back in September last year. Back then I was still sort of feeling like I had half pie deserved it - My head wasn't saying that, but back then my heart still was. Feral had asked me why I didn't go into detail in that post I wrote about that interview. Well, at the time I wrote it, I couldn't. I was still feeling very degraded about the whole scene and that chapter in my life, and to a large degree I was still 'stuck in' the mindset about it, which I had 'taken on' as a result of that interview and as a result of everything else that had occurred at the time.
That second interview went on for hours. At that point in my life (at 38 years old), there was probably only this one area that anybody could have picked out and used that would have made me feel degraded, because it was something in my life which I was ashamed of (and something which I still am ashamed of to some degree). They found it, and put my face into it, for hours. If Shane hadn’t been an old “trusted” friend, then I may not have put myself in his hands like I did, and gone so effect of it all like I did, but whichever way ya look at it, it was introverting stuff. Whether one has a belief in the auditing tech or not, how on earth could such an action be of benefit to anyone? It couldn't be - It was done in an effort to squash, and it did just that.
Shane was asking for every little itty bitty explicit detail of the sexual encounters I had with my 'clients'. As I had said when I first described it, the RTC MAA, his Mission I/C and Vicki Hannah the CO OSA were watching on. The RTC MAA sometimes got Shane to go back to something we had left, for even more detail.
Shane wasn't just asking and acknowledging. He was commenting with disgust at first, then with what seemed like disdain at what I was "coughing up". It was kind of like "No wonder you are such a fucked unit, and no wonder we have had so much trouble with you". He made comments like "oh God", "yuck", "how could you?", "I'm not surprised that you have been "no case gain", "You've been living a lie, Carmel". "You've done a good job of sucking us all in, Carmel. I wish I had your PR skills". And, after everything seemed exhausted, he aked me questions like "And you thought you were fit to be a mother?", "How long did you think you would last without facing up to this and making up the damage?", "Isn't it about time you came clean in regard to who you actually are?", Isn't it about time that you actually came clean with yourself in regard to who you really are?"
That interview really got to me, and the effect of it (compounded with being ostricised from the group after that) stayed with me for many years, until very recently actually. When I listened to my head, I knew that all that stuff was crap. I'd tell myself "Well, what am I supposed to do, how can I take it back?", and stuff like "To put me 'back there' could serve no purpose but to cave me in and make me submit". But then in my heart I still felt things like "How could I have stooped so low?", "What is innately wrong with me?", "Do I have the right to pretend I am someone who I am not?".
This whole area was fucking with my head for the ten years after those interviews (when I went off lines and when I wouldn’t let myself look at it), and it was still to some degree after I posted about it. That second interview especially, was just mean! I see that clearly now, and more clearly than what I have done this past year - It’s like now I don't just know it in an analytical sense, but I also 'feel' it in the heart sense. It's taken me this long to get to this point.
In recent months, the CofS (with their smear campaigning) have helped me in this regard. Hearing about and being queried about my time as a "smacked out hooker", was "stinging" (people have been briefed on 'who' I am and what I am 'really' am - not!). This action of theirs, has helped me see things more clearly (as opposed to just knowing the theory of it), in relation to that chapter in my past as well as in relation to the tactics used by the CofS in an effort to dominate and/or intimidate me.
Looking at it today, they got me with it eleven years ago, and it contributed to ‘putting me under’. Six months ago they tried to get me with it again by spreading it around. Clearly though, they can't get me with it now. I no longer feel like a piece of shit about it all – If I did, I couldn’t be posting about it like I am today. It's not great, I‘m not proud of it, I haven't liked it being spread around and admittedly it's pissed me off, but it's no longer introverting me and if anything (as usual) it has given me even more motivation to get the truth out about the CofS.
Having the emotional freedom now and a recently restored ‘self esteem’, has allowed me to divulge what really went down in that second interview, and give a better picture of how malicious their intent was and how insidious their actions were. It feels good to tell it how it was, and from an objective perspective where I can now see what actually was and is, as opposed to a subjective one (when I first posted about it) where I was still buying into what they wanted me to believe about myself.
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
Well done on completing this write-up, Carmel. You're a brave girl and we love you for it.
The treatment you received in this episode is the most odious example of reverse auditing I've ever heard of. Shane will one day hang his head in shame over this disgusting misuse of the tech.
The behaviour of that particularly demented RTC MAA is a perfect example of what Miscavige and his ilk would have liked us all to become, well maybe not ALL of us, there would have to be somebody left for them to humiliate and degrade in order to satisfy their own sadistic control-mania.
The treatment you received in this episode is the most odious example of reverse auditing I've ever heard of. Shane will one day hang his head in shame over this disgusting misuse of the tech.
The behaviour of that particularly demented RTC MAA is a perfect example of what Miscavige and his ilk would have liked us all to become, well maybe not ALL of us, there would have to be somebody left for them to humiliate and degrade in order to satisfy their own sadistic control-mania.
sallydannce
Gold Meritorious Patron
Bless you Carmel. With everything I've got I am pouring out love for you.
You are a magnificent woman!
I am so glad I have left this cruel group which calls itself a "church" and claims to be about friendliness and hope. How could I live with myself knowing crap like this was going on...I could not.
The way the "church" of scientology treats people is utterly appalling!!!!!
Carmel, you stand in the sunshine! So damn beautifully!
You are a magnificent woman!
I am so glad I have left this cruel group which calls itself a "church" and claims to be about friendliness and hope. How could I live with myself knowing crap like this was going on...I could not.
The way the "church" of scientology treats people is utterly appalling!!!!!
Carmel, you stand in the sunshine! So damn beautifully!
EP - Ethics Particle
Gold Meritorious Patron
Div6
Crusader
Thank you for telling your truth. That really is all that should be expected.
They are "using: Scn suppressively. This is a perfect example of what I mean when I say "the S.O. is a suppressive group." I ran across this LRH definition of "Musical Chairs" the other day.
"Musical Chairs - 6. musical chairs in life is the mechanism below ARC breaks in Grade III! To unstabilise gives ARC breaks! Whole staff can be put into a
sad effect! This is the mechanism governments use. It's the basic tool of the socialist. If he can just unstabilise everyone he can
kill them with degrade. It's a basic tool of the insane to maintain their own stability by unstabilising everyone else."
You must be one pretty big person for them to spend so much effort in introverting you.
When I hear things like this, I just want to go into Shaman mode and recover every lost fragment of your soul from this holding cell called the Physical Universe to the point where your love and power is so overwhelmingly present that those that tried to hurt cower in shame and spend their eternities trying to hide from the hideous thing they have allowed themselves to become.
Peace out.
They are "using: Scn suppressively. This is a perfect example of what I mean when I say "the S.O. is a suppressive group." I ran across this LRH definition of "Musical Chairs" the other day.
"Musical Chairs - 6. musical chairs in life is the mechanism below ARC breaks in Grade III! To unstabilise gives ARC breaks! Whole staff can be put into a
sad effect! This is the mechanism governments use. It's the basic tool of the socialist. If he can just unstabilise everyone he can
kill them with degrade. It's a basic tool of the insane to maintain their own stability by unstabilising everyone else."
You must be one pretty big person for them to spend so much effort in introverting you.
When I hear things like this, I just want to go into Shaman mode and recover every lost fragment of your soul from this holding cell called the Physical Universe to the point where your love and power is so overwhelmingly present that those that tried to hurt cower in shame and spend their eternities trying to hide from the hideous thing they have allowed themselves to become.
Peace out.
Dark Phoenix
Patron Meritorious
These things you keep
You'd better throw them away
You wanna turn your back
On your soulless days
Once you were tethered
And now you are free
Once you were tethered
Well now you are free
That was the river
This is the sea!
Now if you're feelin' weary
If you've been alone too long
Maybe you've been suffering from
A few too many
Plans that have gone wrong
And you're trying to remember
How fine your life used to be
Running around banging your drum
Like it's 1973
Well that was the river
This is the sea!
Wooo!
Now you say you've got trouble
You say you've got pain
You say've got nothing left to believe in
Nothing to hold on to
Nothing to trust
Nothing but chains
You're scouring your conscience
Raking through your memories
Scouring your conscience
Raking through your memories
But that was the river
This is the sea yeah!
Now i can see you wavering
As you try to decide
You've got a war in your head
And it's tearing you up inside
You're trying to make sense
Of something that you just can't see
Trying to make sense now
And you know you once held the key
But that was the river
And this is the sea!
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah!
Now i hear there's a train
It's coming on down the line
It's yours if you hurry
You've got still enough time
And you don't need no ticket
And you don't pay no fee
No you don't need no ticket
You don't pay no fee
Because that was the river
And this is the sea!
Behold the sea!
'This is the sea' by The Waterboys
You'd better throw them away
You wanna turn your back
On your soulless days
Once you were tethered
And now you are free
Once you were tethered
Well now you are free
That was the river
This is the sea!
Now if you're feelin' weary
If you've been alone too long
Maybe you've been suffering from
A few too many
Plans that have gone wrong
And you're trying to remember
How fine your life used to be
Running around banging your drum
Like it's 1973
Well that was the river
This is the sea!
Wooo!
Now you say you've got trouble
You say you've got pain
You say've got nothing left to believe in
Nothing to hold on to
Nothing to trust
Nothing but chains
You're scouring your conscience
Raking through your memories
Scouring your conscience
Raking through your memories
But that was the river
This is the sea yeah!
Now i can see you wavering
As you try to decide
You've got a war in your head
And it's tearing you up inside
You're trying to make sense
Of something that you just can't see
Trying to make sense now
And you know you once held the key
But that was the river
And this is the sea!
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah!
Now i hear there's a train
It's coming on down the line
It's yours if you hurry
You've got still enough time
And you don't need no ticket
And you don't pay no fee
No you don't need no ticket
You don't pay no fee
Because that was the river
And this is the sea!
Behold the sea!
'This is the sea' by The Waterboys
Last edited by a moderator:
Royal Prince Xenu
Trust the Psi Corps.
Eat the pie and be rid of what it represents once and for all!!! I'll help if there's too much of it.
RogerB
Crusader
The Truth of You
Lady C,
Regarding your post last night headed,
I concur with Panda,
It is wonderful to see you recovering the truth of you, the real you!
One is not what one has "done," dones are often in error, actions under duress or based on wrong answers.
One is also not what others might attempt to create one as being . . . such attempts usually being only efforts to "handle" another by the use of force in an effort to control, dominate and subjugate.
You are what you create yourself to be, and if you are wise it will be a wondrous creation
RogerB
Lady C,
Regarding your post last night headed,
Carmel said:
I concur with Panda,
Panda Termint said:
It is wonderful to see you recovering the truth of you, the real you!
One is not what one has "done," dones are often in error, actions under duress or based on wrong answers.
One is also not what others might attempt to create one as being . . . such attempts usually being only efforts to "handle" another by the use of force in an effort to control, dominate and subjugate.
You are what you create yourself to be, and if you are wise it will be a wondrous creation
RogerB
Blue Spirit
Silver Meritorious Patron
FORGIVENESS
Carmel, you have touched my heart with your last post.
I think I speak for most of those here on this board when
we say you are forgiven. Isn't that the way the tech was
supposed to have worked ? It is a rare person who hasn't
done some sexual overt they are not proud of. SO WHAT ?
PLEASE FORGIVE YOURSELF FULLY.
I've gotten to know you to a good degree from your posts,
and I agree with Panda Termint, Div 6, RogerB and others
above who validate you as a being.
Your beauty as a spirit, strength, power, and care for others
has well communicated in your posts and in my consideration
you are a VERY Special being and should be quite proud of
what you have survived.
The insane tone is set from the top and is pure Nazi all the way.
I have to admit I find myself fantasizing that you would have
thrown the cans at him and then jumped over the meter shield
and beat the living hell out of him. That is what he deserved !!!
My love goes out to you. Thanks for hanging in there to
the point that you could give back to others some more.
The best to you and your family.
Carmel, you have touched my heart with your last post.
I think I speak for most of those here on this board when
we say you are forgiven. Isn't that the way the tech was
supposed to have worked ? It is a rare person who hasn't
done some sexual overt they are not proud of. SO WHAT ?
PLEASE FORGIVE YOURSELF FULLY.
I've gotten to know you to a good degree from your posts,
and I agree with Panda Termint, Div 6, RogerB and others
above who validate you as a being.
Your beauty as a spirit, strength, power, and care for others
has well communicated in your posts and in my consideration
you are a VERY Special being and should be quite proud of
what you have survived.
The insane tone is set from the top and is pure Nazi all the way.
I have to admit I find myself fantasizing that you would have
thrown the cans at him and then jumped over the meter shield
and beat the living hell out of him. That is what he deserved !!!
My love goes out to you. Thanks for hanging in there to
the point that you could give back to others some more.
The best to you and your family.
nexus100
Gold Meritorious Patron
A young woman has many friends whom she geniunely enjoys and is GETTING PAID FOR IT!!
This is bad?
When someone is on so high a horse they can't see own their shoes, maybe they don't know the shit they're in on a daliy basis. We're WADING in it, to a man.
Screw all the Hubbard crap, forward, reverse, and in between. This is where it leads, to feeling like we understand someone who is in full stride with a ten yard break while we're at the start line waitng for the gun that never goes off. What a fucking joke.
Poo to the whole Hubbard brigade.
Love ya, Carmel!
This is bad?
When someone is on so high a horse they can't see own their shoes, maybe they don't know the shit they're in on a daliy basis. We're WADING in it, to a man.
Screw all the Hubbard crap, forward, reverse, and in between. This is where it leads, to feeling like we understand someone who is in full stride with a ten yard break while we're at the start line waitng for the gun that never goes off. What a fucking joke.
Poo to the whole Hubbard brigade.
Love ya, Carmel!
Carmel
Crusader
Thanks for your responses and your love, folks.
As I said in my post, I have moved from that 'place', where I had the guilts and was beating myself up over where I ended up in '79.
Rightly or wrongly, the baggage I had over this went out of 'my world' and I wasn't carrying it anymore, after '81. It got put back there, in '98, and it slammed in way harder than what it ever 'should' have or ever did in earlier times. Now in '09, it has again gone from 'my world' and I'm not carrying all that baggage associated with it, anymore. If I was, then yesterday I couldn't have posted about it - I couldn't and didn't a month ago when I tried to, after this crap being spread around had been 'getting to me'.
Rightly or wrongly, I don't feel I need forgiveness, because I have forgiven myself, and I consider that the only real hurt that I did at that time, was to myself.
As difficult as it may seem for some to grasp, I don't regret that time of my life or at least I wouldn't be without the experience and understanding which it gave me. Yes, there were certainly aspects of the activity which were degraded and degrading, but there were also other aspects to it which were not. I will always be ashamed that I stooped that low, but I understand how and why it came about, and I'm no longer beating myself up over it, or 'making it' something that it wasn't.
Something else - Since I posted about this yesterday, I realised that yet again, in 'my world', the CofS still had something over me to an extent which I wasn't aware of. I didn't quite realise how much of a niggle this thing was creating for me, until I faced my fears about repercussions and put it out there myself. I feel like they have nothing over me now - They only have something over ya, if ya let them or if ya think that they do.
PS to GT: I gotta say, I p'ssed myself laughing at the vid you posted - spot on, Darl!
As I said in my post, I have moved from that 'place', where I had the guilts and was beating myself up over where I ended up in '79.
Rightly or wrongly, the baggage I had over this went out of 'my world' and I wasn't carrying it anymore, after '81. It got put back there, in '98, and it slammed in way harder than what it ever 'should' have or ever did in earlier times. Now in '09, it has again gone from 'my world' and I'm not carrying all that baggage associated with it, anymore. If I was, then yesterday I couldn't have posted about it - I couldn't and didn't a month ago when I tried to, after this crap being spread around had been 'getting to me'.
Rightly or wrongly, I don't feel I need forgiveness, because I have forgiven myself, and I consider that the only real hurt that I did at that time, was to myself.
As difficult as it may seem for some to grasp, I don't regret that time of my life or at least I wouldn't be without the experience and understanding which it gave me. Yes, there were certainly aspects of the activity which were degraded and degrading, but there were also other aspects to it which were not. I will always be ashamed that I stooped that low, but I understand how and why it came about, and I'm no longer beating myself up over it, or 'making it' something that it wasn't.
Something else - Since I posted about this yesterday, I realised that yet again, in 'my world', the CofS still had something over me to an extent which I wasn't aware of. I didn't quite realise how much of a niggle this thing was creating for me, until I faced my fears about repercussions and put it out there myself. I feel like they have nothing over me now - They only have something over ya, if ya let them or if ya think that they do.
PS to GT: I gotta say, I p'ssed myself laughing at the vid you posted - spot on, Darl!
Yeah, the "INAY" did mean that what came up in session could be actionable in ethics, but it was still supposed to be "confidential" and still under the priest penitent privileged trusted agreement. The difference with INAY sessions was that one could be sent to ethics for something that came up, and being sent to ethics was supposed to be for the benefit of the pc (or at least that is what the advice was on it).
Per the Church, this priest penitent thing cut both ways - Whether in session or an INAY session, the auditor, the C/S, and/or "church" staff couldn't be forced to divulge confidential information, but nor were they "permitted" to divulge it to others.
For the record, my 'pc' info that has been divulged to others (in it's twisted form), came up in auditing (like HRD) - It didn't come from info I gave in an auditing confessional, nor an INAY sec check.
The info from my episode in Melbourne in '78 (which was twisted to make me out as a crim), could have only been obtained from records of an auditing session. There's other pc folder info though, which wasn't just simply used to smear my reputation. It was data originally from my pc folder, which was brought up in an INAY interrogation type interview as an 'aid' in showing me what a 'schmuck' I was. In recent times that information has also been used to discredit me, and maybe also as a means to intimidate me into silence.
A bit of history - At the end of '78, my partner had broken off our relationship. I was a mess. I left PNG, went back to NZ for a few weeks, and decided to go to Western Australia hoping for a new start. I actually wanted to just go to bed and stay there, and never get up, because there seemed nothing to get up for anymore, but I didn't allow myself to do that - I kind of forced myself to move on, as ya do.
I went to Perth (in WA), with the intent of picking myself up. It didn't go so well. I got pub work, and art modelling work, and I was living with a bunch of Sannyasins (Orange people - followers of “the Bhagwan” - Shree Rajneesh). Their philosophy was pretty wild - In a nutshell, it was "if ya feel like it, do it and/or experience it". In a pretty short space of time, they were putting pressure on me to take Sannyass (like join them/commit). I didn't and wouldn't, but I went to one of their "encounter group weekends". It was a disaster. I was objecting to something they were putting a girl through, and next thing they were trying to put me through it too. I let loose and I ended up being ostracised by the entire group and my housemates, and by the time I got home all my gear had been thrown in the front yard - They'd kicked me out of the house.
I went into a whole new slump over this. I really didn't care whether I lived or died at that point. Since a very young age (and while I was still at school), I was part of the "alternative scene" and street drugs were the norm. I hated needles and knew heroin was addictive, so I had previously steered clear of it. To cut a long story short, after this episode, I moved into a house with users, and I ended up getting hooked on smack before I knew it.
I had to ‘support’ my habit. I was making good money as a barmaid and an art model, but it wasn't enough. I had a friend who was an 'escort girl' - Generally, you'd go out to dinner with businessmen from out of town, for a fee that the agency would give you some of, then you were free to do 'whatever' for a fee you could pocket yourself. You could also choose to decline on going further if you so wished.
My friend had told her boss at the agency about me, and one afternoon, she rang asking if I could work. I wasn't a looker, but I could mock myself up, and I had the gift of the gab. I was scared shitless, but I needed the dosh, and my friend said that I didn't have to go to bed with the guy if I didn't want to.
I ended up with a few regular clients from interstate, who would be in town once or twice a fortnight. Putting the "sex" aside, I enjoyed their company, and they enjoyed mine. Three of them became pretty good friends, and one of them flew me to Melbourne for a week to accompany him there while he was there on business. One of them, I still have the odd contact with, to this day. I'm not saying it was all good by any means, but nor was it the worst thing in the world. As I look at it today, I am actually more ashamed of supporting the CofS and paying US$20,000 to the IAS, than I am of being a 'prostitute' at that time.
Besides that, I didn't stay in that scene long. With the help of a couple of Tibetan Buddhists who took me down to Margaret River and got me through withdrawals, and then six months later moving to Sydney and joining staff, I never went back there. I WAS in the pits, but I had stepped up, and gotten out of them. If anything, I was proud and happy about where I was now, compared to where I was before. I wasn't carrying much "shame blame and regret", because I considered that now I had a life, was going forward, was helping myself and helping others. I also considered that the only person I had hurt was myself, but now that I wasn't hurting, that whole scene was the past, and was dead and gone.
It wasn't such a biggie, but there were some things about it that were addressed in auditing. It came up in the HRD, and some stuff that I wasn’t particularly aware of came to view and was dealt with. This chapter of my life didn’t come up in auditing after that. It never came up in my confessionals, nor my INAY sec checks. If I'd had a "1st dynamic" confessional, it probably would have, but I never had one of them.
It never came up again until my second "INAY interview" that I described in post #16 on this thread. After me not "submitting" in the first "interview" they clearly wanted to find something which I would submit to, and they did by going through my pc folder. The one thing that could have been found to plough me in, they found and used to do so, and then tried to use as a subject of present time "out-ethics" nearly 20 years after the fact.
I had had intensives of sec checks and months of ethics handlings (just prior to these ‘interviews’), but these actions hadn't 'exposed my crimes', which the RTC MAA (Ty Webb) had decided I had. I had heard the RTC MAA rip sh't out of Shane my "sec checker come interrogator" the night before, for not getting my crimes. He said stuff like "That CI defiant piece of crap in there needs to confront her crimes, and if you weren't such a CI piece of crap you would be getting her to do that”. It's like they just had to find something on me, then rub my face in it so I could see how bad I was.
I look at it today, and think how bloody bizarre. I didn't really think that when I wrote up and posted what occurred, back in September last year. Back then I was still sort of feeling like I had half pie deserved it - My head wasn't saying that, but back then my heart still was. Feral had asked me why I didn't go into detail in that post I wrote about that interview. Well, at the time I wrote it, I couldn't. I was still feeling very degraded about the whole scene and that chapter in my life, and to a large degree I was still 'stuck in' the mindset about it, which I had 'taken on' as a result of that interview and as a result of everything else that had occurred at the time.
That second interview went on for hours. At that point in my life (at 38 years old), there was probably only this one area that anybody could have picked out and used that would have made me feel degraded, because it was something in my life which I was ashamed of (and something which I still am ashamed of to some degree). They found it, and put my face into it, for hours. If Shane hadn’t been an old “trusted” friend, then I may not have put myself in his hands like I did, and gone so effect of it all like I did, but whichever way ya look at it, it was introverting stuff. Whether one has a belief in the auditing tech or not, how on earth could such an action be of benefit to anyone? It couldn't be - It was done in an effort to squash, and it did just that.
Shane was asking for every little itty bitty explicit detail of the sexual encounters I had with my 'clients'. As I had said when I first described it, the RTC MAA, his Mission I/C and Vicki Hannah the CO OSA were watching on. The RTC MAA sometimes got Shane to go back to something we had left, for even more detail.
Shane wasn't just asking and acknowledging. He was commenting with disgust at first, then with what seemed like disdain at what I was "coughing up". It was kind of like "No wonder you are such a fucked unit, and no wonder we have had so much trouble with you". He made comments like "oh God", "yuck", "how could you?", "I'm not surprised that you have been "no case gain", "You've been living a lie, Carmel". "You've done a good job of sucking us all in, Carmel. I wish I had your PR skills". And, after everything seemed exhausted, he aked me questions like "And you thought you were fit to be a mother?", "How long did you think you would last without facing up to this and making up the damage?", "Isn't it about time you came clean in regard to who you actually are?", Isn't it about time that you actually came clean with yourself in regard to who you really are?"
That interview really got to me, and the effect of it (compounded with being ostricised from the group after that) stayed with me for many years, until very recently actually. When I listened to my head, I knew that all that stuff was crap. I'd tell myself "Well, what am I supposed to do, how can I take it back?", and stuff like "To put me 'back there' could serve no purpose but to cave me in and make me submit". But then in my heart I still felt things like "How could I have stooped so low?", "What is innately wrong with me?", "Do I have the right to pretend I am someone who I am not?".
This whole area was fucking with my head for the ten years after those interviews (when I went off lines and when I wouldn’t let myself look at it), and it was still to some degree after I posted about it. That second interview especially, was just mean! I see that clearly now, and more clearly than what I have done this past year - It’s like now I don't just know it in an analytical sense, but I also 'feel' it in the heart sense. It's taken me this long to get to this point.
In recent months, the CofS (with their smear campaigning) have helped me in this regard. Hearing about and being queried about my time as a "smacked out hooker", was "stinging" (people have been briefed on 'who' I am and what I am 'really' am - not!). This action of theirs, has helped me see things more clearly (as opposed to just knowing the theory of it), in relation to that chapter in my past as well as in relation to the tactics used by the CofS in an effort to dominate and/or intimidate me.
Looking at it today, they got me with it eleven years ago, and it contributed to ‘putting me under’. Six months ago they tried to get me with it again by spreading it around. Clearly though, they can't get me with it now. I no longer feel like a piece of shit about it all – If I did, I couldn’t be posting about it like I am today. It's not great, I‘m not proud of it, I haven't liked it being spread around and admittedly it's pissed me off, but it's no longer introverting me and if anything (as usual) it has given me even more motivation to get the truth out about the CofS.
Having the emotional freedom now and a recently restored ‘self esteem’, has allowed me to divulge what really went down in that second interview, and give a better picture of how malicious their intent was and how insidious their actions were. It feels good to tell it how it was, and from an objective perspective where I can now see what actually was and is, as opposed to a subjective one (when I first posted about it) where I was still buying into what they wanted me to believe about myself.
Another example of Scientology/OSA foot bullet.
Opter
Feral
Rogue male
Carmy,
You sure stood up to a hiding from 'the most ethical group on the planet', you're one tough girl and I love you for it.
RogerB seems to see their efforts in the same light as I do, that is; trying to force and trick you into identifying your self with your past actions.
This is diametrically opposed to the 'advertised' intention of auditing and 'ethics'. It's also categorically the most vicious example of reversed auditing that I've ever heard of.
OSA!: You need to own up to this and your part in it , instead of inventing lies about us to cover your crimes. Seriously.
You sure stood up to a hiding from 'the most ethical group on the planet', you're one tough girl and I love you for it.
RogerB seems to see their efforts in the same light as I do, that is; trying to force and trick you into identifying your self with your past actions.
This is diametrically opposed to the 'advertised' intention of auditing and 'ethics'. It's also categorically the most vicious example of reversed auditing that I've ever heard of.
OSA!: You need to own up to this and your part in it , instead of inventing lies about us to cover your crimes. Seriously.
HCObringOrder?
Silver Meritorious Patron
I find it interesting how out-tech the Scientology management will go to produce the cover up of their bullet ridden feet.
It makes me wonder how many other lies are in their PC folders.
Meanwhile, a nice human woman gets raked over the coals.
That don't sound like improvement to the human condition to me. No Ma'am!
Sounds more like OSA is the Scientology Inquisition, like the G.O. was.
It makes me wonder how many other lies are in their PC folders.
Meanwhile, a nice human woman gets raked over the coals.
That don't sound like improvement to the human condition to me. No Ma'am!
Sounds more like OSA is the Scientology Inquisition, like the G.O. was.
Terril park
Sponsor
Here's the thing Carmel. Shane Brockhurst et al will experience more suffering over these matters than you have. For them it will be part of a theraputic path back to humanity. Karma's a bitch!
Their footbullet efforts have led to many scientologists in Oz leaving COS.
Good on ya.
They are probably experiencing suffering now, and with luck for them they may come to ESMB and have a quicker route back to humanity. They may take a longer route. Like lifetimes.
Life is lived by many people in many ways. I once had a "Crack whore" as a girlfriend briefly . She was very sweet, but lost.
However for an auditor to give reverse auditing to the likes of you, or for that matter anyone, is a serious crime against humanity.
You have a phone no, an e-mail address, or a snail mail address for Shane Brockhurst I'm very willing to handle him.
Knight in shining armour valence, off.
