Taking people at face value

[Feral]

Recently a newbie came on to this board with a very heart wrenching story about a family being divided by Scientologies aggressive and coercive 'dissemination' techniques.

Several people jumped on the 'outpoints' in the story and more or lesss accused the person of being phony and although it wasn't said 'OSA'. The thread soon became about who believed the person and who didn't.

I'm going to point out a couple of things here and try to make some sort of 'custom' here; an 'ESMB custom' if we all can 'sort of' agree.

Put yourself in their shoes; If you were as distressed as they seemed can you imagine the additional strain of basically being told you're a liar?


Not all out pointy newbies are OSA or phonies, there can be many reasons for out points in a poster when they first come onto the board, especially if they are distressed.

I would rather look like a fool getting sucked into an OSA trap than upset and estrange a single person in dire need. You can help them while still protecting yourself if in doubt but accusing them of being a plant etc. is pretty 'off'.

So can we have a 'custom' here at ESMB that we go easy on the newbies, especially if they are dealing with an awful set of circumstances?

Whatcha think you blokes?

 

[klidov]

I believe that people who come here should be believed, unless something simply doesn't ring true. But then, the question should be asked, "...is it not ringing true as a matter of how the events were perceived...?

When people come here, we do not know who is on the other side of the keyboard. But I agree, interrogating a newbie is probably not what they need.

Their entire foundation has crumbled under them. Friends become enemies, and some have lost everything.

 

[Alan]

Should be policy! Feral

 

[nexus100]

Agreed.

 

[klidov]

I will also point out, when I am under extreme stress, my short-term memory can be shot-to-shit (not a medical term, but it will do ).

Awaking after a cult experience, is just that. An awakening. Screw the details, these people need help.

 

[Carmel]

All good in my books Feral, agreed - except for where you said "watcha think blokes?" (Us girls aren't blokes, and I'm wondering if ya meant to exclude us and our opinions )

 

[Alanzo]

Is ESMB really a Scientology Crisis Centre?

I mean, is it really possible for ESMB to function as that? Do our "counselors" all have the same viewpoint, apply the same techniques, and approach people the way we all "agree" they should?

If I came to an Internet message board for help with something that was actually destroying my life - right in present time - would I really think they were going to handle it for me?

That thread was a mass of confusion with EVERYONE TRYING THEIR BEST to help. And it ended up going in every direction.

I agree with taking people at face value for a while.

But I don't think we can set rules for how people should post.

And by that I mean that we are not all employees of a Scientology Crisis Centre

 

[Panda Termint]

<...snip>
So can we have a 'custom' here at ESMB that we go easy on the newbies, especially if they are dealing with an awful set of circumstances?

Whatcha think you blokes?

Yes, Feral, I think it would be a very good custom.

We may, on occassion, get taken for a ride but even that does no real harm in the scheme of things.

I have adopted this ESMB custom.

 

[Thrak]

I agree too. I think of telling my own story to relatives who know nothing of scn. I can imagine their reactions of "you paid how much for what?" I know you have to be cautious but probably many here have unbelievable stories. So maybe it's best that if have doubts maybe ask for a clarification but let it go. This whole thing reminds me of a conversation with a course sup at AO. She was kind of describing an SO meeting where there was a down stat and said "who's the SP?" as if somebody at this meeting were posing that question to the staff members looking for the source of the down stat. I thought "how fucked up is that?". These people dedicate their lives to this shit working millions of hours and are constantly scrutinized for being potential SPs? Anyway that witch hunt type stuff is a real trademark of the church. Who wants to be like them?

 

[Been Done Had]

I couldn't agree more, Feral.

I know my incoherence level is directly proportional to the stress I am under.

The Church scares me shitless. And I was nervous as a cat posting here initially. Now add that to the agony and anxiety of a major PTP. And then to have someone parse your statements and reject them would be just miserable.

It's no skin off my back if I "fall for a trap." The worst case scenario is a newbie isn't genuine and I cast my free advice before some cruel soul laughing before their keyboard.

The trolls, evildoers and bitter ones tend to out themselves very, very quickly.

I love this board. And that there can be such an island of decency amidst a subject that is so polarizing.

So let's default to kindness and acceptance.

BDH

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Agreed. For one thing, people aren't always consistent. Sometimes individuals describing events- even when trying really hard to be accurate-have holes or inconsistencies in their stories. This doesn't mean that those are shore stories every time, either. Sometimes people's actions don't make sense or they don't recall every little piece of everything that happened. Ask any trial attorney or DA or Public Defender and they'll confirm this.

My point is that not ever inconsistency or description of illogical or inconsistent actions constitutes an op or a made up story. Life is messy, people aren't always consistent.

 

[auntpat]

auntpat

I agree feral. Being rather a newbie myself and not having a real horrific story to tell I would have been devasted if I had been put in "doubt" by you all.
I have been reading many stories here and in the Kids site and I just thank God that I got out when I did. My husband and I thought the SO was a joke from the beginning and when a mission came to our org strutting around in their uniforms yelling orders, we knew they were. They left our org with nothing accomplished except to leave one of our staff pregnant.
I know many of you are not Christians, but I am, and am on very good terms with Mother and Father God, and Jesus. They have protected me from many traps and I feel rescuing me from scn one one of them.

 

[klidov]

I agree feral. Being rather a newbie myself and not having a real horrific story to tell I would have been devasted if I had been put in "doubt" by you all.
I have been reading many stories here and in the Kids site and I just thank God that I got out when I did. My husband and I thought the SO was a joke from the beginning and when a mission came to our org strutting around in their uniforms yelling orders, we knew they were. They left our org with nothing accomplished except to leave one of our staff pregnant.
I know many of you are not Christians, but I am, and am on very good terms with Mother and Father God, and Jesus. They have protected me from many traps and I feel rescuing me from scn one one of them.

I can understand that AuntPat.

btw-welcome to ESMB

 

[scooter]

to ESMB, Aunt Pat.

And, Feral, I agree with you but reserve the right to dump on Secret Santas OK?

 

[klidov]

And, Feral, I agree with you but reserve the right to dump on Secret Santas OK?

DUMP ON SECRET SANTAS??!?

 

[Rae]

I agree also Feral. It was very caring of you to start this thread.

There have been posters that have told some wild unbelievable stories..but I just don't respond to those as it seems like a senseless endeavor and waste of time unless it's too funny to pass up commenting on!

Rae

 

[byte301]

I agree feral.

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

My bad, sorry.....agreed.

 

[Bone]

IAnyway that witch hunt type stuff is a real trademark of the church. Who wants to be like them?

This!

Agreed, Feral.

 

[Megalomaniac]

I am the first one on that thread to say I didn't believe her. My post title was "Hi OSA". What I observed was that others were believing the story and getting very angry about it. I think there is a danger in that, too. If someone spreads this story further as if it's a fact, and then it turns out to be a hoax, then it damages the credibility of that person and this site in a way. I thought I was taking it easy on the newbie. I stated fairly directly my disbelief and why I didn't believe. I also proposed an idea for her to prove her identity to a trusted third party (such as the Red Cross) through which I would be willing to help (i.e., send money) and I would not need to know any more about her identity. If she was truly desperate for cash, I think that would be a welcome offer. I also PM'd her about this. She did not take me up on the offer. The posts made by ScaredStiff are peculiar in their lack of detail and contradictions and seem very artificial to me. I have reason to not trust.

I think I tried to be generous and helpful, but at the same time honest. I'm not sure how I'd do this better next time.

When I first posted, I was accused of being OSA. Even Nexus100 hinted in that same thread that I might be OSA. I don't mind. I can tell he means well. Until you know a person well, you don't know that person. It's ok to say that you don't trust a new person.

When I pick up hitch hikers, I make sure my wallet is in my left pocket and my seatbelt is fastened in case I have to deliberately crash the car in self defense. But I still pick them up.

Mac