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Dope-off. What Is It?

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
But ‘dope-off’ does appear to be a valid phenomenon, but I think that there are other causes other than going past a word or symbol that you didn’t understand (M/U). For example, Between 30 mins and an hour after having lunch, I quite often feel drowsy and sometimes struggle to stay awake. This was particularly annoying when I was in the courseroom and there was some martinet supervisor who insisted that I find the offending word rather than take a brisk walk and yell some rude words, in order to wake up. Eventually, I learned not to argue and made sure that I ‘found’ a word or two and thanked them for their help. :thumbsup:

Something that a guy told me at St Hill once, actually seemed to make a lot of sense, at least at the time. His explanation was that when you were reading (or listening to) something and you didn’t understand something, you were in effect, out of communication with the physical universe. This resulted in ‘an earlier similar’ restimulation of another time when you were out of communication with the physical universe, i.e. being unconscious and thus you started to become less conscious in PT.
Axiom142

Actually, I have never in my life experienced this dope-off phenomenon during reading or study of anything for myself. Although I had occasionally seen it happen with students when I was supping a SCN course room BUT it rarely.happened.
 
Actually, I have never in my life experienced this dope-off phenomenon during reading or study of anything for myself. ...

Get a copy of ... International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea 1972 (COLREGS). :sleepy:

I use to read a paragraph from it whenever I wanted to a take a nap but didn't feel sleepy. Works a treat. :thumbsup:


Mark A. Baker
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
I have a feeling that there are two completely different phenomena that unfortunately appear exactly the same.

There's needing a kip, as in morning TR's when you've had three hours sleep: and there's possibly mild unconsciousness leaving, having been confronted. Let's imagine talking to someone who is a good listener and knows nothing about the cult. You talk about an all night mag stuffing session followed by a full days work the next day. As you talk about it you yawn, your head goes fuzzy and after talking about it you feel just a little more awake.

Unfortunately line charging was the fashionable release signal, so to fake an EP to get the word clearer off your back you would say, ''I just realised what apple really means'' and giggle insanely. It is possible that confronting some mocked up past disaster you will get some relief, eventually, but cackling like a witch can just indicate being a (ex)scientologist who's bored of the process.
 

FoTi

Crusader
Oh, shit . . . I've sparked some more brilliance in Paul!:biggrin: :ohmy:

My take on it ,Mate . . . and these are simple observations, not a definitive study of it, is this.

Hubbard did say somewhere along the line that "tiredness," Sleepiness," "dope-off" and all those similar going unconscious scenarios is variously caused by O/R, failed purposes, low have, and I forget what else :melodramatic:

But in looking at these issues based on my experience with Alan's tech, I've come to a whole different, and I believe, more accurate and comprehensive understanding of it all.

Things gone on too long that induce boredom will put one into dope-off mode . . . gone on too longs or O/Rs put us in the realm of not wanting to experience PT and what's going on in it . . . and this kills havingness.

On the other thread, I didn't get into this aspect of it thoroughly . . . but anything that occludes or causes us to want to not experience causes a drop in havingness.

Similarly, this type of KO of our key ability, power and want of experience acts as a failed purpose.

Deep down at a basic spiritual level, these items of gone on too long, O/R, failed purpose, non-comprehension all are related. Alan noted in his lectures that the basic reason the universe of "The Heavens" or also called The Supreme Beings Universe declined and broke up was due to "having gone on too long" and non-comprehension. I find that to be true. That early universe ended up as a failed purpose and appears to be a basic on this unwanted experience, loss of hav and "unconsciousness" and dope off thing.

Your bright action of getting the person up and engaged in a new endeavor such as pounding the wall or getting intent of feeling the physical universe . . . does, at a minimum, give the guy two things: a) a new short term purpose to carry out and b) some use of the basic ability that is central to havingness: that of engaging in experience of the PT environment.

Thems my quick thoughts on it :p

Rog

What is KO? :sleepy:
 
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Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire

FoTi

Crusader

That's what I thought too, but I can't make sense of it being used in the following sentence of Roger's, as a key out. It doesn't seem to fit.

Similarly, this type of KO of our key ability, power and want of experience acts as a failed purpose.

How would a key out act as a failed purpose?
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Dullold said ''Of course, I am not considering the idea that anything is wrong with my procedure. ''

There's proof that you have studied LRH!(lol)
 

RogerB

Crusader
What is KO? :sleepy:

Knock Out . . . it's a frequently used slang term . . . . you should have asked google to define it . . . it would have come up.

In boxing it is a frequently used "term" . . . one example is Billy Blogs won by TKO the "T" = technical KO.

R
 

RogerB

Crusader
Thank you for your thoughts. My comments on them follow. :)

It's all think! Nothing but think!​

So you think it's think, eh? :biggrin:

Actually, I happen to think, see and know what I am referring to is spiritual action:yes:

Now, it is true that many are not up to processing in session or living
life at that level . . . but that does not invalidate the truth of it.

Alan wrote a very important "bulletin" some many moons ago. It was titled "Processor Alerts." It referred to being alert to the level at which your client needs to be processed at; and that in the terms of what does the Being consider him/herself to be and how do they actually operate in life.

In it he lists the various (as examples) states of Being the client can be in which also is what does the guy see himself as or conssider himself to be.

Some are quite low: they are being upsets or problems.

Some are being bodies and are quite sure that is all they are.

Some think they are a mind.

Some think they might be spiritual but sort of probably a mind with a body.

Some are aware they are spiritual and that they have and operate with or as a body.

Some, who've really done some advanced stuff have become aware of their personal God-like qualities and capacities.

I'll not get into what's above that :biggrin:

The importance of the bulletin is that Alan admonishes the processor to be sure to recognize and honor the state and condition of the client and to process them at the correct level and with the correct address to what has to be handled based on the state of the Being.

And example of this is that, for me, it's a relative waste of time to have me stamp the floor and all that kind of stuff to repair my havingness. For others, it'd be a waste of time to have them try and have them repair their havingness and dope-off by engaging them in spiritual process actions . . . make 'em contact the floor if they are being a body! :yes:

On all this below, I am in accord with you. You are actually doing fine work with it, and it is workable for most of the folks who'll use it.

For those who don't respond well enough to it, change the process up to have them do some "think" or more spiritual actions.

I simply passed on the underlying spiritual info on the why and what of drop in hav and dope off in case it sparked an answer to your question:yes: Not as an answer to how to handle all cases :no:

By the way, it is one of Hubbard's greatest goofs and errors in $cn practice to fail to recognize the actual state of Being of PCs but instead to process them in the "same old way" . . . indeed, one of the things I repeatedly see on ESMB is people telling of how they were simply not recognized for having the big gain/win/recovery of spiritual presence and capacity or such that they had, but instead got mauled by having it by-passed and processed on over.

R


Dulloldfart said:
Charged topics, like life, exist on several levels. The levels do interact inductively on each other, but it is a lot more efficient to address each directly (not necessarily one by one, although that can be done).

You can address a person mainly on a physical level, by a massage, say. A person can feel wonderful after a good massage, with no talking whatsoever. In fact it would be a distraction, as one just wants to relax and "be a body" for a while.

A person can address a topic mainly through the physical etheric band of sensation, effort etc. In recreating an incident or series of incidents to run, the client mainly focuses on recreating the efforts, the masses, the pressures, the sensations, the pains, without worrying about the think.

A person can address a topic through the emotional level. In recreating an incident or series of incidents to run, the client mainly focuses on recreating the emotions, the feelings in the incident, without worrying about the think.

A person can address a topic through the mental level. In recreating an incident or series of incidents to run, here the client mainly focuses on recreating the thoughts in the incident.

A person can address a topic focusing mainly on the higher spiritual levels too.

-----

This fits in with the subtle energy model of a person as per my usual illustration. The blue level next to the skin* is the physical etheric level holding the sensations, the next level with the coloured blobs is the emotional level, the thick yellow level next is the mental level, with the higher levels outside those. If one conducts all auditing on the mental yellow level, the only way of getting at stuff in the other levels is by induction. Changes at the mental level will impinge on the emotional level, but it is not the same as addressing the emotional level directly. I mean, look at the enormous difference between saying, "I was pretty unhappy with it" and sobbing your eyes out for ten minutes.

aura_4.jpg


Session dope-off (not low blood-sugar) might start at a think level, but by the time it has got to the body level (body starts to go to sleep) it is difficult to handle from a think approach. In session with an auditor right there it is still possible, because the auditor will stay awake and kick the pc awake enough to keep looking with what little awareness is left and answer the questions enough to finally dig him out. But solo? Forget it. I remember solo auditing sessions in the CofS where I got lots of sleep slumped over a correction list. The staff didn't really care as it was "auditing hours"!

Standing up and pounding the wall is not at the think level at all. And it is a very effective solo auditing (or PaulsRobot, more to the point) tool in one's arsenal. Very very effective. PaulsRobot wouldn't work without it because most of the procedures are very intense. The general expectation is a 20-30 minute hell-for-leather session with the blood (well, yawns etc.) flying, not a 2 hour gentile question-and-answer session. And deliberately going after something with that much charge can easily result in being overwhumped — STAND UP! immediately and stamp your feet and so forth and we're off to the races; slump forward and try and find the right thoughts and you're laid out for half an hour.

Now, you still haven't found the reason for the dope-off, but in many cases it doesn't matter. If the reason is that one's topic is overcharged, the Rub & Yawn "remedy" for the dope-off will fix that all by itself by bleeding off the charge. If you're studying and get hit you would usually need to go back and try again, and maybe you'll get smacked again and maybe you won't. But as long as you have this jim-dandy remedy handy you don't need to fear getting knocked over by stuff you don't understand before you have time to sort it out.

So there. :)

Paul

*The levels interpenetrate each other and the body, not lie on top of each other like a parcel wrapped in several layers of paper. Each higher (thinner or finer) level extends out more than the one below. So the mental level still penetrates the entire physical body, but in terms of frequency is three levels removed.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
By the way, it is one of Hubbard's greatest goofs and errors in $cn practice to fail to recognize the actual state of Being of PCs but instead to process them in the "same old way" . . . indeed, one of the things I repeatedly see on ESMB is people telling of how they were simply not recognized for having the big gain/win/recovery of spiritual presence and capacity or such that they had, but instead got mauled by having it by-passed and processed on over.

R

Yeah, Hubbard's notion of a one-size-fits-all mass-production line leading to spiritual freedom is absurd.

Forcing people onto and into this extremely restrictive conveyor belt approach to personal growth is NUTS!

Hubbard detailed and defined the only possible "wins" and "abilities" with each grade on the Grade Chart, and if your win or realization didn't fit in, well tough shit on you. And, to make it worse, if you didn't fit into Hubbard's system the view was that there MUST be something wrong with YOU.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
And example of this is that, for me, it's a relative waste of time to have me stamp the floor and all that kind of stuff to repair my havingness. For others, it'd be a waste of time to have them try and have them repair their havingness and dope-off by engaging them in spiritual process actions . . . make 'em contact the floor if they are being a body! :yes:

I understand what you are saying. :)

I've found that one can do Rub & Yawn at a higher level too. I was experimenting with one of my more exotic PaulsRobot modules (maybe RAW4 or maybe SpotAnAngel or maybe even the Spiritual/Cosmic variations in HeavyDuty), where being "blown out" was the starting point, not the ending point. The Rub bit consisted of clapping the hands together while they were physically a foot or so apart, so what was "clapping" were the edges of the higher levels of the auric field of each hand contacting one another instead of the physical surfaces.

That wasn't think either. :biggrin:

-----

I know there is a difference between mundane thinking and conceptualizing. I wanted to make the point that having 100% of one's processing at a think or concept level is not as useful as addressing stuff physically, sensationally, and emotionally too. Would you prefer dinner or sex or a massage at a concept level, O Elevated One? :biggrin:

Paul
 
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RogerB

Crusader
Yeah, Hubbard's notion of a one-size-fits-all mass-production line leading to spiritual freedom is absurd.

Forcing people onto and into this extremely restrictive conveyor belt approach to personal growth is NUTS!

Hubbard detailed and defined the only possible "wins" and "abilities" with each grade on the Grade Chart, and if your win or realization didn't fit in, well tough shit on you. And, to make it worse, if you didn't fit into Hubbard's system the view was that there MUST be something wrong with YOU.

:thumbsup::thumbsup: Spot on, Gadfly! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

That is precisely why and how so many folks got mauled. You were only viewed in the "standard tech terms" as enunciated by "Source." And if you achieved something not understood in those limited or often erroneous terms, you got screwed in their effort to make you fit :duh::duh: :angry:

Quite nuts!

R
 

RogerB

Crusader
I understand what you are saying. :)

I've found that one can do Rub & Yawn at a higher level too. I was experimenting with one of my more exotic PaulsRobot modules (maybe RAW4 or maybe SpotAnAngel or maybe even the Spiritual/Cosmic variations in HeavyDuty), where being "blown out" was the starting point, not the ending point. The Rub bit consisted of clapping the hands together while they were physically a foot or so apart, so what was "clapping" were the edges of the higher levels of the auric field of each hand contacting one another instead of the physical surfaces.

That wasn't think either. :biggrin:

-----

I know there is a difference between mundane thinking and conceptualizing. I wanted to make the point that having 100% of one's processing at a think or concept level is not as useful as addressing stuff physically, sensationally, and emotionally too. Would you prefer dinner or sex or a massage at a concept level, O Elevated One? :biggrin:

Paul

Neat! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

You is moar clever than I ever imagined :blush::biggrin:

R
 
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