In defense of John Travolta

[Mick Wenlock]

Just do a google search "mercury in innoculations" and you should find it easily.

Or search for "thimerosal". That is the preservative that is used in some vaccines going back to about the 1930's. Thimerosal is about 49% mercury by weight.

actually it is very simple - just go to the cdc website and search and you will find that there is NONE.

And now that you have laid that to rest...

 

[Gottabrain]

Thanks, Type 4. Good to see you.

My ex-husband's father used to do studies into what the combined toxic amounts of different things a person takes in from different sources in their day to day lives would be. There should be thousands of people studying that for us.

Hard to imagine mercury by injection in any form wouldn't be bad for a person, especially a child.

Mercury in injections. That's horrible.

 

[Gottabrain]

Thanks, Mick.

Maybe it varies country to country?

 

[Stephanie]

Again, where’s the PROOF?



I assume that you are joking. But you might want to consider the implications of what you have just said. Unless you are somehow qualified to dispense medical or health advice, please don’t tie it in to ESMB. I don’t want to see anything being used as an excuse to attack this forum, e.g. being responsible for giving out spurious and /or dangerous advice.



By ‘cynical critic’ I assume that you mean ‘some one who insists that proper evidence be provided to back up sweeping statements'?

This sort of ignorant dismissal is one of the attitudes that was very common in the CoS, infuriated me and helped to convince me that it was a cult.

I wonder how soon it will be before you start calling the critics ‘anti-health bigots’ or even ‘haters’?

Don’t be coy, please name names. If you have an issue with what we say, why not respond directly instead of making some backhanded jibe?



And with all due respect, you need to realise that you are not in a cult anymore. Or did you never really leave?

Axiom142

Axiom,

I appreciate your efforts that Autism causes be not hearsay but rather from legitimate sources of rigorous scientific studies.

Whats true for the educated crowd is based on Scientific findings. Whats true for some others is whats true for them.

 

[Type4_PTS]

actually it is very simple - just go to the cdc website and search and you will find that there is NONE.

Really? Would you be willing to wager a beer on that point?

 

[Gottabrain]

Four and Mick, you two work it out. I love you both dearly for your intelligence and giving correct information and love seeing you both in discussions. This is not an area I know much about so pardon me if I stay out and let you work out the facts. I will go with your conclusions and references and I am considering particularly the countries of Australia and America.

I think knowing about the mercury is important.

Thanks, guys.

 

[Gottabrain]

Re Fluoride:

I remember many years ago actually printing out the study that it was good for your teeth and reading the whole thing. It was huge.

From what I recall, fluoride had a +0.05 result on being good for your teeth. This is a null result, as the error factor is + 0.05 to - 0.05.

Haven't read any studies since.

 

[Type4_PTS]

I will go with your conclusions and references and I am considering particularly the countries of Australia and America.
I think knowing about the mercury is important.

This is a subject that has been debated quite abit on this message board with a number of threads involved. If your interested, I'll give you several references I found which I feel are important. Mick and I seem to be at opposite ends on this issue based upon his view of the science out there.
(if I mischaracterized his position I'm sure he'll correct it)
And if one were to go by the public pronouncements of the FDA and CDC those agencies I'm sure would side with Mick. Unfortunately politics and major financial (and other) conflicts of interest enter into the equation. Those agencies that are supposed to represent the American people on these vital issues have been shown to have other conflicting interests. The U.S. Congress did a three year investigation into the vaccine industry and exposed a very unhealthy relationship between CDC, FDA with the vaccine industry that they're supposed to be regulating.
Here's a few references I recommend as a beginning if you have an interest in this issue:

1) http://www.robertfkennedyjr.com/docs/ThimerosalScandalFINAL.PDF
This is a very good expose by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Details some of the history of thimerosal and shows what the CDC and FDA officials REALLY think about the subject when they are in private meetings as opposed to making public statements (this is possible through some documents extracted from CDC by using the Freedom of Information Act).

2) http://www.drbuttar.com/media/CongressionalHearing.pdf
This is a transcript of testimony of Dr. Rashid Buttar before the U.S. Congress. Some of his patients who were US Congressman observed what was happening with some kids being treated for Autism in his office after mercury was taken out of their body (along with other treatments), and as a result of this insisted he come to Washington DC and testify in front of congress.

3) http://thelastoutpost.com/video-1/health/dr-boyd-haley-on-mercury-toxicity-and-autism.html
A short article and videos from Dr. Boyd Haley, Chairman of the Dept of Chemistry at the Univ. of Kentucky. There are other great sources of info from Haley as well if you do a search on Google you'll see him.

4)Gary Null video of him speaking on the subject a couple months back in New York when the city wanted to require mandatory vaccinations for H1N1 for certain professions. There's hundreds of other great sources out there, but that's a start.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3XlJB7J5-ohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3XlJB7J5-o

 

[Deb Lee]

I remember Jetts Mother, going on TV when he was 2 years old, saying he had been crawling around on a carpet which had been chemically cleaned, and was unaware it was a problem, until she got down on her hands and knees and got her nose down within a couple of inches of the carpet, and the fumes about knocked her out. So, she went on a campaign to inform parents about the dangers of chemicals in the home, to their children. I think they had targeted chemicals in their carpet for their sons problems, at that point. I don't know if that changed later.

Thank you, yes, I have experience in this area, my daughter was greatly affected. and I cant believe all the ignorant and very unkind critical replies.

 

[Deb Lee]

This is a subject that has been debated quite abit on this message board with a number of threads involved. If your interested, I'll give you several references I found which I feel are important. Mick and I seem to be at opposite ends on this issue based upon his view of the science out there.
(if I mischaracterized his position I'm sure he'll correct it)
And if one were to go by the public pronouncements of the FDA and CDC those agencies I'm sure would side with Mick. Unfortunately politics and major financial (and other) conflicts of interest enter into the equation. Those agencies that are supposed to represent the American people on these vital issues have been shown to have other conflicting interests. The U.S. Congress did a three year investigation into the vaccine industry and exposed a very unhealthy relationship between CDC, FDA with the vaccine industry that they're supposed to be regulating.
Here's a few references I recommend as a beginning if you have an interest in this issue:

1) http://www.robertfkennedyjr.com/docs/ThimerosalScandalFINAL.PDF
This is a very good expose by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Details some of the history of thimerosal and shows what the CDC and FDA officials REALLY think about the subject when they are in private meetings as opposed to making public statements (this is possible through some documents extracted from CDC by using the Freedom of Information Act).

2) http://www.drbuttar.com/media/CongressionalHearing.pdf
This is a transcript of testimony of Dr. Rashid Buttar before the U.S. Congress. Some of his patients who were US Congressman observed what was happening with some kids being treated for Autism in his office after mercury was taken out of their body (along with other treatments), and as a result of this insisted he come to Washington DC and testify in front of congress.

3) http://thelastoutpost.com/video-1/health/dr-boyd-haley-on-mercury-toxicity-and-autism.html
A short article and videos from Dr. Boyd Haley, Chairman of the Dept of Chemistry at the Univ. of Kentucky. There are other great sources of info from Haley as well if you do a search on Google you'll see him.

4)Gary Null video of him speaking on the subject a couple months back in New York when the city wanted to require mandatory vaccinations for H1N1 for certain professions. There's hundreds of other great sources out there, but that's a start.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3XlJB7J5-ohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3XlJB7J5-o

Thank you, your reply was very informative, which is what I intended in my post. But I got a lot of ingnorant and unkind responses. Books by Dr Doris Rapp about environmental chemicals is very valuable too. Called, "Is this your childs world?", is one.

 

[nexus100]

 

[Cherished]

Re Fluoride:

I remember many years ago actually printing out the study that it was good for your teeth and reading the whole thing. I did, I really did. It was huge.

From what I recall, fluoride had a +0.05 result on being good for your teeth. This is a null result, as the error factor is + 0.05 to - 0.05.

Haven't read any studies since. I think it's useless for teeth, but I'm not convinced it's necessarily toxic to the body, though, in such minute amounts.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control listed water fluoridation as one of the ten great public health achievements of the 20th century, saying:

Fluoridation has played an important role in the reductions in tooth decay (40%-70% in children) and of tooth loss in adults (40%-60%)

Australia's National Health and Medical Research Council did a systematic review of the efficacy and safety of fluoride in 2007, finding:

The existing body of evidence strongly suggests that water fluoridation is beneficial at reducing dental caries.

. In its 1991 survey, the NHMRC found that:

Water fluoridation at 1ppm provides a 20-40% reduction in caries.

 

[Purple Rain]

I really wish you would post later stuff later, Deb. I find it confusing having the original post continually change.

I know you're upset. I myself have a child with a very severe disability, which is actually the most severe disorder on the autism spectrum.

I too felt and feel terribly sad for John and Kelly.

On a public forum people will post what they will post. You have to be prepared for that, and also it is really alright for them to have a different point of view. Some people will be polite about it. Some will be rude. That's life. Vive la difference!



This is what I feel anyway. Best of luck for your family. I know that the road can be terribly tough. Peace.

 

[Cherished]

Dear Deb, I'm sorry to hear that your daughter has had health problems. I'm sure you've done your very best as a mother to find out what you can do to help her, and will continue to do that.

John Travolta and Kelly Preston did not cause Jett's autism. I applaud them for trying anti-seizure medication. Obviously, unless you're a medical specialist yourself, you/we must act on the advice of specialists. I imagine that's what they did as parents. Whether the specialists they relied on were good ones is probably up for debate. But, there's no doubt in my mind that as parents they loved Jett very, very much.

The challenge for them, and for you and all of us, is to evaluate the information published about various medical conditions, causes and treatments. It can be bewildering and, I imagine, frightening, especially when so-called "experts" present absolutely contradictory claims.

I suspect that some of the very strong critical reactions to your post came because many people here have been burned by trusting the Church of Scientology and CCHR and their allies (such as naturalnews.com), only to find out that some or many of their claims were not backed up by evidence, or the evidence was skewed to support their claims.

An example of just how easy it is to do this is the following site about the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide (DHMO), which I encourage you to look carefully at: http://www.dhmo.org .

There are many claims made on the site about the dangers of DHMO. The claims (so far as I can tell) are true. For example, the following claimed uses of DHMO are all true:

# as a major ingredient in many home-brewed bombs,
# as a byproduct of hydrocarbon combustion in furnaces and air conditioning compressor operation,
# in cult rituals,
# by the Church of Scientology on their members and their members' families (although surprisingly, many members recently have contacted DHMO.org to vehemently deny such use),
# by both the KKK and the NAACP during rallies and marches,
# by members of Congress who are under investigation for financial corruption and inappropriate IM behavior,
# by the clientele at a number of bath houses in New York City and San Francisco,
# historically, in Hitler's death camps in Nazi Germany, and in prisons in Turkey, Serbia, Croatia, Libya, Iraq and Iran,
# in World War II prison camps in Japan, and in prisons in China, for various forms of torture,
# during many recent religious and ethnic wars in the Middle East,
# by many terrorist organizations including al Quaeda,
# in community swimming pools to maintain chemical balance,
# in day care centers, purportedly for sanitary purposes,

The following is also true:

What is the link between Dihydrogen Monoxide and school violence?

A recent stunning revelation is that in every single instance of violence in our country's schools, including infamous shootings in high schools in Denver and Arkansas, Dihydrogen Monoxide was involved. In fact, DHMO is often very available to students of all ages within the assumed safe confines of school buildings. None of the school administrators with which we spoke could say for certain how much of the substance is in use within their very hallways.

The claims are true. And yet, the site is misleading. It creates a frightening image for a substance that is also essential to life - water. DHMO is another way of saying H2O. The site is a parody site.

My point is that one of the challenges we all face is learning how to evaluate the claims of so-called "experts". Unfortunately, the logic employed by the CCHR in much of its publications is about as good as that of the author of dhmo.org. They take something true and draw conclusions from that fact that are illogical or misleading or just plain wrong. They don't give you enough independent research references to enable you to evaluate how they've used the research data. They don't evaluate the "studies" they refer to.

Compare the National Health and Medical Research Council paper about water fluoridation that I referred to previously. Look at how detailed the review is of the literature - and bear in mind that the paper linked to is only Part A. They assess the quality of the research studies and classify the evidence they provide as Class I, II, III or IV, etc as a way of helping weigh up the relative value of the studies. And they are careful not to draw extreme conclusions from the evidence.

I hope this is helpful and I wish you and your daughter well.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Really? Would you be willing to wager a beer on that point?

Yep.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228#t1

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Thank you, your reply was very informative, which is what I intended in my post. But I got a lot of ingnorant and unkind responses. Books by Dr Doris Rapp about environmental chemicals is very valuable too. Called, "Is this your childs world?", is one.

The responses were not "ignorant' merely because they do not agree with you.

You may wish to grasp the ideo that YOU are the ignorant one.

And please - there are several people on this forum who have children with severe disabilities.

 

[MrNobody]

Cherished, I absolutely love your post, and I wholeheartedly agree that DHMO should be banned - from this whole planet, and from this whole universe, if possible. This stuff is just too dangerous.

 

[zeropointreference]

[AFTER POSTING AND SEEING THE UGLY RESPONSES:
FIRST, THANK YOU TO THOSE THAT ADDED MORE VALUABLE INFORMATION, AND KIND REMARKS.
You know what? THOSE THAT WERE NASTY KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THEY CAN STICK IT. And I found the ignore button. I have actual experience with this, with my child. Such hateful, nasty, critical responses, from ignorant people. I have studied extensively, and even gave references. Someone gave a reference from a mass media article in a science mag..wrong, they are covering up for the billion dollar pharma. I trained in 'wog' mass media, using psych techniques to control the masses, telling you what to buy, how to think, who to vote for. The data I gave was accurate, and there is much more, environmental toxins that do incredible damage. I trained in the history of the education system to dumb you down, QUOTE: "The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all; it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed a standard citizenry, to put down dissent and originality" - H.L. Mencken. BOOK: The Leipzig Connection by Paolo Lionni & Lance J. Klass. This book is amazing - it is the truth, using our schools to 'condition, the masses into ignorant, stupid, easy to control 'human animals'. BOOK: The Underground History of American Education, by John Taylor Gatto COMPLETE BOOK FREE ON LINE!!! The Odysseus Group: http://www.johntaylorgatto.com

I was anti-psych long before I came across Scientology, especially via consumer law & midwife training...Psych is only a treatist, a THEORY, with no medical tests, or proof whatsoever. A cult, making billions of dollars selling FRAUDULENT AND DANGEROUS drugs. By the way, all those on psych drugs are poisioning the rest of us. When they go to the bathroom, these drugs are NOT filtered out in America's water systems, as reported by the Environmental Working Group and Natural News.com. Talk about real terrorism. www.ewg.org & www.naturalhealthnews.com And per x-president Bush Jr's, "New Freedom on Mental Health Commission", we can be forcibly detained in Fema camps, and drugged on psych drugs, if we support the constitution and a lot of other things, per the Home Office!!! The Patriot Act, (almost the same as Hitler's Enabling Act), and The Military Act.

Also see groups of psychs fighting psychs - International Center for the Study of Psychiatry and Psychology. http://www.icspp.org
Also, Dr Mary Ann Block, Dr. Ann Blake Tracy, Dr John Breeding, Dr. Fred A. Baughman Jr, Dr Thomas Szasz, Dr Rima Laibow, (also against the UN's CODEX, removing our rights to vits and minerals), Dr Ron Liefer, Dr Thomas Armstrong, Ph.D., Dr Jay Joseph (about no evidence of genes causing mental illness), and so on. GEE, these psychs arent scientologists fighting psych FRAUD. Another comment put me down because I was quote: brainwashed into CCHR thinking..how stupid can you get?

I know what I am talking about. People all across America are fighting this bullshit.
STUDY, STUDY, STUDY, OUTSIDE THE BOX, IT'S GOOD FOR YOU. None of this is intended for medical advice, just links to give you some leads. My post was in compassion for John Travolta, and wife, losing a child.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ORIGINAL POST:
In defense of John Travolta, because the media is sort 'suggesting' scientology on his son dying...TYPICAL LETS FIND SOMETHING TO PICK ON.

As I trained in midwivery and mass media and how it uses psych tech to control the masses, brainwashing them. And the fact that American media is owned by several billion dollar drug companies, and war machine companies...and have a special education psych in the family, and know many teachers that have experienced and witnessed the same:

It is well known that kids with vaccinations can cause autism, and in later years, Alzheimer's.
Some kids/adults are more susceptible to mercury. Now a days, kids get 52 shots. When in my generation, was only about 7. Americans are the most over innoculated people in the world, other countries dont pass out so much.

Our American vaccinations have mercury in them. YES, ALL OF THEM HAVE MERCURY IN THEM, IT'S IN THE THERMISOL. (Yet, they have been banned in other countries, other countries wont allow the vacc's with mercury in them. Just like they have banned American meat and dairy for the synthetic hormones in it.)

A natural doctor that is trained to cleanse the body of toxic metals is needed - and I believe the purification rundown does not clean the body of toxic metals, and certainly auditing is not going to handle the fact that these toxic metals have to be cleaned out.

Esp Fluoride, which was used in Nazi concentration camps to induce apathy. It's a neurotoxin.

http://www.naturalnews.com/027693_fluoride_cancer.html

We dont know what John tried - I am sure he went to many doctors, esp with all the money, as so many American parents have done. But sometimes the damage is too much.
Medical doctors have no way of handling autism, all they do is try drugs. Try this, try that. And kids die. None of it works. One doctor I read up on, noticed, just by accident, a parasite drug worked. I have to find that reference.

I have experience with this, with my child.
Something auditing is not going to handle it, it's a body problem.

Also the mass media is owned by only 6 corporations, in America, one or two of which are billion dollar drug companies, who are not going to put down their drugs or vaccinations, when it affects billions in profits.

http://www.naturalnews.com

and environmental working group
http://www.ewg.org

Book: The Fluoride Deception, by Christopher Bryson

See "Fluoride & The Brain", Fluoride is a neurotoxicant, http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/brain/index.html

Statement released January 2, 1997 from the EPA reads: “…indicates a causal link between fluoride/fluoridation and cancer, genetic damage, neurological impairment, and bone pathology”

Fluoride promotes and enhances the carcinogenicity of other cancer causing chemicals in the food and environment - great if your in the cancer business. It allows your body to absorb MORE toxic metals, (esp in vaccinations), causing 'mental disorders'. The list goes on.

Also see books by Dr Doris Rapp on environmental toxins.
http://www.drrapp.com/

Our Toxic World: A Wake Up Call & Is This Your Child's World?
How You Can Fix the Schools and Homes That Are Making Your Children Sick Our Toxic World

First off, I feel bad for you if your threshold for unkind is so low. I've known people who can't even hold a level conversation without getting offended and it's a real disability. Like phobia and depression. Especially if one takes non-consensus opinions and regards them as automatically as "unkind".

Second, as the poster of the scientific article regarding other environmental factors may be at play when it comes to autism, I find it disturbing that a parent who claims their kid is autistic would so carelessly and frivolously toss away any information that might be relevant to their position. Especially when what was posted seems to bolster your position instead of detract from it. Environmental poisoning, right? Are you that single minded you can't see the forest?

And the problem is your working with opinion. How do I know your working with opinion? Because no one, including you, knows what causes autism. No one. Until you can lay down the hard 100% undeniable proof on the table, then you must relax your position and stop saying "this is that and that is this" until you, me, and everyone else KNOWS the truth.

There's too many factors that need to be waded through. There are a lot of variables that are unrelated that seem to have some impact on what's going on. Like whether the birth was a breech birth, being male vs female, and the father factor, just to name a few including the environmental factors stated in this thread as well.

In the little bit of reading I did yesterday, it sounds like autism is probably going to be one of those things where it's a body's reaction to a certain kind of injury in the formative stages, but you can get the injury several different ways. That's probably the reason the state of autism knowledge is like it is, is because we still don't understand the injury so we are focusing on trying to find The Cause when there isn't just one cause. Instead it will probably be "this is worse than that but both things cause autism".

And if any of this come of as unkind, I'm sorry. I do mean this to be an adult and civil conversation. I respect your opinion and I hope you will do the same.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Thank you, your reply was very informative, which is what I intended in my post. But I got a lot of ingnorant and unkind responses.

Well I've found that there are people on both sides of this issue all of whom feel very strongly. But if you hang out here on ESMB long enough all your buttons will tend to get flattened on this.

 

[Zinjifar]

Well I've found that there are people on both sides of this issue all of whom feel very strongly. But if you hang out here on ESMB long enough all your buttons will tend to get flattened on this.

Buttons get flattened, yes. But, even more frequently the fingers trying to push the buttons break off.

Zinj