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Chasing Butterflies (is highly recommended)

Gadfly

Crusader
When I got involved in Scientology I took to heart the idea that I would try it and see whether it worked for me. I also took seriously the idea that what was going to be accepted as true for me was what I observed to be true for myself.

For the most part, I always had great experiences with the auditing, so that was what it was. I liked it. It felt good. It was true for me that it was doing something that affected me in a major positive way.

But there were many other things that I did not like or agree with. These had mostly to do with the mission of Scientology and the purposes and actions of the Scientology organization as set out by Hubbard.

For example, when I read KSW, to me, it was totally fine and okay to go out and chase butterflies. I took that as a sort of analogy to "smelling the roses", and to me, that was always a GOOD thing. So, based on my own observations and experiences, I didn't agree with Hubbard. Looking further it became clear why.

The notion is that it is not okay to be chasing butterflies when you should be auditing. The judgment here is that one should be always and only doing something along the lines of Scientology. This hinges on these beliefs and agreements that Hubbard peppers all throughout the subject materials of Scientology which create and justify the constant urgency and demand:

1) Only we, the Scientologists are doing something about it. (whatever "it" is)

2) Only we, the Scientologists can do something effective about it. (whatever "it" is)

3) This is our last chance to get out of the trap. (whatever this "trap" is)

4) If we don't make it this time, we will forever be consigned to an eternity of pain, failure and death.

So, IF it were true that there was a trap as described by Hubbard, IF it were true that Scientology provided the only current workable way out of this trap, IF it were true that planetary SPs were always conspiring to destroy Ron and Scientology, and IF, IF, and IF for a great many more claims, well then there might be some slight sense to it all. Using Hard Sell and tricking people with manipulative ARC might sort of be justified IF all these claims of Hubbard's were true.

But, for me, as I saw it, according to my own observations, the claims were not necessarily true, and there really was no way to prove these things. In the end, followers accept all of that on FAITH. They operate as true believers, believing in a great many things that are probably NOT actually true at all. Scientology rests upon all of these fantastic and arrogant claims and assertions.

The idea that you were supposed to "do what Ron says", or ask yourself "what would Ron do", seemed so absurd to me. What I should do was whatever my own honest observations, knowledge and conscience told me to do!

When I study or read anything, I read the claims, the statements, and the assertions, and then I try my best to observe the relevant realities that are being discussed, and I make up my own mind. THAT is what any subject of knowing should teach you to do. But with Scientology, instead, it fills your mind with a very specific bundle of content of ideas, beliefs, biases and opinions. It never actually provides you with a set of tools to ascertain the truth of any claim, the validity of any statement, or the worth of any idea. Hubbard just hands you a big bundle of convoluted ideas to you and tells you, accept and adopt THIS!

Scientology claims to provide a system of knowing how to know. THAT is rubbish. It is an empty claim. I have been digging into the philosophy books, thanks to TAJ, and I am finding out what real honest thinking beings have come up with in terms of what knowledge is, how can it be found, what are the problems of arriving at accurate knowledge, and so forth. Part of the problem is how can we and do we arrive at knowledge, about anything, that we accept with a degree of certainty.

For example, we are each quite certain that heavy moving objects will continue moving in a certain direction unless acted upon by another force (law of inertia). That IDEA is knowledge. But how did we arrive at that? How is (accurate) knowledge acquired? How do experiences of various aspects of reality operate to bring about understanding? Are some understandings there separate and before any experience (such as math or logic)?

Hubbard NEVER gets into ANY of this stuff. He was a loud-mouthed arrogant blowhard.

I should have been reading philosophy books instead of Fundamentals of Thought! :duh:
 
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WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
When I got out of Scientology and moved far away, one of my favorite things to do was hike and look at rocks. To me, it was just INTERESTING and I enjoyed doing it. When I was a kid, I chased butterflies, and I enjoyed doing that!

One day when I was out walking and looking at pretty rocks, it struck me as very funny that I was now happily doing something Hubbard specifically said was a bad thing in one of the KSW issues i.e., "looking at the pretty rocks, but not on the path that leads out of the trap" or words to that effect).

That was when I started to feel some freedom from all the bad labels that had been applied to me, for having the audacity to actually leave Scientology.
 

Boojuum

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thanks GF. Yes, you should have been reading real philosophy books. But you wouldn't have gotten any auditing.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Thanks GF. Yes, you should have been reading real philosophy books. But you wouldn't have gotten any auditing.

I will probably get stoned to death for saying this, but you are right!

In fact, I wouldn't change how I did any of it (at least on the lower Bridge). I had many many great experiences, and it set the standard for me of what it meant to "be there with nothing else". I experienced, for the first time in my life, total moments of serenity and "no mind". Of course, as I came to notice, that wasn't what it was necessarily aimed to do, and that wasn't necessarily what others got out of it. To a certain a degree, I think I myself got out of it what I wanted - I was looking for certain things, and for awhile I found them there with Scientology. Also, I got back what I put into it! Luckily, out and far away from Scientology I can study whatever I want, and mix it all together however I want.

And, I can take walks along the deer trails instead of salvaging this sector!

Of course, even back then I wanted to be there, serene and peaceful, but without all the of the insanity of Hubbard's Scientology organization!

I used to constantly ask myself, "why is there so much added bullshit to all of this"? Why can't it just be the auditing, and forget all of this other bogus nonsense?

But, it was Hubbard's vision and plan, and whatever the big picture was, it sure sucked!

My experience of Scientology was very schizophrenic and ambivalent. On the one hand I just LOVED the auditing, but on the other hand, I really came to quickly and greatly dislike the Scientology organization created by Hubbard. To me it possessed great extremes of good and bad. What made it so confusing, back then, was that Hubbard set it all up so that you had to buy into every bit of it, and there was no option to pick and choose. So, one had to justify, excuse or explain away the nuttiness of the third dynamic to maintain a view that the auditing was positive (for me).
 
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Nicole

Silver Meritorious Patron
For example, when I read KSW, to me, it was totally fine and okay to go out and chase butterflies. I took that as a sort of analogy to "smelling the roses", and to me, that was always a GOOD thing. So, based on my own observations and experiences, I didn't agree with Hubbard. Looking further it became clear why.

Have a look at my avatar.... The finger of my kid with a butterfly.... :)
 

Lucretia

Patron with Honors
But, it was Hubbard's vision and plan, and whatever the big picture was, it sure sucked!

My experience of Scientology was very schizophrenic and ambivalent. On the one hand I just LOVED the auditing, but on the other hand, I really came to quickly and greatly dislike the Scientology organization created by Hubbard. To me it possessed great extremes of good and bad. What made it so confusing, back then, was that Hubbard set it all up so that you had to buy into every bit of it, and there was no option to pick and choose. So, one had to justify, excuse or explain away the nuttiness of the third dynamic to maintain a view that the auditing was positive (for me).

$cn had to have had something for all of us, otherwise what sort of mugs were we to stick at this sick game? Personally, studying was my big ambition, and I did gain the ability to study, along with confidence that I COULD study and achieve things I wanted to achieve. I got all of this in the first 6 months, yet stayed for another 29 years. If the cult was stripped of the megalomania, and just delivered the lower levels, without the ideological religious mumbo jumbo, then it could be something great. As it is, I believe $cn to be evil and vile. The day I decided not to be a cultie and look at the world through my own eyes, not interpreted through the racist, sadistic and fascist filter of the cult, was a day of pure liberation. I still feel the elation of it. The question is, does the cult deserve to exist? There are good things to be had out of the cult, but it comes at a heavy cost. Does the cost outweigh the benefit? On balance I believe it does not. Can the beneficial parts of the cult exist without the bullshit? With difficulty. Everything in the cult is suffused with the maniacal. Stripping this away, would strip every second word!! Get rid of the organizational bullshit, the upper levels and the fucking "star high" goal, and there might be something worth having.

Chasing the butterflies is intrinsically necessary to happiness I believe. I left a career in which I was happily chasing my own butterflies, to make money so I could get up the bridge. Today my butterfly has turned into a great advance for the area of science I was involved in. I am recognised as the progenitor of the idea, but that is all. I could not have initiated this area of research but for the cult. I would not have left my research, but for the cult. I am on the horns of a dilemma. Why was hubbard such a fuckwit!!!!
 

Gadfly

Crusader
$cn had to have had something for all of us, otherwise what sort of mugs were we to stick at this sick game? Personally, studying was my big ambition, and I did gain the ability to study, along with confidence that I COULD study and achieve things I wanted to achieve. I got all of this in the first 6 months, yet stayed for another 29 years. If the cult was stripped of the megalomania, and just delivered the lower levels, without the ideological religious mumbo jumbo, then it could be something great. As it is, I believe $cn to be evil and vile. The day I decided not to be a cultie and look at the world through my own eyes, not interpreted through the racist, sadistic and fascist filter of the cult, was a day of pure liberation. I still feel the elation of it. The question is, does the cult deserve to exist? There are good things to be had out of the cult, but it comes at a heavy cost. Does the cost outweigh the benefit? On balance I believe it does not. Can the beneficial parts of the cult exist without the bullshit? With difficulty. Everything in the cult is suffused with the maniacal. Stripping this away, would strip every second word!! Get rid of the organizational bullshit, the upper levels and the fucking "star high" goal, and there might be something worth having.

Chasing the butterflies is intrinsically necessary to happiness I believe. I left a career in which I was happily chasing my own butterflies, to make money so I could get up the bridge. Today my butterfly has turned into a great advance for the area of science I was involved in. I am recognised as the progenitor of the idea, but that is all. I could not have initiated this area of research but for the cult. I would not have left my research, but for the cult. I am on the horns of a dilemma. Why was hubbard such a fuckwit!!!!

Beautiful post! :thumbsup:

I get it completely. And, I see it pretty much the same way, and you said it so very well:

"Get rid of the organizational bullshit, the upper levels and the fucking "star high" goal, and there might be something worth having."

I don't know WHY Hubbard was such a fuckwit, but THAT he was one is undeniable. :yes:
 

Boojuum

Silver Meritorious Patron
I think one way that LRH got me to believe him is that I couldn't believe that anyone would or could be so manipulative.

I think it's important for anyone who did get gains from Scientology to admit it. Getting out was such a shrinking? experience--being labeled a traitor, freeloader, backslider who is letting all of humanity down. And losing all of one's friends in the process was tough. But looking at how thrilled I was, before the bad stuff took over, well, that was pretty cool.

I enjoyed a walk in the woods with my spouse last weekend. Later in the day I saw the latest Star Trek movie. I realized that I enjoyed the walk much more than the movie. And I enjoyed the movie more than body routing or doing "call-in" or writing letters. Wogdom really is pretty darn good. Imagine LRH approving a CSW to take an idle stroll with spouse and see a movie while the civilization is crumbling. Ron, you were one weird dude.
 

Gib

Crusader
I think one way that LRH got me to believe him is that I couldn't believe that anyone would or could be so manipulative.

I think it's important for anyone who did get gains from Scientology to admit it. Getting out was such a shrinking? experience--being labeled a traitor, freeloader, backslider who is letting all of humanity down. And losing all of one's friends in the process was tough. But looking at how thrilled I was, before the bad stuff took over, well, that was pretty cool.

I enjoyed a walk in the woods with my spouse last weekend. Later in the day I saw the latest Star Trek movie. I realized that I enjoyed the walk much more than the movie. And I enjoyed the movie more than body routing or doing "call-in" or writing letters. Wogdom really is pretty darn good. Imagine LRH approving a CSW to take an idle stroll with spouse and see a movie while the civilization is crumbling. Ron, you were one weird dude.

same here. But the funny thing is hubbard was telling us that, he was telling us how the evil psych and others controlled us, all the while he doing so. Who'd believe it? This was one of the hardest "fixed ideas" for me to remove from my thoughts.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
I think one way that LRH got me to believe him is that I couldn't believe that anyone would or could be so manipulative.

I think it's important for anyone who did get gains from Scientology to admit it. Getting out was such a shrinking? experience--being labeled a traitor, freeloader, backslider who is letting all of humanity down. And losing all of one's friends in the process was tough. But looking at how thrilled I was, before the bad stuff took over, well, that was pretty cool.

I enjoyed a walk in the woods with my spouse last weekend. Later in the day I saw the latest Star Trek movie. I realized that I enjoyed the walk much more than the movie. And I enjoyed the movie more than body routing or doing "call-in" or writing letters. Wogdom really is pretty darn good. Imagine LRH approving a CSW to take an idle stroll with spouse and see a movie while the civilization is crumbling. Ron, you were one weird dude.

You make such an excellent point. :thumbsup:

It is beyond the possibility and quite unimaginable, in the minds of decent and honest people, that Hubbard could be such a huge deceptive piece of dogshit.

One just doesn't expect that the person who is talking on and on about freedom and truth and help, is actually SCREWING you.

That is part of why it slips by so many of us (at least in the beginning when we were so naive and trusting).
 

Gib

Crusader
You make such an excellent point. :thumbsup:

It is beyond the possibility and quite unimaginable, in the minds of decent and honest people, that Hubbard could be such a huge deceptive piece of dogshit.

One just doesn't expect that the person who is talking on and on about freedom and truth and help, is actually SCREWING you.

That is part of why it slips by so many of us
(at least in the beginning when we were so naive and trusting)
.

I recall reading in the books Problems of Work & New Slant on Life, in the beginning for me. I really liked those books and they did help me at the time. But I recall hubbard constantly saying "only a scientologist could" help solve the problem in life or improve some condition, etc. Mind you I wasn't really a scientologist when I read these books, I was a noobie.

But, there you go, hubbard selling us from the beginning on taking on a new identity or beingness. If I recall correctly, hubbard doesn't even promote in those books "our own goals & purposes" per se. :confused2:
 

Gadfly

Crusader
I recall reading in the books Problems of Work & New Slant on Life, in the beginning for me. I really liked those books and they did help me at the time. But I recall hubbard constantly saying "only a scientologist could" help solve the problem in life or improve some condition, etc. Mind you I wasn't really a scientologist when I read these books, I was a noobie.

But, there you go, hubbard selling us from the beginning on taking on a new identity or beingness. If I recall correctly, hubbard doesn't even promote in those books "our own goals & purposes" per se. :confused2:

Yes, Hubbard constantly defines WHAT a Scientologist is (which are almost all fictional exaggerations), and the aim is to get YOU to identify as being one of them. There is only one allowable set of goals in Scientology - Scientology's 3rd Dynamic goals (which in the end meant making LOTS of money for the Church of Scientology and Hubbard).
 

Gib

Crusader
Yes, Hubbard constantly defines WHAT a Scientologist is (which are almost all fictional exaggerations), and the aim is to get YOU to identify as being one of them.
There is only one allowable set of goals in Scientology - Scientology's 3rd Dynamic goals
(which in the end meant making LOTS of money for the Church of Scientology and Hubbard).

equals PTS/SP technology. All hard sold as technology of the mind. LOL

reference

http://tonyortega.org/2013/06/04/cl...-in-the-good-graces-of-scientology/#more-7374

Note the contradictions. LOL

An SP is fighting a long ago battle millions of years ago,

but yet to get in good graces again with the church, one never does the SP rundown, but has to pay back money owed. :roflmao:

Hellvahoax.
 

Boojuum

Silver Meritorious Patron
I was only 19 when I was introduced to Scientology. There were very few grown-ups outside of my family or school that I'd spent much time around, much less dealt with in a business manner. I was used to professors or parents or coaches and kids my age interspersed with a few summer jobs. I was not street wise but I was open minded enough to take advantage of what I saw as an opportunity for true spiritual betterment. I was unprepared for the high-pressure sales tactics that I had to listen to for the next dozen years. Steve Hassan's comment is appropriate, "You didn't join a cult. The cult recruited you."

Membership in Scientology was incomparable to anything else. In Scientologese, there's no datum of comparable magnitude. Actually, this is a big lie. Scientology was like many, many cults. We were brainwashed into believing that Scientology was the ONLY route out and the ONLY route was the "Bridge" and we were brainwashed into believing that Ron had special insight into the spiritual nature of man. Our ability to think for ourselves was stolen in a variety of ways--the demonization of anything non-Scientological; "head on a pike" for anyone not in full agreement; and the incessant build up of "standard tech" to stratospheric levels. In short, I (me) gave up my ability to use my science background to prove the workability of Scientology. Only after getting some distance was I able to see that the emperor didn't have any clothes.

Still, I benefitted from auditing and training and even in participating in the nuttiness of staff. On the downside, there was that ten year gap in my resume which is a big deal in my field.; there's also a number of weird attitudes that being a staff member hammered in. I'm recovering-I don't scream at subordinates anymore and stopped sending out dozens of letters in order to get my income up and don't do O/W write-ups.

:eyeroll:
 

Lucretia

Patron with Honors
Still, I benefitted from auditing and training and even in participating in the nuttiness of staff. On the downside, there was that ten year gap in my resume which is a big deal in my field.; there's also a number of weird attitudes that being a staff member hammered in. I'm recovering-I don't scream at subordinates anymore and stopped sending out dozens of letters in order to get my income up and don't do O/W write-ups.

:eyeroll:

:no: We've all been damaged haven't we. I've been out since 2007. I am still sloughing off the crap.
 

Boojuum

Silver Meritorious Patron
:no: We've all been damaged haven't we. I've been out since 2007. I am still sloughing off the crap.

I'm still sloughing after 25 years. Therapy helped. Getting wrapped up in other spiritual routes helped. Tons of contact with non-Scieno's really helped. ESMB has helped the most. When I watch videos of ex-staff/SO, I recognize these people as my people, even now. I suppose ex-Catholics or ex-Jehovah's Witnesses suffer the same issues. Compared to PTSD from a fighting a war, I think I can deal with it.

:yes:
 

Lucretia

Patron with Honors
I'm still sloughing after 25 years. Therapy helped. Getting wrapped up in other spiritual routes helped. Tons of contact with non-Scieno's really helped. ESMB has helped the most. When I watch videos of ex-staff/SO, I recognize these people as my people, even now. I suppose ex-Catholics or ex-Jehovah's Witnesses suffer the same issues. Compared to PTSD from a fighting a war, I think I can deal with it.
:yes:

Re PTSD from a war - yes, I don't wake up screaming. But it's like the nonsense has made indelible pathways in my brain. I catch myself labelling things, then double thinking and realising it's another piece of refuse I have to exorcise. I am sure ex-members of other cults (like the catholic church, not to mention moonies etc) have the same phenomenon. 25 years Boojuum. Wow, it's taken that long!!!
 

Boojuum

Silver Meritorious Patron
...25 years Boojuum. Wow, it's taken that long!!!

Life OUT has been dramatically better than life IN and it's not necessary to sympathize with my internalization of Hubbard-think. Many people had it a lot worse than I. I don't float back as much as I did and the dreams are no longer a problem. Nowadays, the number of resources and help available to exes is incredible and incredibly helpful in sorting out the experience.

To quote Scot Peck, "Life is not easy." Just because you're out of Scientology doesn't mean everything is rosy. Being a ex-Scientologist helped me in many ways. Scientology wasn't all bad.

If we can get past the concept that LRH was a manipulative, narcissistic asshole and look at the conceptual framework that Hubbard put together which is the framework that many of us adopted, THAT'S THE STICKY POINT. Engrams, tone scales, havingness, exteriorization, O/W, ethics conditions, stats, DB's, big thetans, CI, ARC, comm cycles, freedom, study "tech", as-is ness, the dynamics, 7 div org boards, SP's, cramming, hatting, formula, sec checks, and so forth all make up the universe that we bought into. That's a lot of preconceived notions of our world and much of it is partially true and only correct under special conditions. I worked diligently to make this LEGO world of Ron's make sense. In doing so, I ceded my own ability to sort out he world. Frankly, my concepts weren't that fully developed, LRH's notions of the world seemed quite complete--especially since Ron's greatness was reinforced so frequently. I felt fine accepting this fully-developed can of philosophic brilliance.

It takes a while to develop a comprehensive view of the world and many of us are busy making a buck or raising a family or watching movies or chasing butterflies. How vital is it for me to figure out where the tone scale or engram theory is screwed up? It might be far more important for me to go for a walk in the woods with my spouse. :yes:
 

Lucretia

Patron with Honors
Life OUT has been dramatically better than life IN and it's not necessary to sympathize with my internalization of Hubbard-think.

Being a fairly narcissitic person myself I was thinking I might have to put up with 25 years of double thinking as well, based on your experience with realigning your mind. I wasn't looking forward to it. And yes, a walk in the country with a dog or two is pretty good therapy.
 
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