Now try and tell me there's no God!
- Thread starter The Great Zorg
- Start date
SchwimmelPuckel
Genuine Meatball
Yeh... It's not only in the airways gawd gets credit. Happens to women quite often.. Like when she's been in the kitchen for hours preparing the food for the whole family, and then the god fearing husband thanks god for it.
SchwimmelPuckel
Genuine Meatball
Allright!! - ALLRIGHT!!!! - I watched that video again and payed rapt attention. He does indeed touch down on the first pass.. And I can't even determine if he's touching down earlier on the rwy on the second pass.. So you may be quite right, he does it for a rehearsal.
The Great Zorg
Gold Meritorious Patron
My thoughts exactly. We're on our own unless something intervenes, as in the jet glider incident. :confused2:
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
my time is important, don't waste it
jesus!
you want me to watch a video of a nearly normal safe landing f'crissakes?
wassamattawichoo?
jesus!
you want me to watch a video of a nearly normal safe landing f'crissakes?
wassamattawichoo?
Auditor's Toad
Clear as Mud
The first pass -what is called a touch & go - he bumped the main gear in an effort to get the nose gear down and locked. It didn't.
And, yes, on the actual landing he wanted to get on the runway as early as possible to give himself more runnin room to hold the nose off as long as possible and then not use his brakes.
Being a pilot is best described as many long boring hours intersperced with occassional moments of sheer stark terror.
And, yes, on the actual landing he wanted to get on the runway as early as possible to give himself more runnin room to hold the nose off as long as possible and then not use his brakes.
Being a pilot is best described as many long boring hours intersperced with occassional moments of sheer stark terror.
Axiom142
Gold Meritorious Patron
There is no God.
There is no higher power.
Or at least there doesn’t have to be one to explain the events mentioned.
Machines aren’t perfect, humans aren’t perfect. Accidents happen and people do things to prevent disasters. This doesn’t require the presence or actions of a ‘higher power’.
Why would a god intervene to save a few people travelling in an aeroplane or two and then allow 10 – 20,000+ to die as a result of the earthquake off Japan. Or what about the 230,000+ killed in the Boxing Day Tsunami? Two world wars countless brutal religious atrocities, plagues and the St Valentine’s Day Massacre?
Or did God choose not to intervene because these didn’t exclusively involve Canadians? Is He really that capricious that He would choose to let millions die and save a handful, simply on a whim? If such an entity does exist, then I’d rather not know him, thank you very much.
Why do people feel the need to attribute remarkable events to a god? This is, to my thinking, highly irrational. If someone said “Of course I saved those people with the power of my OT Postulates!” would that be any more believable to you?
When Ian Poulter got a hole-in-one at the 16th during the 2008 Masters, was that an act of God? As much as I might like to think that God is on the side of us Gooners, I wouldn’t think of suggesting that He had a hand in this. A high level of skill combined with a very good slice of luck worked in Poult’s favour that day.
And sometimes skill and luck have consequences that are much more far-reaching than winning a crystal bowl.
Axiom142
The Great Zorg
Gold Meritorious Patron
OK, you're joking, right?
If not,
you're trying to tell me that this Air Canada jet ran out of fuel at 30,000 feet halfway to it's destination, glided with no power for miles after both engines ran dry and stopped and made an unbelievable and almost impossible low altitude bank at the last minute to slow it down quick enough to be able to use the runway and not run off into the bushes beyond and explode a nearly normal landing? Then without front landing gear landed the jet on an abandoned military airstrip that was being used by drag racers on a camp out? Then while pulling off the absolute impossible, the jet careened to the left to avoid hitting campers to the right and two boys on their bicycles trying to outrun the crippling jet flying at them at over 200 mph nearly normal? Then only coming to a stop because the drag racing club had installed a low barrier that caught the jet after the pilot decided to use it and the then untried unbalancing of the rear landing wheel's brakes to force the sliding, scrapin, no power jet into the barrier to slow it down and not kill the two boys nearly normal? Then with all passengers unhurt, the emergency exit chutes were too high and passengers fell to the ground and only sustained minor injuries nearly normal? Then to find out that a circuit board in the jet's fuel monitoring system had failed and that the ground crew had put too little fuel in the jet nearly normal? Then, in multiple accident reconstructions in a simulator with different crews having each and every simulation end in a catastrophic crash nearly normal? http://<a href="http://www.youtube....ww.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJJLBmtNiOY</font></a>[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?...//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJJLBmtNiOY[/COLOR][/url]
Lucretia
Patron with Honors
I agree AngeloV.
Also, what kind of arsehole supreme being all round good guy sets the situation up in the first place, and then has to intervene to rescue all the poor passengers and pilot who have had the shit scared completely out of them?? Not the kind of god I'm interested in and one which has a serious character flaw I suggest.
Given the contradictions - omnipotent omnipresent omni... omni... omni... versus narcissistic megalomaniac, I humbly propose that there ain't no such thing as god, just a bloody good pilot who knows his/her stuff.
Auditor's Toad
Clear as Mud
OK, you're joking, right?
If not,
http://<a href="http://www.youtube....ww.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJJLBmtNiOY</font></a>[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?...//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJJLBmtNiOY[/COLOR][/url]
Strange stuff happens. How does that "prove" God exists? It doesn't.
The Great Zorg
Gold Meritorious Patron
OK, how strange does something have to be to prove that He does exist? :confused2:
What if we all have our alloted time. What if, through free choice, we do some little thing to alter that allotment? I don't know about the rest of you, but I can count about 6 times in my life that I came within a hair of dying and didn't, usually because of some bizarre little twist of fate or timing. :confused2:
Just sayin'.
Royal Prince Xenu
Trust the Psi Corps.
Faith is circular. Some people are 'connected' and live their lives without ever knowing it----we look at these people as being unusually lucky.
The rest of us have to put a little bit of 'Faith' out there and wait for the result, then we feel secure enough to put a bit more out and so it continues to grow. Remember, too, that Faith is not blind belief in 'doctrine'----that will get you nowhere.
There is an ever-growing list of all the little things that kept people late for work on the morning of 2001-09-11 and thus saved their lives. Statistically, how many people would have been late regardless? For the number of people who could have been in those buildings, the death toll was surprisingly low and, God or no-god, that is something for which we should all be grateful.
If a group of teenagers get the stupid idea into their heads to play "Hot Potato" with a live hand grenade, is it God's fault that one or two of them get killed and the remainder horribly injured?
Axiom142
Gold Meritorious Patron
Your argument is utterly fallacious.
Why does weird happening = God must exist? :confused2:
There is no logical connection between the two.
By your logic, if someone prays to God, asking to help him win the lottery, and then he does win, then this ‘proves’ that God must exist. Man prays, God answers affirmatively therefore God must exist. Simple.
But what about the other 20 million guys who also prayed but didn’t win?
Clearly, if enough people buy tickets, one of them (or more), sooner or later, is going to win. Simple law of probabilities. Doesn’t require the existence of a supernatural being.
If every plane that experienced a major equipment failure while in flight and which had some people on board who fervently prayed for deliverance from their Almighty, miraculously landed safely and every plane which was similarly afflicted but was populated by atheists, crashed killing all aboard – then that might justifiably be considered ‘evidence’ that a God does exist.
You have fallen into the common trap of having a pre-conceived opinion, seeing something that apparently supports it and proclaiming this to be conclusive evidence while at the same time ignoring any counter-arguments that might disprove your assertion.
Axiom142
The Great Zorg
Gold Meritorious Patron
I guess I have to step in here and comment on the obvious: I did NOT say that God intervened in the crashes, I said that a Higher Power did. Or make that Higher Powers. Some greater force than what we perceive on a daily basis.
I think I have run smack up against the residue of cult's programmed bullshit: "The Why Is God". Everyone remember that one? Hubbard and his evil, manipulating crock of horse shit of a "technology" that carried into every realm that would offer people hope and even understanding of the machinations of the spiritual universe?
Also, only a few can win the lottery. Why assume that a Higher Power intervened and allowed a special person to win it? Things such as this are normal. We know only 1 in 15 million will win the jackpot. If every one who prayed had their prayers answered, then the 'jackpot' would be worth $1.30, an we would all knowthen that God or Higher Powers anser every prayer with a YES. :confused2:
Don't put words in my mouth based on your idealized concept of no Higher Powers existing or that they never intervene in human affairs.
Also, "Why does weird happening = God must exist?" Then questioning you and your beliefs; why does weird happenings = God must NOT exist?
Virtually all of the replies here have been THERE IS NO GOD!!!
Some of you have even added little snips here and there. Well, believe what you want, there were too many "miracles" involved in the near disaster vids that I posted. Perhaps none of you have ever witnessed a miracle or divine intervention or the actions of Guardian Angels or Spirit Guides. That's OK, you do not have to believe in them; they still believe in you.I drove by that Air France jet in a ravine, smoldering, after it overshot the runway at 220 mph and ended up a ravine 200 feet away from the runway's end. I saw the huge tail fin of the jet and the smoke from the fires just beginning. I didn't see the people scrambling out of the jet (they were too far down the ravine and the angle from the 401 was to high) or I would have stopped. When I arrived home and saw that EVERY passenger survived!. Thank ( )! Well, sure, good piloting! But just ask yourselves when you consider this accident, just how much of what had happened do you attribute to "luck". It's that "luck" that I believe is a living, sentient higher power of some sort, intervening to some degree.
History is full of accounts of "miracles". I think that with our hidden programming of accepting, without choice, hubbards poison of 'The Why Is God' that we need to do some Faith (or lack of it) housecleaning. Maybe just a little.
:confused2:What a cold, desolate universe this must be for some to think that all that exists is only what we can see or prove with cold, hard evidence. Even so, what kind of spiritual detectives are we to selectively ignore the possible reasons for a million to one emergency landing to happen, without casualties? :confused2:
just sayin'.
Axiom142
Gold Meritorious Patron
I guess I have to step in here and comment on the obvious: I did NOT say that God intervened in the crashes, I said that a Higher Power did. Or make that Higher Powers. Some greater force than what we perceive on a daily basis.
Right, so you didn’t say that God did it, a ‘Higher Power’ did it.
So, pray tell, what exactly is the difference between God and a ‘Higher Power’? Aren’t the two rather synonymous?And, just for the record, this thread has the title “Now try and tell me there's no God!” and in post no. 4 you said,
That rather sounds like you are saying that God intervened.
Your reasoning appears rather muddled.
Ah yes, the old “You haven’t shaken off your cult programming” ploy. Well apart from being rather tired by now and totally irrelevant, it is totally ineffectual as a rebuttal as it does nothing to enhance your own argument and is a blatant attempt to discredit the other person, rather than their argument. Does the term 'ad hom' ring a bell? Isn’t this just the sort of tactic employed as a default by the cult?
Which is rather the point I was making - thank you for agreeing with me. But, haven’t you rather refuted your own position now?
I have no objection to you believing in God or ‘Higher Powers’, but I do object to your argument which I find to be poorly presented, lacking in any cohesive logical structure and spurious in its conclusions. I think that you can do much better.
As an aside, I don’t necessarily think that there is no God or no ‘Higher Powers’. My first post was merely answering your initial request to tell you that there was no God.
But my whole point was that the existence of supernatural forces is not proved by the examples of ‘miraculous’ events that you cited.
Axiom142
Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
There are times when I have had some distinct impressions that some other being or force was involved. But at the same time, I try not to have preconceived notions that it absolutely must be that way. It's just nice to be open to the idea.
Winston Smith
Flunked Scientology
Zorg, great vid, I am not getting at you, but the god thing tends to get on my goat, let me try to explain without trashing your genuine intent in posting this very positive vid. (It feels great when people escape serious injury or death).
Having been through too much tough stuff in my life and seen a lot of religious people (not just $ci) make a killing on the backs of skilled hard working people by peddling a lot of mumbo jumbo, throwing dice and sometimes comeing up with a fortuitous result and saying 'God' or the Guru made it happen, not the poor sod driving the bus, flying the plane or skippering the boat, to ascribe anything to this mystical force.
Well, I am not a believer in divine intervention, were I to believe in a god it would one who gave man the brains and capability to see himself right and then leave him to it.
I have watched a number of 'miraculous' landings, and have done some flight training in light planes (enough to know that I would be a crap pilot). I remain convinced that a well engineered craft flown by a highly trained competant pilot with a decent ground crew, will in most cases of retractable carraige failure, get the plane down without loss of life. A good pilot is trained and practiced in dealing with such emergencies and is constantly waiting for that one thing, that one piece of the intricate puzzle that describes modern airplanes, to go wrong. That is when all that flight and survival training kicks in.
This seems to an instance of these three factors being in place.
But, if I am wrong, and God was involved in getting the plane down safely, then I take my hat off to her and apologise to her for any unintended slight.
I feel sorry for you. The wonder of God is around us every day. What you say does not negate that fact. I will not go into my medical history here, but many know I should be dead a dozen times over. I'm not.
Winston Smith
Flunked Scientology
This line of argument is so easy to trash. But that never shakes those who have faith given them by adversity. We have become "too clever by half," in our "enlightened" world today. Go ahead, trash every word I write. It will not make what I write less valid.
All you who were duped by Scientology seem so certain there is no "God." I have observed this time and time again, and yet you at one time were utterly fooled by a demonstrably false "God." Man needs a spiritual life. Without it living becomes a meaningless exercise in "getting stuff."
All you who were duped by Scientology seem so certain there is no "God." I have observed this time and time again, and yet you at one time were utterly fooled by a demonstrably false "God." Man needs a spiritual life. Without it living becomes a meaningless exercise in "getting stuff."
The Great Zorg
Gold Meritorious Patron
Holy Shit! (no pun intended!) (no, really!)
Thanks Winston. Yes it is easy to trash, especially with those with no faith and especially especially those who have been programmed and indoctrinated who refuse to have faith because it may remind us of the pain we had to endure at the hands of a megalomaniacal , greedy occultist with no god other than money.
I like your words Winston. I almost always have. I struggle these days with the spiritual connection I was developing years ago. Sadly, I was still partially indoctrinated while trying to find my spot in the universe. Now, after recent multiple disasters in my life, I am confident that I can shake loose the indoctrination by negating it in it's entirety for the time being and once again pursue my innate spirituality and walk the path written for me. Oops! there I go again! Divine Guidance. How dare I????!!!!!
AXIOM: This is MY reality. Challenge that one! How long does it take to remove two years of indoctrination and 30 years of applying that indoctrination in every aspect of day-to-day living. If you're so special to have concluded what is clam and what is not clam in your mind then Kudos to you! Would you mind sharing exactly how you did that? :confused2:
Technically speaking, this entire paragraph is dookie dookie.
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