trepidatious

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

Gotta thank you for a damned good peek into the past Cowboy. I am not sure the lens could be much more clearly focused.

I offer my gratitude for your gift of time and perspective.

May you forever be blessed.

 

[Uncult]

Thanks for the question. What did I get from Ron? An insight into, in my mind, the nature of religions and deification of normal people. What people do to fill the "God sized hole" that some religions teach, perhaps correctly, that we all have. How crazy it was that numerous people could all see the same thing, draw the same conclusion, but refuse to voice it to one another. After all, they didn't want to be the odd man out. Everyone else says it... so it must be true.

I spent thousands of hours with him, most of them alone. I saw him strong and scathing, and as frail as a cat, needing help getting out of bed and going to the restroom. I saw him so weak he couldn't speak above a whisper, forced to use a bed pan, unable to remember every day details about conversations or things he had written only weeks earlier. I saw the myth people imagined, contrasted with the reality of the aging, largely demented man I saw almost daily.

I also saw moments of insight. Brilliance. I learned how to communicate. How to shoulder responsibility greater than that most people had at my age. My vocabulary grew. I learned how to live in an adult world, as a teenager. I learned from others the dedication that normal people could have, the sacrifices that they could make, in their desire to make the world a better place. I learned of all the human characteristics, those good, and those not, played out in the soap opera of his life.

I learned apologetics, how to foster belief, skirting lying, but not giving all the truth to those who followed his every word. How to twist facts to avoid uncomfortable truths.

I learned who was not the creator of Scn, but of a man who had learned how to delegate, wield a whip, place the carrot in front of people (OT), and the stick of expulsion, or eternal damnation.

I learned how myths were created, which gave me a tremendous insight to human nature and the rendition of historic events and what might have actually been the truth of those historic events.

I saw selflessness, a true inspiration to me, of those around him.

I saw children with adult like determination, who gladly donated their childhood. And I saw other children crying, shells of what a child should be, craving attention from their parents who couldn't be with them because they were busy trying to save the world.

I felt comradry. The bliss of being in a unit striving to make a difference. While blinded for years that the goal didn't mesh with the reality. Is this, I wondered, how the followers of Hitler might have been blinded to, or justify the heinous actions of their group? How could children disconnect from their parents who had raised them? How could a husband watch a wife in rags in the RPF? Tolerate weekly time with their children measured in minutes?

I learned the definition of the blind following the blind.

I understood how it was that people, and whole groups, could use the end to justify the means, whatever harm might be caused by the means.

I learned what it was to be human. To live life in the now.

Now, as I've spoken outside of this forum to a few who were in the trenches with me, I feel like a survivor of Aushwitz, or one of the few surviving soldiers of an epic battle, knowing, as we look at one another, that there is truly no way to communicate to those who were not there exactly what we experienced.

And most of all, I learned to hold up every philosophy, every tenet, politics, every conclusion, to the cold, clear light of unbiased reason, rather than blind faith.

I saw the aged die, for lack of medical care. The elite of Scn with teeth rotting in their mouths for lack of money to receive dental care. I saw people gap toothed but smiling, proud of yanking their own teeth.

I saw the frailty of those who had dedicated their lives to a false dream reach the realization that the dream was false, but they could not extricate themselves, for they had nothing. No social security. No resume. No health insurance. Lives that were largely unimaginable to the vast majority of people outside the church.

I saw modern slavery.

It is difficult to try to explain the emotions that I still experience as I recall these things.

Eloquence and truth.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Thanks. I believe that, after this weekend, I'll be fading away again. But maybe, some day, I'll check in again.

Uh huh..........................


(half-ack, staring silently at computer screen inviting cyber itsa, hopefully at some point)

 

[jenni with an eye]

Thanks for the question. What did I get from Ron? An insight into, in my mind, the nature of religions and deification of normal people. What people do to fill the "God sized hole" that some religions teach, perhaps correctly, that we all have. How crazy it was that numerous people could all see the same thing, draw the same conclusion, but refuse to voice it to one another. After all, they didn't want to be the odd man out. Everyone else says it... so it must be true.

I spent thousands of hours with him, most of them alone. I saw him strong and scathing, and as frail as a cat, needing help getting out of bed and going to the restroom. I saw him so weak he couldn't speak above a whisper, forced to use a bed pan, unable to remember every day details about conversations or things he had written only weeks earlier. I saw the myth people imagined, contrasted with the reality of the aging, largely demented man I saw almost daily.

I also saw moments of insight. Brilliance. I learned how to communicate. How to shoulder responsibility greater than that most people had at my age. My vocabulary grew. I learned how to live in an adult world, as a teenager. I learned from others the dedication that normal people could have, the sacrifices that they could make, in their desire to make the world a better place. I learned of all the human characteristics, those good, and those not, played out in the soap opera of his life.

I learned apologetics, how to foster belief, skirting lying, but not giving all the truth to those who followed his every word. How to twist facts to avoid uncomfortable truths.

I learned who was not the creator of Scn, but of a man who had learned how to delegate, wield a whip, place the carrot in front of people (OT), and the stick of expulsion, or eternal damnation.

I learned how myths were created, which gave me a tremendous insight to human nature and the rendition of historic events and what might have actually been the truth of those historic events.

I saw selflessness, a true inspiration to me, of those around him.

I saw children with adult like determination, who gladly donated their childhood. And I saw other children crying, shells of what a child should be, craving attention from their parents who couldn't be with them because they were busy trying to save the world.

I felt comradry. The bliss of being in a unit striving to make a difference. While blinded for years that the goal didn't mesh with the reality. Is this, I wondered, how the followers of Hitler might have been blinded to, or justify the heinous actions of their group? How could children disconnect from their parents who had raised them? How could a husband watch a wife in rags in the RPF? Tolerate weekly time with their children measured in minutes?

I learned the definition of the blind following the blind.

I understood how it was that people, and whole groups, could use the end to justify the means, whatever harm might be caused by the means.

I learned what it was to be human. To live life in the now.

Now, as I've spoken outside of this forum to a few who were in the trenches with me, I feel like a survivor of Aushwitz, or one of the few surviving soldiers of an epic battle, knowing, as we look at one another, that there is truly no way to communicate to those who were not there exactly what we experienced.

And most of all, I learned to hold up every philosophy, every tenet, polictics, every conclusion, to the cold, clear light of unbiased reason, rather than blind faith.

I saw the aged die, for lack of medical care. The elite of Scn with teeth rotting in their mouths for lack of money to receive dental care. I saw people gap toothed but smiling, proud of yanking their own teeth.

I saw the frailty of those who had dedicated their lives to a false dream reach the realization that the dream was false, but they could not extricate themselves, for they had nothing. No social security. No resume. No health insurance. Lives that were largely unimaginable to the vast majority of people outside the church.

I saw modern slavery.

It is difficult to try to explain the emotions that I still experience as I recall these things.

Cowboy,

So beautifully written, I'm at a loss for words.

Thankyou so much for this.

 

[jenni with an eye]

Thanks. I believe that, after this weekend, I'll be fading away again. But maybe, some day, I'll check in again.

Please don't stay away to long.

I have really enjoyed everything you have written.

Thankyou

 

[Panda Termint]

Agreed!
One of the best posts ever.

 

[The Sloth]

Thanks for the question. What did I get from Ron? An insight into, in my mind, the nature of religions and deification of normal people. What people do to fill the "God sized hole" that some religions teach, perhaps correctly, that we all have. How crazy it was that numerous people could all see the same thing, draw the same conclusion, but refuse to voice it to one another. After all, they didn't want to be the odd man out. Everyone else says it... so it must be true.

I spent thousands of hours with him, most of them alone. I saw him strong and scathing, and as frail as a cat, needing help getting out of bed and going to the restroom. I saw him so weak he couldn't speak above a whisper, forced to use a bed pan, unable to remember every day details about conversations or things he had written only weeks earlier. I saw the myth people imagined, contrasted with the reality of the aging, largely demented man I saw almost daily.

I also saw moments of insight. Brilliance. I learned how to communicate. How to shoulder responsibility greater than that most people had at my age. My vocabulary grew. I learned how to live in an adult world, as a teenager. I learned from others the dedication that normal people could have, the sacrifices that they could make, in their desire to make the world a better place. I learned of all the human characteristics, those good, and those not, played out in the soap opera of his life.

I learned apologetics, how to foster belief, skirting lying, but not giving all the truth to those who followed his every word. How to twist facts to avoid uncomfortable truths.

I learned who was not the creator of Scn, but of a man who had learned how to delegate, wield a whip, place the carrot in front of people (OT), and the stick of expulsion, or eternal damnation.

I learned how myths were created, which gave me a tremendous insight to human nature and the rendition of historic events and what might have actually been the truth of those historic events.

I saw selflessness, a true inspiration to me, of those around him.

I saw children with adult like determination, who gladly donated their childhood. And I saw other children crying, shells of what a child should be, craving attention from their parents who couldn't be with them because they were busy trying to save the world.

I felt comradry. The bliss of being in a unit striving to make a difference. While blinded for years that the goal didn't mesh with the reality. Is this, I wondered, how the followers of Hitler might have been blinded to, or justify the heinous actions of their group? How could children disconnect from their parents who had raised them? How could a husband watch a wife in rags in the RPF? Tolerate weekly time with their children measured in minutes?

I learned the definition of the blind following the blind.

I understood how it was that people, and whole groups, could use the end to justify the means, whatever harm might be caused by the means.

I learned what it was to be human. To live life in the now.

Now, as I've spoken outside of this forum to a few who were in the trenches with me, I feel like a survivor of Aushwitz, or one of the few surviving soldiers of an epic battle, knowing, as we look at one another, that there is truly no way to communicate to those who were not there exactly what we experienced.

And most of all, I learned to hold up every philosophy, every tenet, polictics, every conclusion, to the cold, clear light of unbiased reason, rather than blind faith.

I saw the aged die, for lack of medical care. The elite of Scn with teeth rotting in their mouths for lack of money to receive dental care. I saw people gap toothed but smiling, proud of yanking their own teeth.

I saw the frailty of those who had dedicated their lives to a false dream reach the realization that the dream was false, but they could not extricate themselves, for they had nothing. No social security. No resume. No health insurance. Lives that were largely unimaginable to the vast majority of people outside the church.

I saw modern slavery.

It is difficult to try to explain the emotions that I still experience as I recall these things.

This!


Would there be any camaraderie or dedication without a group with a mutual goal?
Is there any higher high than "overcoming obstacles towards a known goal" with a group of people? Or selfless dedication to another?

Was it worth it? (Not in the material sense, but in the life experience sense?)
Would you do it again, and if so, what would you do differently?

And again, thank you.

 

[cowboy]

This!


Would there be any camaraderie or dedication without a group with a mutual goal?
Is there any higher high than "overcoming obstacles towards a known goal" with a group of people? Or selfless dedication to another?

Was it worth it? (Not in the material sense, but in the life experience sense?)
Would you do it again, and if so, what would you do differently?

And again, thank you.

I would not be who I am without those experiences. That said, I got out at a young enough age to learn lessons, but still have the opportunity to create a fulfilling life. I am fortunate to have done so.

 

[Udarnik]

Thanks for the question. What did I get from Ron? An insight into, in my mind, the nature of religions and deification of normal people. What people do to fill the "God sized hole" that some religions teach, perhaps correctly, that we all have. How crazy it was that numerous people could all see the same thing, draw the same conclusion, but refuse to voice it to one another. After all, they didn't want to be the odd man out. Everyone else says it... so it must be true.

I spent thousands of hours with him, most of them alone. I saw him strong and scathing, and as frail as a cat, needing help getting out of bed and going to the restroom. I saw him so weak he couldn't speak above a whisper, forced to use a bed pan, unable to remember every day details about conversations or things he had written only weeks earlier. I saw the myth people imagined, contrasted with the reality of the aging, largely demented man I saw almost daily.

I also saw moments of insight. Brilliance. I learned how to communicate. How to shoulder responsibility greater than that most people had at my age. My vocabulary grew. I learned how to live in an adult world, as a teenager. I learned from others the dedication that normal people could have, the sacrifices that they could make, in their desire to make the world a better place. I learned of all the human characteristics, those good, and those not, played out in the soap opera of his life.

I learned apologetics, how to foster belief, skirting lying, but not giving all the truth to those who followed his every word. How to twist facts to avoid uncomfortable truths.

I learned who was not the creator of Scn, but of a man who had learned how to delegate, wield a whip, place the carrot in front of people (OT), and the stick of expulsion, or eternal damnation.

I learned how myths were created, which gave me a tremendous insight to human nature and the rendition of historic events and what might have actually been the truth of those historic events.

I saw selflessness, a true inspiration to me, of those around him.

I saw children with adult like determination, who gladly donated their childhood. And I saw other children crying, shells of what a child should be, craving attention from their parents who couldn't be with them because they were busy trying to save the world.

I felt comradry. The bliss of being in a unit striving to make a difference. While blinded for years that the goal didn't mesh with the reality. Is this, I wondered, how the followers of Hitler might have been blinded to, or justify the heinous actions of their group? How could children disconnect from their parents who had raised them? How could a husband watch a wife in rags in the RPF? Tolerate weekly time with their children measured in minutes?

I learned the definition of the blind following the blind.

I understood how it was that people, and whole groups, could use the end to justify the means, whatever harm might be caused by the means.

I learned what it was to be human. To live life in the now.

Now, as I've spoken outside of this forum to a few who were in the trenches with me, I feel like a survivor of Aushwitz, or one of the few surviving soldiers of an epic battle, knowing, as we look at one another, that there is truly no way to communicate to those who were not there exactly what we experienced.

And most of all, I learned to hold up every philosophy, every tenet, polictics, every conclusion, to the cold, clear light of unbiased reason, rather than blind faith.

I saw the aged die, for lack of medical care. The elite of Scn with teeth rotting in their mouths for lack of money to receive dental care. I saw people gap toothed but smiling, proud of yanking their own teeth.

I saw the frailty of those who had dedicated their lives to a false dream reach the realization that the dream was false, but they could not extricate themselves, for they had nothing. No social security. No resume. No health insurance. Lives that were largely unimaginable to the vast majority of people outside the church.

I saw modern slavery.

It is difficult to try to explain the emotions that I still experience as I recall these things.

This is why we all gather around the virtual campfire when you are here, Cowboy. Thank you.

 

[Enthetan]

YES!!!

Thanks for this, Cowboy. I think this is an important insight for the Folks here.

Although on the Apollo El Ron & Family occupied quarters that were significantly larger, all upper midships decks with large windows, much more well appointed (some air conditioned and with servants and personal attendants) than the rest of the Crew, the fact is that Hisself's personal Net Worth at that time was already multi-millions and Hisself could have afforded Villas and a very plush personal Yacht. But, a lot of dough was spent for new, custom tailored wardrobes with all the accouterments, gourmet food flown in from UK, EU and the US, etc. I've written in some detail about this on the past on ESMB.

Also, El Ron had a number of platinum, gold and silver baubles (stick pens, rings, bracelets, etc), jewels and expensive watches on board...including a 1 kilogram 24 K gold bar embossed "L. Ron Hubbard". When we moved to land in '75 El Ron's on board stash was Insurance/Customs Appraised at over over $100,000. I don't recall ever having mentioned that on ESMB before.

Face

When you're trying to hide, you don't live in a luxurious villa or yacht. More people will wonder who you are. But you CAN spend money on personal stuff that the outside world doesn't see.

In some urban neighborhoods in Europe and the US, a wealthy person may choose to live in a building whose outward-facing facade is plain, but once you go inside is very luxurious. The objective is to not advertise to criminals that here is a good place to hit.

Hubbard seems to have found it important that he be able to move around without attracting attention, and be able to exit the scene quickly if he needed to.

 

[Enthetan]

Sex?

It would have been interesting if a porn star got into Scn, and suddenly developed spectacular abilities in her area of expertise...

 

[Udarnik]

When you're trying to hide, you don't live in a luxurious villa or yacht. More people will wonder who you are. But you CAN spend money on personal stuff that the outside world doesn't see.

In some urban neighborhoods in Europe and the US, a wealthy person may choose to live in a building whose outward-facing facade is plain, but once you go inside is very luxurious. The objective is to not advertise to criminals that here is a good place to hit.

Hubbard seems to have found it important that he be able to move around without attracting attention, and be able to exit the scene quickly if he needed to.

I have a half SIL in Taiwan who is very well off. Her house is gorgeous.

But everyone in Taiwan has bars on the windows and steel doors to prevent burglaries.

Her house is in the building that houses her tea warehouse. She rents out the two units on either side to a commercial bakery (no storefront, they supply restaurants) and a butcher (same deal, no storefront, restaurant supply). If you drive in the little cul de sac, you will see all kinds of delivery trucks. Thir car is hidden among the trucks. Her front door facing the street is a plain steel door that looks just like the industrial doors on either side. But go inside and walk up the stairs, and the door to the actual apartments is a beautifully carved wooden door of ancient design.

This is not atypical for self-made business people in Taiwan who don't have family connections to the KMT to call on the police for extra security. The family connected people are as ostentatious as anyone in the States, but if you don't have clan connections, you hide your wealth in Taiwan.

 

[Udarnik]

Cowboy, one more question before you blow this popsicle stand. You say you saw moments of brilliance. I see some brilliance there in the understanding of what buttons humans have and how to push them.

But can you tell us what you mean by brilliance, and provide a few examples of such?

 

[Enthetan]

This!


Would there be any camaraderie or dedication without a group with a mutual goal?
Is there any higher high than "overcoming obstacles towards a known goal" with a group of people? Or selfless dedication to another?

Was it worth it? (Not in the material sense, but in the life experience sense?)
Would you do it again, and if so, what would you do differently?

And again, thank you.

Camaraderie. Growing up quickly from being given major responsibility at a young age. Being part of a group with a mutual goal.

I also got that from my SO days. I have a feeling, though, that I would have gotten similar effects, and better benefits, from a tour of duty in the Marine Corps.

 

[TG1]

Cowboy, your last post was pure gold. Thank you so much for all the stories you've told here.

I'm tickled that you left at such a young age and made the life you could, wanted and deserved.

Your story has a happy ending.

You did good.

TG1

 

[Rocketman2]

..

 

[In present time]

Hey, in my world we are all allowed to make "mistakes". In fact, we are encouraged to do so! No penalties, and only loving acceptance and forgiveness to those who "err".

YOU ROCK GADFLY!

 

[In present time]

Picking up the continuation of this marvelous thread, I am struck (again) by something that should be very obvious to all--but is so fractally ever-present in all parts of Scientology, large and small, that it gains an invisibility.

I am speaking of WHO Scientologists elect to follow as their omniscient and infallible leader. Really, only two people, Hubbard and Miscavige. But why would they attract so many servile subjects? What do they have in common besides being sociopaths and liars extraordinaire?

I always come back to the same conclusion.

Certainty.

It must be part of the software hard wired into humans to reflexively submit to those of unerring and adamant certitude. Such genetic programming exists in the animal kingdom when the dominant of the pack compels others to evidence a "submissive display"--on their backs, exposing their vulnerable soft belly to the alpha leader's sharp teeth.

Scientologists have their own curious form of submissive display--exposing their secrets and bank account balances.

dumb off topic comment. but i actually have to do this submission position with my kitten when i am trying to do my yoga workout. it's the only thing that backs her off, so either it works on felines also, or she just thinks i am dead and no longer any fun to torture.

 

[In present time]

It is truly a pleasure. Truly. I would like to know if there is anyone, in any way, I have made the transition easier? Perhaps someone that was uncertain and has now made their mind up? I suppose not. As I wouldn't be read or believed if someone hadn't already made the change.

your posts have made me stop hating hubbard. i went through a phase, and it was quite uncomfortable. i don't hate him anymore. i resent the hell out of him, but at least it isn't hate.
hard to believe i ever could have hated him, because i never liked him, AT ALL.

it really sucks to feel like you have finally found the truth about everything, but there is no poetry, music, art, or even rhyme and reason to it.

i should have joined the krishnas, much better fit for me and you get a tambourine.

thank-you cowboy. i couldn't believe my good fortune when i saw you were back

 

[In present time]

no. thank you! perhaps I let my emotions get the better of me.

pure poetry. proof that some beauty can be extracted from $cn. keyword being; extracted. and i am not talking about pulling ones own teeth:/