Be three feet behind your head

[Little Bear Victor]

While not currently a big believer in LRH tech, the subject of exteriorization is of great interest to me, and was indeed one of the key things that got me into Scientology.

Before Scientology, I knew the subject better as astral projection, out-of-body experience and other such names. The "astral body" was flatly debunked by LRH as "someone's delusion."

In any case, having heard a few Scientologist claim they have actually been exterior or are able to exteriorize at will, I would like some second opinions from ex-Scientologist as to the reality of this experience; meaning did you think, while an active Scientologist or doing the OT levels that you were exterior and still think so, or did you change your opinion on the matter and think you were imagining it.

Personally I think it is a natural phenomenon. I just don't know how natural or not the Scientology approach to it is.

Any opinion/viewpoint is welcome. If you think it is just another way for LRH to create a feeling of disconnection from oneself, or the worthlessness of the body, by all means, pipe in.

I'd just like to hear some non-moderated (by Church circumstance) opinions or experiences on the subject for my own education. Like do you think LRH did create some technology that did actually achieve it, is it a goal worth pursuing, has the state been stable in any one instance (especially your own), or is it all imagination and delusion?

I think LRH was still onto something when he wrote Creation of Human Ability, all around the idea of theta clear and stable exterior, although I never had any such experience in my years in Scientology. Prior to it, I did have something resembling it.

 

[Tanstaafl]

Hey LBV

Prior to hearing of Scn I had several episodes where I could hear what was going on around my body from 20-30feet behind it. Seemed pretty real. No vision though.

Later, during one objective process, with which I was bored, I thought I was exterior in the middle of the room playing a drum kit I'd mocked-up.

I ran my partner through Route 1, including the Grand Tour and Change of Space. She's a very matter-of-fact person and it was real to her. It took quite a while to get her to confront Venus though. This was before any real involvement with CoS. A few months later I read a ref. where Hubbard said one-third of women are acting as spies for Venus. :confused2:

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

At some point I went into agreement with that idea. That we really are spirits who doesn't neccesarily need to be inside our bodies.

I did however expect that if that was so, then the ability would be very natural and easy to do once tried.. Something like jumping into a swimmingpool from the high board. Afraid to do it at first, but very proud when having done it. Then very easy. Nothing to it.. Easier than a 'walk' in park really.

So.. Realizing that my clear and OT freinds could still not do it... Bah! - I dismissed the idea as fantasy.

I do think this was a mind trick.. To make you dissociate for suggestibility, like you mentioned.

Somewhat related is Hubbards incredible gold dishs that a thetan is supposed to 'align' in front of his eyes. Learn to control those and you don't need glasses.. Sheesh.. The man called himself a photographer. The human eye (or that of an animal) is an obvios camera.. No mysteries there at all. No need for fantastic theories. Structure explains why glasses are needed.

 

[Vinaire]

I experienced very vivid exteriorizations before Scientology, during Scientology, and after Scientology.

I never did any OT levels.

You may find some details in "Vinaire's Story" on this board.

Exteriorization has been a fact in Hinduism even when not known by that term.

.

 

[Tanstaafl]

-snip-
Somewhat related is Hubbards incredible gold dishs that a thetan is supposed to 'align' in front of his eyes. Learn to control those and you don't need glasses.. Sheesh.. The man called himself a photographer. The human eye (or that of an animal) is an obvios camera.. No mysteries there at all. No need for fantastic theories. Structure explains why glasses are needed.

Not wanting to divert but, does anyone have any data on the "famed" box of discarded spectacles in the Ls HGC? Heard about this on a DVD of an Ls briefing by Greg Wilhere.

Similar claims were made for effort processing IIRC.

This is kind of relevant since if (big if ) LRH wouldn't let anyone leave the ship when C/Sing the Ls unless they were exterior with perception and could maintain it, could you have a person with great exterior perception who still needed specs for the body. :confused2:

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Good question Tans! I can't answer it.. But I'm getting closer to earning another gold star!

I did read somewhere.. I think it was Jon Atacks book.. That Hubbard snickered over all those people who shrew their glasses away after a lecture about this.

Anyway, here he is.. With glasses!

 

[Tanstaafl]

Good question Tans! I can't answer it.. But I'm getting closer to earning another gold star!

I did read somewhere.. I think it was Jon Atacks book.. That Hubbard snickered over all those people who shrew their glasses away after a lecture about this.

Anyway, here he is.. With glasses!

Good come back SP!

I've never before seen a picture of the guy with glasses!
No doubt they were merely worn for aesthetic effect.

 

[Vinaire]

...could you have a person with great exterior perception who still needed specs for the body. :confused2:

I think it is possible.

It is possible that perception through body is "perception at effect," and the perception while exterior is "perception at increasing cause."

The two perceptions may be quite different in the beginning. But as one learns to modulate one's perceptions one might learn to parallel them to the physical perceptions.

It is an interesting area of speculation for me.

.

 

[Veda]

Not wanting to divert but, does anyone have any data on the "famed" box of discarded spectacles in the Ls HGC? Heard about this on a DVD of an Ls briefing by Greg Wilhere.

Similar claims were made for effort processing IIRC.

This is kind of relevant since if (big if ) LRH wouldn't let anyone leave the ship when C/Sing the Ls unless they were exterior with perception and could maintain it, could you have a person with great exterior perception who still needed specs for the body. :confused2:

Well, according to John Ausley, a review auditor on the ship at that time, people were only told that before boarding the ship, once they were on, and had their service, if they didn't agree that they were "exterior with perception," etc., as they were told the Commodore said they would be, then they'd be told that needing to be "exterior with full perception and able to maintain it," was a "hidden standard," and if they didn't "cognite" that that was so, then they'd need "Green Forms," or other review actions, and if that didn't "work," they'd become "ethics cases."

"Exteriorization," IMO, is a natural phenomena, and one exploited by Scientology. In Scientology, IMO, its often a delusional state or wishful thinking, BUT also can be an actuality, and can manifest in many ways.

As with a giant abreactive/relief! experience, having a dramatic "exterorization" experience, and attributing it to Scientology, or - worse - having such an experience INSIDE Scientology, can often stick a person to Scientology for years.

Better to "go exterior" running the L.A. Marathon, or listening to tapes from the Monroe Institute.

 

[Tanstaafl]

Veda - thanks for that. I'd not heard that account from Ausley before.

 

[Veda]

Veda - thanks for that. I'd not heard that account from Ausley before.

There's already been a fair amount of spirited discussion of this topic on ESMB, with the most contentious area being whether or not Hubbard was, himself, "exterior with full perception and able to maintain it." Ref. the David Mayo account of auditing Hubbard, and the Commodore Hubbard-describing-the-passing-vessel-incorrectly incident. It can be very emotional for true believing L. Roners, especially since true believing L. Roners can seldom admit to being that - yet another emotional area for the beleaguered Xenu-Bridge walkers.

Some related links, re exteriorization:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=21060&postcount=6

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=12572&postcount=116

 

[Tanstaafl]

There's already been a fair amount of spirited discussion of this topic on ESMB, with the most contentious area being whether or not Hubbard was, himself, "exterior with full perception and able to maintain it." Ref. the David Mayo account of auditing Hubbard, and the Commodore Hubbard-describing-the-passing-vessel-incorrectly incident. It can be very emotional for true believing L. Roners, especially since true believing L. Roners can seldom admit to being that - yet another emotional area for the beleaguered Xenu-Bridge walkers.

Some related links, re exteriorization:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=16675&postcount=3

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=12572&postcount=116

I started a thread on Ext with full perception myself.
Mike Henderson has done all three Ls and reported only fleeting experiences that might be categorised as being exterior.

I can't say I've been really emotional about it, but how I see things now is a major disappointment compared to what I hoped they were, as commonly represented in CoS. Now, I just have to be on guard against the hope I retain that such states can be achieved distorting my assessment of the scene.

 

[Goldenrod]

My hunch is that we all have a natural, although latent, ability to exteriorize from the body at will. My experience is this ability can be enhanced through training as in learning how to play golf although not all of us would win a Masters.

But what training?

I have experience with but three training methodologies: Hubbard’s bridge (from “raw meat” through OT IV), CRV (Controlled Remote Viewing), and out-of-body projection (aka Astral Projection). I am a beginner with CRV and OOB.

During 10 years on Hubbard’s bridge, I did exteriorize with full perception on one occasion when I was being audited on the “lower” grades. At that time (early/mid 1970s) one or more of the OT levels were being promoted as where one would become stably exterior, able to operate in that state, etc. I don’t remember the exact wording. I do recall a school teacher I was auditing on a “lower” level process referred to as “book and bottle.” The process was to have a book and a bottle placed in opposite sides of the room. I would give the school teacher instructions which required her to walk to one object, pick it up, notice things about it and then sit it down. Then the same instructions were given for the other object. At one point, I had to catch her body when it collapsed. She told me she suddenly found herself out of her body and looking at it from behind. I didn’t know of anyone during my Scio days who could exteriorize at will although this does not mean some did not have the ability.

CRV has been the most effective for me. In April/Mar 06, I took a beginner’s course from one of the original military Star Gate viewers, ex Major Paul Smith, now retired in Austin, TX. The training was inexpensive (I think I paid around $2,000 for the beginner’s course), and found it was as intense training as any I have ever had. As the training progressed, I was given a total of 12 “targets” to remote view. I had no idea what they were or where they were located. All I was given was a series of random numbers (coordinates) which “represented” each target and its location. Of the 12, I managed 9 hits. This included describing and sketching the targets, indicating colors, motions, tactile, moods, feelings, etc. that I could pick up at the target sites. My after session feedback was a color photo of the actual target. It’s important to note the training I studied was as originally developed at Stanford Research Institute where Ingo Swann was lead developer. It’s also important to note there are a host of people, some also ex-military Star Gate, who offer this training but only a few who stick to the original training materials that proved so workable (as does Paul Smith).

Out-of-body or OOB is also effective for me. The least expensive by far (cost of a book) are the techniques in the book “Adventures Beyond The Body” by William Buhlman. I find it takes a lot of practice but, again, it works for me.

Hubbard’s debunk of the astral body that you mention is, in my experience, pure hogwash.

Hope this helps.

 

[Kathy (ImOut)]

I was going exterior before Scn. In another post, I've stated that because I got so much crap (out-int BS) that I pretty much stopped going exterior while in Scn. I need to get back to being able to go exterior, since I do miss the ability I've had since I was a baby. My first memory of being exterior this lifetime was when I was 9 months old.

 

[Vinaire]

I started a thread on Ext with full perception myself.
Mike Henderson has done all three Ls and reported only fleeting experiences that might be categorised as being exterior.

I can't say I've been really emotional about it, but how I see things now is a major disappointment compared to what I hoped they were, as commonly represented in CoS. Now, I just have to be on guard against the hope I retain that such states can be achieved distorting my assessment of the scene.

Don't depend on Scientology or any other -ology.

Depend on yourself.

.

 

[Terril park]

I ran my partner through Route 1, including the Grand Tour and Change of Space. She's a very matter-of-fact person and it was real to her. It took quite a while to get her to confront Venus though. This was before any real involvement with CoS. A few months later I read a ref. where Hubbard said one-third of women are acting as spies for Venus. :confused2:

Everyone knows that. Men are from Mars women are from Venus.

Who else would they be spying on?

 

[Terril park]

Several years ago a thread on this started on OCMB. Quite a few people said they had experience of being ext. Mostly critics of course.

I spent the years between 6-14 refining the ability to be ext at will which started as an inadvertent ext.
Eventually managed to do at will, and promptly didn't bother about it anymore and lost the ability.
All pre scn. Almost gained this ability again after FPRD.

I know people who've gained the ability to go ext at will on OT levels.

Ext perception is much rarer I've found.

 

[PirateAndBum]

I have talked to a number of people on OT VII and OT VIII completions that say they are exterior all the time. I got the idea that at some point in doing NOTs this became the norm. Whether it is true or not I cannot say.

I can relate that in doing L11, I experienced a large increase in my space. It took me a while to figure out what was actually going on. I would feel as if I was being brushed up against but there was nothing touching me. After noticing this for a couple days I finally figured out what was happening. It was people walking through my space. Someone would walk by me while I was sitting at lunch, 3ft from me and would feel it. It was quite surprising and I was glad to figure out what was going on. I wouldn't say I was exterior - that's something I very much wanted to achieve (and still do.)

That "space' had before been filled with mental mass - L11 does quite a good job of blowing huge chunks off you - so much so that you can't walk straight. As I found out - I was balancing my body against these masses - when they went - I had to readjust to their absence. It was a phenomena many people on L11 experienced. It was quite funny to watch them - they walked like they were drunk for a couple days until they readjusted.

 

[Pepin]

A Spirit (Thetan) IS exterior

I am quite amazed at the posts I've read here in regards to "being exterior"

One friend, an OTIII completion said to me " He is always exterior because he knows he IS spirit and he is NOT a body"

That being said, He never actually realized the perceptions of constantly being three feet behind his head comfortably.

I was quite comfortable being three feet behind and above. I also regained my attention that I had been putting on this body and didn't realize it. Just like the Tech Manuals say.

I have no doubt that Hubbard was behind his body and with at least the same perceptions I experienced....easily seeing Time/Space as something I am not in.

Being exterior isn't really something I gained or something I lost. The ability if you want to call it that is always. Choosing to realize the truth, the truth being We Are spirits. Spirits are NOT bodies. Of course the BT's and the rest of the world will Scream a deafening roar to this concept and attempt to have you believe the lie THEY are comfortable with.

I know it's a lie and I tend to believe it myself. I did not even attempt OTIII without already being behind my head. Once I finished OTIII, I grew spiritual legs and had my attention back. This body really demands my attention.

One way to describe OTIII is ... telling the body to shut up.


~p

 

[uncle sam]

Yes I've been exterior as a result of auditing. The power processes kept me outside for several months - really enjoyable. Also, while I audited others, not alot but several times, usually doing complex repairs - I don't have a clue as to why or how. The best time I ever had being exterior was while I was having my gall bladder removed - was exterior with lots of perception - truly wonderful experience - could have been the drugs.