Alanzo
Bardo Tulpa
Thank you for your updated Anti-Scientology info, AryaZ.
By the way, your character is my favorite in all the world.
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By the way, your character is my favorite in all the world.
Alanzo
Bardo Tulpa
From the very beginning, she was my favorite.
TheOriginalBigBlue
Gold Meritorious Patron
It's the whole reason communists like the SDS infiltrated colleges and especially social sciences - so they could lay claim to pushing Marxism as a science. The jig is up. What percentage of college professors vote republican? I think 10 years ago it was at best 1 in 10. And of social science professors how many vote republican? Are any left? According to your social science professors if half the country are republicans then shouldn't that ratio translate into professorship percentages - unless there was some kind of bias or cult like vetting going on?
You accuse me of "projecting". To us simple folk we call it a "first impression". Sure, first impressions are often wrong but they are still important. I wasn't here when you were banned so I'm getting acquainted with you now and my impression is that your fundamental orientation is based in idealism and utopianism very much like liberal social science professors and newbie Scientologists who think they have all the answers and gravitate toward centralized authority because it is easier for a radical minority to take over and control. I would expect someone with that kind of thinking to expect Mike to sacrifice and incriminate himself for the greater good instead of being pragmatic like decompressing from the nightmare, getting a job, paying the rent and taking care of his new family without getting hammered by fair game or being sent to jail.
For those of us who had to start over after the Sea Org you have a resume that shows you worked for a cult. My Scientology gap in my work history wasn't as long as Mike's but it was still considerable and extremely difficult and cringingly embarrassing to explain. Fortunately my early employers hired me without contacting Scientology. I put them down on my resume but used innocuous names and generic descriptions. Maybe we picked up some skills that were useful and would be appreciated by an employer in the wog world but making yourself the center of court cases where you are admitting to your role in the cult's abuse which would probably get international distribution might not be your highest priority.
After you get your head straight and your living situation established and you settle on a strategy that results in something like The Aftermath, all things considered I'd say that is pretty damn good. The list of people who have accomplished anything close to that is very short and I don't think either you or I are on it.
If you don't like the first impression that you present to people then maybe you should try to be less like some social science professor who enjoys being all intellectual and difficult to understand and give the unwashed masses a direct answer to their questions instead of some dodgy acceptable truth or deflective rhetoric like "projecting" or laying claim to some moral high ground because you believe in people like Cloward and Piven.
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Cat's Squirrel
Gold Meritorious Patron
Not in my experience. Maybe it's different in the US, but most of the people I knew in Scn leaned towards the conservative, both socially and economically. I only knew two communists, or people with communist sympathies, in all my time in the FZ or the shorter time in the local org and neither of them were what I would call typical scientologists.
TheOriginalBigBlue
Gold Meritorious Patron
I first attended a seminar in a mission in a US college town in 1972. I was a staunch democrat through most of my active Scio years and attended anti-war rallies but didn't think of myself as a socialist or communist. I and most of the people I saw were hippies or pretty close. The staff were cleaned up a bit but I sure don't recall any John Bircher types. We were highly motivated to save the world from nuclear war. I was already in the Sea Org by the time the global ice age hit in 1978 but that didn't pan out and I don't recall Hubbard co-opting it like the fear of radiation. I think a lot of us didn't like a lot of the ripping off and bad juju that the hippie culture had and were ready for something new and improved and more discipline (not talking about punishment) was appealing if at least not too off-putting. The missions tended to proselytize college students who were from families that could afford college (and Scientology) and to my thinking not so much young inner city people who were more hard core. A lot of the moralizing that Hubbard spewed could appeal to someone who was ready for a change or who was conservative but now I know he didn't believe or practice what he preached - he was just telling people what they wanted to hear be it left or right. My experience was similar to Tory's as she describes it in this video and this was my old haunt for a while also. As long as you weren't the guy being tossed in the chain locker things were fun around this time so I can completely relate to how some old timers could be stuck in a win.
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
The "social sciences" are inherently political. Academics are also totally dependent on research grant money. The combination means that social scientists are the willing servants of whoever controls the grant issuing process.
TheOriginalBigBlue
Gold Meritorious Patron
This from the top result from my search. What do these social science professors have to say about the reason for there being such a small sub-culture of republican professors?
When I was a democrat most of the democrat party was much different than it is now. It has basically become the Anti-American Marxist Party and I wouldn't trust anything coming from these professors to not push cultural Marxism. Cultural Marxism is exactly the same as Scientology's milieu control using loaded language to create a full immersion environment. Cults are no longer cults - they are sub-cultures and minority religions. This is how you get the Temple of Satan giving opening prayers at things like City Council meetings.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/apr/26/democratic-professors-outnumber-republicans-10-to-/
(snip)
There are more than 10 professors affiliated with the Democratic Party for every faculty member who is a registered Republican, according to a new study.
Mitchell Langbert, an associate professor of business management at Brooklyn College, reviewed the party affiliations of 8,688 tenure-track, Ph.D.-holding professors at 51 of the top 60 liberal arts colleges listed in U.S. News and World Report’s 2017 rankings.
Nearly 60 percent of all faculty members were registered as either a Republican or a Democrat, and of that sample, there were 10.4 times as many Democrats as Republicans.
“The political registration of full-time, Ph.D.-holding professors in top-tier liberal arts colleges is overwhelmingly Democratic,” Mr. Langbert wrote in an article published by the National Association of Scholars. “Indeed, faculty political affiliations at 39 percent of the colleges in my sample are Republican free — having zero Republicans.”
(snip)
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
This also means that the entire academic establishment of the social science research industry is deathly afraid of anyone finally replacing the people who approve grant requests, with people of a different viewpoint.
ILove2Lurk
Lisbeth Salander
. . .
After Mike Rinder blew and began working at a car dealership in north Denver,
Monique Yingling and her posse showed up and offered Mike hush money. He refused
it. I've read two amounts over the years: $5 million and $10 million. They were ready
to cut him a check for his silence and to go away forever. Or so I've heard.
Debbie Cook and Wayne Baumgarten were paid $50,000 each to sign non-disclosure
agreements when they left the SO in 2007. This has been confirmed by the COS during
her court case. The later lawsuit settlement is secret and nothing has been revealed by
any of the lawyers or the COS. At the time, people on the message board, myself included,
were speculating that the settlement must have been between $3 million and $5 million,
considering the number of lawyers involved on both sides.
I believe this to be true from my research.
My speculation is that Marty found out what that deal was and would not have settled for
any less in his deal, being he's so much more important.
That Marty got money is only
speculation, but I believe he did.
Realize that some of these big pay-offs might have been set up to be paid over a number
of years or decades to guarantee silence and good behavior over time. And remember . . .
attorney contingency fees could eat up 40-50% of the big settlements. Or so I've heard.
I've heard rumors of a couple other high-level execs receiving yearly salaries of $100-150K
for a number of years to stay quiet. I don't know if this was just for a year or two, while they
got on their feet, or if this was to continue on for many years. Strictly rumors from a good
source.
Larry Wollersheim, former COS public member, was paid a $8.7 million judgement after
battling in court for over 22 years.
I believe most SO members get $500 and a bus ticket. (Plus a freeloader debt.)
Life is not fair. Especially not fair for all the parishioners who charge large amounts on their
charge cards or take out second mortgages to facilitate these payments.
There's a few numbers for ya.
PS: Here's a list of "gag agreement" payments made in the early eighties and later.
Remember to multiply early 80's dollars by about 2.5X --- $1 million in 1980 = about
$2.5 million today. But who's counting?
(This list is from the defunct "lermanet" website and accessed via the Wayback Machine.)
PPS: My speculative parody posts about Marty (and his money) are here and here.
After Mike Rinder blew and began working at a car dealership in north Denver,
Monique Yingling and her posse showed up and offered Mike hush money. He refused
it. I've read two amounts over the years: $5 million and $10 million. They were ready
to cut him a check for his silence and to go away forever. Or so I've heard.
Debbie Cook and Wayne Baumgarten were paid $50,000 each to sign non-disclosure
agreements when they left the SO in 2007. This has been confirmed by the COS during
her court case. The later lawsuit settlement is secret and nothing has been revealed by
any of the lawyers or the COS. At the time, people on the message board, myself included,
were speculating that the settlement must have been between $3 million and $5 million,
considering the number of lawyers involved on both sides.
I believe this to be true from my research.
My speculation is that Marty found out what that deal was and would not have settled for
any less in his deal, being he's so much more important.
That Marty got money is onlyspeculation, but I believe he did.
Realize that some of these big pay-offs might have been set up to be paid over a number
of years or decades to guarantee silence and good behavior over time. And remember . . .
attorney contingency fees could eat up 40-50% of the big settlements. Or so I've heard.
I've heard rumors of a couple other high-level execs receiving yearly salaries of $100-150K
for a number of years to stay quiet. I don't know if this was just for a year or two, while they
got on their feet, or if this was to continue on for many years. Strictly rumors from a good
source.
Larry Wollersheim, former COS public member, was paid a $8.7 million judgement after
battling in court for over 22 years.
I believe most SO members get $500 and a bus ticket. (Plus a freeloader debt.)
Life is not fair. Especially not fair for all the parishioners who charge large amounts on their
charge cards or take out second mortgages to facilitate these payments.
There's a few numbers for ya.
PS: Here's a list of "gag agreement" payments made in the early eighties and later.
Remember to multiply early 80's dollars by about 2.5X --- $1 million in 1980 = about
$2.5 million today. But who's counting?
(This list is from the defunct "lermanet" website and accessed via the Wayback Machine.)
PPS: My speculative parody posts about Marty (and his money) are here and here.
Type4_PTS
Diamond Invictus SP
OK, so you didn't answer the question I asked.
The question was:
How exactly do social scientists study Scientologists? (and more importantly, the Church of Scientology?)
Social Sciences utilize the scientific method, just like scientists involved with the natural sciences. At least they're supposed to be using it. They don't always. And a critical component of the scientific method is observation.
When attempting to study the CoS they run into the same problem as when attempting to study Bigfoot. Neither the CoS or Bigfoot cooperate with the researchers and/or don't grant access.
CoS will grant access at times to staff from OSA, who then supply researchers with answers, but they're not truthful answers. They give them "acceptable truths" at best.
Show me a list of peer-reviewed scientific papers where Scientology was studied.
There's not too many of them. One of the reasons why is covered in this article:
Are Academics Afraid to Study Scientology?
For a religion that some experts estimate includes only 30,000 members worldwide, Scientology attracts a lot of attention. But not so much from scholars.
For a religion that some experts estimate includes only 30,000 members worldwide, Scientology attracts an extraordinary amount of media attention.
Its celebrity members and unusual theology make it extremely intriguing to outsiders: Tom Cruise is a high-ranking member, Will Smith has studied it, and John Travolta spent $5 million of his own money making a movie about its mythology, which includes a race of evil aliens. Founded in the 1950s, the religion has been the subject of countless magazine articles and blog posts, as well as two best-selling books by journalists within just the last three years. It can seem almost impossible not to be interested in this home-grown American religion.
There’s one group of people, however, who seem resistant to Scientology’s charms: academics.
<snip>
Full Article: https://daily.jstor.org/scholars-on-scientology/
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Gib
Crusader
"Debbie Cook and Wayne Baumgarten were paid $50,000 each to sign non-disclosure. . .
After Mike Rinder blew and began working at a car dealership in north Denver,
Monique Yingling and her posse showed up and offered Mike hush money. He refused
it. I've read two amounts over the years: $5 million and $10 million. They were ready
to cut him a check for his silence and to go away forever. Or so I've heard.
Debbie Cook and Wayne Baumgarten were paid $50,000 each to sign non-disclosure
agreements when they left the SO in 2007. This has been confirmed by the COS during
her court case. The later lawsuit settlement is secret and nothing has been revealed by
any of the lawyers or the COS. At the time, people on the message board, myself included,
were speculating that the settlement must have been between $3 million and $5 million,
considering the number of lawyers involved on both sides.
I believe this to be true from my research.
My speculation is that Marty found out what that deal was and would not have settled for
any less in his deal, being he's so much more important.
speculation, but I believe he did.
Realize that some of these big pay-offs might have been set up to be paid over a number
of years or decades to guarantee silence and good behavior over time. And remember . . .
attorney contingency fees could eat up 40-50% of the big settlements. Or so I've heard.
I've heard rumors of a couple other high-level execs receiving yearly salaries of $100-150K
for a number of years to stay quiet. I don't know if this was just for a year or two, while they
got on their feet, or if this was to continue on for many years. Strictly rumors from a good
source.
Larry Wollersheim, former COS public member, was paid a $8.7 million judgement after
battling in court for over 22 years.
I believe most SO members get $500 and a bus ticket. (Plus a freeloader debt.)
Life is not fair. Especially not fair for all the parishioners who charge large amounts on their
charge cards or take out second mortgages to facilitate these payments.
There's a few numbers for ya.
PS: Here's a list of "gag agreement" payments made in the early eighties and later.
Remember to multiply early 80's dollars by about 2.5X --- $1 million in 1980 = about
$2.5 million today. But who's counting?
(This list is from the defunct "lermanet" website and accessed via the Wayback Machine.)
PPS: My speculative parody posts about Marty (and his money) are here and here.
agreements when they left the SO in 2007. This has been confirmed by the COS during
her court case. The later lawsuit settlement is secret and nothing has been revealed by
any of the lawyers or the COS. At the time, people on the message board, myself included,
were speculating that the settlement must have been between $3 million and $5 million,
considering the number of lawyers involved on both sides."
There was a you tube leak that showed the lawyer giving the 50k check to Debbie, but see didn't want it. But she accepted it to get out of that place, it was also a NDA that she signed.
When she wrote the infamous 2012 New Year email, she violated the NDA, and the DM COS and lawyers sued her.
When she got up on the stand and interviewed by her lawyer, she told of her experience at Int Base under DM/COB leadership of the Church of Scientology. And she mentions crimes.
Shortly after that testimony by Debbie Cook, the DM/COS and lawyers settled with Debbie Cook.
Now Alanzo would state no crimes were convicted , and even Clay Pigeon would state that. But anybody who was a scientologists would state this is absurd and crazy. How could people at the the top of scientology do these things, we all thought they were the most ethical people on the planet.
And yes Alanzo, and Clay Pigeon, no crimes were convicted.
Watch this one by Michael Bennett:
Gib
Crusader
that's not true, your last sentence.
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