Progressive Tech after Scientology - Idenics

[Alanzo]

Gnosis -

I don't really understand the question.

 

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

That which is tragic?

Zinj

Right, LOL! As I used to hear a lot, "That can be handled in session." LOL!

 

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Here's a fairly non-complex write up of hypnotherapy: Wikipedia on Hypnotherapy

They mention James Braid, the physician who first coined the term "hypnosis". It's important to note that Braid realized that the term was not accurate, and he made a new word that he thought better described it. He called it "monoideaism". No one listened. To this day it's called "hypnosis", and everyone thinks it means a special kind of sleep, or a "degree of unconcsciousness" as Hubbard told you.

It's not.

Any person is fully awake and aware during "hypnosis". They are just concentrating on ONE IDEA or THING to the exclusion of other ideas or things.

The state of being "IN SESSION" in Scientology is a hypnotic state.

That's why Dianetics and Scientology auditing are rightly categorized as forms of hypnotherapy.

Find out more about hypnotherapy - it's strengths and its weaknesses.

That way you can become better informed consumers of hypnotherapies, unlike many practicing members of the Church of Scientology, and of the Freezone.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I have the idea that when I recall my whole track in full living perceptics I am in a higher degree of awareness than if I had recalled it while under hypnotic regression. I understand that one does not remember everything they recall during hypnotic regression. Is this correct? This is the reason I rejected hypnotheraphy for Scn auditing.

When you say "belief" are you talking about the placebo effect?

 

[The Oracle]

Gnosis,

You are 100% correct, for YOU.

You are on a plane of reason and able to know you were not operating under suggestion.

But there are many people who are always operating under hypnotic suggestion and have no self determinism whatsoever.

So these points cannot very well be debated.

What was a good dinner for you, could be some kind of dream for the person across the table from you. And possibly while you were eating for pleasure, the other was eating from some implant command and not even tasting the food.

 

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Hypnosis MU

Since the word "hypnosis', here, has been stretched out to mean almost anything, the question arises, what is NOT "hypnosis."

If remembering is hypnosis, if any act of mental concentration is hypnosis, if visualization is hypnosis, etc., then what is not hypnosis?

The problem with these discussions is that the word hypnosis has more than one definition, with not everyone agreeing about what the word means.

Hubbard denied *any* hypnosis in Dianetics or in Scientology, and insisted that people could really only be hypnotized with "pain and drugs," and now, it seems, that hypnosis has become the $64 word.

Yet, there are types and degrees of hypnosis, and not everyone (including professional hypnotists) agrees, regarding what the word means.

After a while, the emphasis on virtually anything being hypnosis, and the constant use of the word "hypnosis" (when other words might also be used) can be a bit oppressive.

Such as the person who insists that when someone drives a car, he or she must be in a hypnotized state.

"How was your hypnotic drive home?"

"Oh, OK. Wait a minute. I wasn't hypnotized when I was driving home."

"Yes you were. You were hypnotized"

"No I wasn't."

"Yes you were."

Etc.

LOL! I feel like "not-ising" the whole concept of hypnosis, that's how enlightening this topic has been for me, well, no, not completely.

Okay, thanks for getting me to the point where I am looking at it from the viewpoint of how could it be good?

Let me preface, I don't view Ron as "Source". Ron did mention a time where he hypnotized a young man after a session because he wanted him to be stable between sessions due to his particular home environment. As a temporary solution, okay, maybe.

My understanding of the canceller phrase in Dianetics was that some people were in a mild trance like state before they entered the session (too much tv?). Ron also mentioned that some people can be hypnotized (those who stayed?) and some cannot (those who left?). I had only one hypnotherapy session and the lady gave up on me. Though I did find that I could mock up.

I know some people who went exterior doing TR0. How is that hypnosis?

Ron never said that a person could ONLY be hypnotized with pain and drugs. He said PDH is one of the most solid sticking types of hypnosis.

Did you know that if you keep raising the emotional tone level .5 over and over again you can bring a person up the tone scale without their really being aware of it? Is that hypnosis? What if they are aware of it? Is that hypnosis?

I believe the emotional tone scale has a hypnotic range column and it makes sense to me that the lower the chronic emotion the more susceptible to hypnosis. Coincidentally, the weaker their personal integrity too, and their ability to spot a spiritual trap and walk away from it decreases.

What is hypnosis for one man might be consciousness of truth for another person.

 

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Since the word "hypnosis', here, has been stretched out to mean almost anything, the question arises, what is NOT "hypnosis."

If remembering is hypnosis, if any act of mental concentration is hypnosis, if visualization is hypnosis, etc., then what is not hypnosis?

The problem with these discussions is that the word hypnosis has more than one definition, with not everyone agreeing about what the word means.

Hubbard denied *any* hypnosis in Dianetics or in Scientology, and insisted that people could really only be hypnotized with "pain and drugs," and now, it seems, that hypnosis has become the $64 word.

Yet, there are types and degrees of hypnosis, and not everyone (including professional hypnotists) agrees, regarding what the word means.

After a while, the emphasis on virtually anything being hypnosis, and the constant use of the word "hypnosis" (when other words might also be used) can be a bit oppressive.

Such as the person who insists that when someone drives a car, he or she must be in a hypnotized state.

"How was your hypnotic drive home?"

"Oh, OK. Wait a minute. I wasn't hypnotized when I was driving home."

"Yes you were. You were hypnotized"

"No I wasn't."

"Yes you were."

Etc.

Gnosis,

You are 100% correct, for YOU.

You are on a plane of reason and able to know you were not operating under suggestion.

But there are many people who are always operating under hypnotic suggestion and have no self determinism whatsoever.

So these points cannot very well be debated.

What was a good dinner for you, could be some kind of dream for the person across the table from you. And possibly while you were eating for pleasure, the other was eating from some implant command and not even tasting the food.

Illusioness, I saw how you put the "you" in all caps so I figured I'd better hurry up and agree with you

I'm really enjoying discoursing from a plane of reason for a change. BTW, what do you think would be the next higher level above reason? Something sublime I hope.

 

[Alanzo]

Gnosis asked:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I have the idea that when I recall my whole track in full living perceptics I am in a higher degree of awareness than if I had recalled it while under hypnotic regression.

Why would that be?

I understand that one does not remember everything they recall during hypnotic regression. Is this correct?

Absolutely untrue for hypnotherapy sessions.

This is the reason I rejected hypnotheraphy for Scn auditing.

A person in a hypnotic trance is EXTREMELY AWARE of one thing. In fact they are in a very high state of heightened awareness ON THAT ONE THING. They are often more aware than any time in their life of that one thing.

But they are not in the same state of awareness of the general environment as you would be if you were walking down the street, looking both ways before you cross, window shopping, etc.

Can you see the difference between the two states?

In session, I'm sure you can remember a time where you were so IN SESSION that you didn't hear the auditor's next command. You were so IN THE INCIDENT, in such a heightened state of awareness on it, that there was something going on three feet in front of you and you were not aware of it.

That's the quality of the state of mind we are talking about when we are talking about a hypnotic state. Especially if the thing you are aware of is in your own mind.

It is an extremely aware and awake state, but it is extremely awake and aware of one thing.

That is the same state achieved in any hypno-therapy session. They are exactly the same. The "unconsciousness" that goes with hypnosis that Hubbard told you about does not exist. It is the same state of mind as any auditing session. In fact, Dianetics, as a process, was taken straight from Freud and Breuer.

Now here's the vulnerability of these states: While you are in this state of being extremely aware of one thing - to the exclusion of other things in your environment - sometimes those other things slip in from your environment and become internalized. It's not that you are in some increased state of unconsciousness, it's that you are DISTRACTED. If those things that slip in are positive commands like "You will be awake and aware and able to pull yourself out of anything" then they will act as positive suggestions.

That's the vulnerability of hypnotic states, whether achieved through Scientology auditing, or hypnotic regression.

The strengths and therapeutic value of hypnotic states lie in the fact that you become extremely aware of one thing - like the one incident you need to be extremely aware of to get "Case gain" - both in session and in hypno-therapy.

Is that clearer?

Ha! "Clearer" (snort)

When you say "belief" are you talking about the placebo effect?

I don't know the context to which you are referring here.

 

[The Oracle]

Gnosis wrote: "BTW, what do you think would be the next higher level above reason?"

My own viewpoint only: pure reason is very sterile and no game.

Nobody wants a world with pure reason and no game.

So once you reach that point you tie one hand behind your back and jump back into some abberated game.

The only truly reasonable game to play is to have fun. Why be in any game that doesn't give you pleasure? That makes no sense at all.

Some people derive pleasure in ways that are unreal to some of us, some people actually like to suffer and cause other's to suffer, everyone is actually having fun no matter how people try to deny it.

A lot of people just don't want to admit they are having fun in a way that may violate other's reality. Some people have fun being abusive. It's even fun to loose as every set back equals the possibility of a come back.

The highest source of reason is to just admit you are where you are who you are and as you are because you are having fun.

Once you have established reason there are only two things left to do:

1. Have fun and admit.

2. Not have fun and admit it.

The people who are making the world a better place admit what they are doing.

The people who are making the world worse do not admit what they are doing.

Above reason there is admitted magick.

One must have a grasp of pure reason to be skilled at magick because magick is pure mathematics relative to time and will.

Unless one has spilled into the future at some point, that means vacating the past and present timewise, one can not understand the basics of magick, because magick involves visiting the future and deciding what will be next in the present.

It's not the twilight zone, it's before the sunrise and given day nobody else has seen yet.

So, one must be free of any need for agreement and stand naked without applause in a sunless vacant place all alone and create all power and illusion without consent or license.

 

[Alanzo]

The Illusioness wrote:

One must have a grasp of pure reason to be skilled at magick because magick is pure mathematics relative to time and will.

Unless one has spilled into the future at some point, that means vacating the past and present timewise, one can not understand the basics of magick, because magick involves visiting the future and deciding what will be next in the present.

It's not the twilight zone, it's before the sunrise and given day nobody else has seen yet.

So, one must be free of any need for agreement and stand naked without applause in a sunless vacant place all alone and create all power and illusion without consent or license.

This is some interesting writing. I like it. But there's no way I could be a magickian. Why?

Right here: ..."stand naked without applause"

I'm sorry. I do not know what it is like to stand naked without applause. I know nothing but thunderous applause whenever I stand naked.

That was a joke.

But I liked the ideas you express here Illusioness.

Very interesting...

 

[Veda]

Gnosis wrote: "BTW, what do you think would be the next higher level above reason?"

My own viewpoint only: pure reason is very sterile and no game.

Nobody wants a world with pure reason and no game.

So once you reach that point you tie one hand behind your back and jump back into some abberated game.

The only truly reasonable game to play is to have fun. Why be in any game that doesn't give you pleasure? That makes no sense at all.

Some people derive pleasure in ways that are unreal to some of us, some people actually like to suffer and cause other's to suffer, everyone is actually having fun no matter how people try to deny it.

A lot of people just don't want to admit they are having fun in a way that may violate other's reality. Some people have fun being abusive. It's even fun to loose as every set back equals the possibility of a come back.

The highest source of reason is to just admit you are where you are who you are and as you are because you are having fun.

Once you have established reason there are only two things left to do:

1. Have fun and admit.

2. Not have fun and admit it.

The people who are making the world a better place admit what they are doing.

The people who are making the world worse do not admit what they are doing.

Above reason there is admitted magick.

One must have a grasp of pure reason to be skilled at magick because magick is pure mathematics relative to time and will.

Unless one has spilled into the future at some point, that means vacating the past and present timewise, one can not understand the basics of magick, because magick involves visiting the future and deciding what will be next in the present.

It's not the twilight zone, it's before the sunrise and given day nobody else has seen yet.

So, one must be free of any need for agreement and stand naked without applause in a sunless vacant place all alone and create all power and illusion without consent or license.

You're using the word "Magick," and not "Magic."

"Magick" with a "k" is usually regarded as being Crowleyan magic(k). Is that what you mean here? (Crowley added a "K" to his version of "Magic," to separate his version from traditional "Magic," which, according to Crowley, had come to be associated with "weaklings and dilettantes.")

May I ask, to what extent have you read the writings of Aleister Crowley?

It took me the better part of a year to dig up, read, and begin to fathom Crowley's writings, after I had, initially, come across a copy of 'The Book of the Law' in an Occult bookstore in 1978.

Have you read 'The Book of the Law'? For Crowleyites, it's their Bible.

 

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Magick

Gnosis wrote: "BTW, what do you think would be the next higher level above reason?"

My own viewpoint only: pure reason is very sterile and no game.

Nobody wants a world with pure reason and no game.

So once you reach that point you tie one hand behind your back and jump back into some abberated game.

The only truly reasonable game to play is to have fun. Why be in any game that doesn't give you pleasure? That makes no sense at all.

Some people derive pleasure in ways that are unreal to some of us, some people actually like to suffer and cause other's to suffer, everyone is actually having fun no matter how people try to deny it.

A lot of people just don't want to admit they are having fun in a way that may violate other's reality. Some people have fun being abusive. It's even fun to loose as every set back equals the possibility of a come back.

The highest source of reason is to just admit you are where you are who you are and as you are because you are having fun.

Once you have established reason there are only two things left to do:

1. Have fun and admit.

2. Not have fun and admit it.

The people who are making the world a better place admit what they are doing.

The people who are making the world worse do not admit what they are doing.

Above reason there is admitted magick.

One must have a grasp of pure reason to be skilled at magick because magick is pure mathematics relative to time and will.

Unless one has spilled into the future at some point, that means vacating the past and present timewise, one can not understand the basics of magick, because magick involves visiting the future and deciding what will be next in the present.

It's not the twilight zone, it's before the sunrise and given day nobody else has seen yet. [snipped]

I have yet to learn how to divide up the quotes.

Illusioness, there was poetry in your post.

"So, one must be free of any need for agreement and stand naked without applause in a sunless vacant place all alone and create all power and illusion without consent or license."

I once stood in that place, except I was not free of any need for agreement. I think I could improve on that.

To date I have successfully resisted learning about Magick or Hermetic Magic. Number one I would have to work hard on the mathematics component of magick. Number two, I've always thought that mocking up and postulating could be done without what I considered excessively complicated processes. Just my opinion and I'm putting it out to invite other viewpoints.

I always felt Crowley had a good teacher beingness though.

Could you please give me some examples of the application of High Magick?

 

[Veda]

LOL! I feel like "not-ising" the whole concept of hypnosis, that's how enlightening this topic has been for me, well, no, not completely.

Okay, thanks for getting me to the point where I am looking at it from the viewpoint of how could it be good?

Let me preface, I don't view Ron as "Source". Ron did mention a time where he hypnotized a young man after a session because he wanted him to be stable between sessions due to his particular home environment. As a temporary solution, okay, maybe.

My understanding of the canceller phrase in Dianetics was that some people were in a mild trance like state before they entered the session (too much tv?). Ron also mentioned that some people can be hypnotized (those who stayed?) and some cannot (those who left?). I had only one hypnotherapy session and the lady gave up on me. Though I did find that I could mock up.

I know some people who went exterior doing TR0. How is that hypnosis?

Ron never said that a person could ONLY be hypnotized with pain and drugs. He said PDH is one of the most solid sticking types of hypnosis.

Did you know that if you keep raising the emotional tone level .5 over and over again you can bring a person up the tone scale without their really being aware of it? Is that hypnosis? What if they are aware of it? Is that hypnosis?

I believe the emotional tone scale has a hypnotic range column and it makes sense to me that the lower the chronic emotion the more susceptible to hypnosis. Coincidentally, the weaker their personal integrity too, and their ability to spot a spiritual trap and walk away from it decreases.

What is hypnosis for one man might be consciousness of truth for another person.

We probably agree more than we disagree on the topic of the word, "hypnosis," but just to clarify, I used the word "really," in "can really only be hypnotized" (when referring to Hubbard) to mean "overwhelmingly."

Hubbard said and wrote many things on the subject of "hypnosis," and, IMO, he did have a hidden agenda having to do with manipulation and domination of others' thoughts. However, I also think it's a vast oversimplification when someone insists that all auditing is hypnosis.

Hubbard bounced around from telling Scientologists that he had "studied hypnotism in India," was a master of the art of hypnotism, could hypnotize entire rooms full of people virtually at the snap of a finger, all the way to minimizing hypnosis as ineffective, with "Pain Drug Hypnosis" being the only form of hypnosis to worry about.

Hubbard even told some people (in 1951) that his 2nd wife, Sara, had been "PDHed," although he, later (in 1969), re-created her (in a limited, confidential "Intelligence Tech" issue) as the Russian spy, "Sara Komkosadamanov."

And the therapeutic use of hypnosis is discounted by Hubbard, despite 1950-style Dianetics' use of what is generally recognized as (1940s-era) light hypnotic techniques.

The point is: Hubbard has a credibility problem generally, and that credibility problem extends to his words on the topic of "hypnosis."

In any event, since there are multiple definitions for the word, "hypnosis," it would be, I think, useful - particularly for those who tend to couch so much of human experience in terms of the words "hypnosis" or "hypnotic" - to list the range of these many definitions, *concisely* stated.

Otherwise, this discussion will go on forever, with no one knowing exactly what the other means.

 

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

We probably agree more than we disagree on the topic of the word, "hypnosis," but just to clarify, I used the word "really," in "can really only be hypnotized" (when referring to Hubbard) to mean "overwhelmingly."

I understand.

Hubbard said and wrote many things on the subject of "hypnosis," and, IMO, he did have a hidden agenda having to do with manipulation and domination of others' thoughts. However, I also think it's a vast oversimplification when someone insists that all auditing is hypnosis. True.

Hubbard bounced around from telling Scientologists that he had "studied hypnotism in India," was a master of the art of hypnotism, could hypnotize entire rooms full of people virtually at the snap of a finger, all the way to minimizing hypnosis as ineffective, with "Pain Drug Hypnosis" being the only form of hypnosis to worry about.

Hubbard even told some people (in 1951) that his 2nd wife, Sara, had been "PDHed," although he, later (in 1969), re-created her (in a limited, confidential "Intelligence Tech" issue) as the Russian spy, "Sara Komkosadamanov."

And the therapeutic use of hypnosis is discounted by Hubbard, despite 1950-style Dianetics' use of what is generally recognized as (1940s-era) light hypnotic techniques.

The point is: Hubbard has a credibility problem generally, and that credibility problem extends to his words on the topic of "hypnosis."

In any event, since there are multiple definitions for the word, "hypnosis," it would be, I think, useful - particularly for those who tend to couch so much of human experience in terms of the words "hypnosis" or "hypnotic" - to list the range of these many definitions, *concisely* stated.

Otherwise, this discussion will go on forever, with no one knowing exactly what the other means.

The discussion did get me to confront it and clear up the concepts of hypnosis and I'm ready to go on to other topics. Just one last question: in looking for eternal solutions (ex. auditing) vs temporary solutions (ex. mind drugs) could hypnosis be used for good as an eternal solution?

 

[namaste]

I don't recall the reference at the moment, but I remember Ron stating that one of the reasons that Auditing (recall) is preferred over hypnosis is that you are trying to As Is things to blow the charge and that when viewing things in a more aware state (auditing) you are able to blow more charge off as opposed to looking at the same things from an hypnotic state and not being being able to blow off as much charge because of viewing from a less aware state.
Don't really know myself as I am not familiar with hypnosis.
Think there's anything to that?

 

[Alanzo]

Hubbard said and wrote many things on the subject of "hypnosis," and, IMO, he did have a hidden agenda having to do with manipulation and domination of others' thoughts. However, I also think it's a vast oversimplification when someone insists that all auditing is hypnosis.

I'm not aware of anyone here who has said that "all auditing is hypnosis".

What has been said is that:

1. Auditing can be rightly categorized as a form of hypnotherapy

2. Many, maybe even most, auditing processes produce hypnotic states

These are different concepts than "All auditing is hypnosis"

Hubbard bounced around from telling Scientologists that he had "studied hypnotism in India," was a master of the art of hypnotism, could hypnotize entire rooms full of people virtually at the snap of a finger, all the way to minimizing hypnosis as ineffective, with "Pain Drug Hypnosis" being the only form of hypnosis to worry about.

Hubbard even told some people (in 1951) that his 2nd wife, Sara, had been "PDHed," although he, later (in 1969), re-created her (in a limited, confidential "Intelligence Tech" issue) as the Russian spy, "Sara Komkosadamanov."

And the therapeutic use of hypnosis is discounted by Hubbard, despite 1950-style Dianetics' use of what is generally recognized as (1940s-era) light hypnotic techniques.

The point is: Hubbard has a credibility problem generally, and that credibility problem extends to his words on the topic of "hypnosis."

Yes.

Thus the urgings to find out about hypnosis from sources other than L Ron Hubbard.

In any event, since there are multiple definitions for the word, "hypnosis," it would be, I think, useful - particularly for those who tend to couch so much of human experience in terms of the words "hypnosis" or "hypnotic" - to list the range of these many definitions, *concisely* stated.

Otherwise, this discussion will go on forever, with no one knowing exactly what the other means.

The first thing to do is isolate and intellectually quarantine Hubbard's definitions of hypnosis, while seeking out any other definition from anywhere else.

When you do that, you will find that many definitions have already been provided to you on this board, in this and other threads. You will begin to find lots of other information you can use to contrast and compare with what you know from Hubbard.

You can do a google search on the word, for instance.

And while I agree that it is important to precisely define the word so that we know what we are talking about (that's why I've tried my best to do it) there is something real in the human experience, even your own human experience, that the word is standing for.

What is it?

 

[The Oracle]

Gnosis,

About high magick, the best example of high magick I can think of would be Hubbard and his putting magick into the hands of the average man.

If he had called it magick, he would not have been able to disseminate it the way he did, and he would not have been able to put it into the hands of as many people.

But from my viewpoint, Scientology is a practice of magick and breaking black magick spells.

There is nothing in the final product that wasn't being practiced by the Gnostics thousands of years ago.

But that knowledge was edited from the texts early on.

Many of the Scientology symbols are Gnostic symbols.

I believe Hubbard was propelled by Jack Parsons and Crowley, but he certainly packaged it in a way that magick was no longer only to people in secret societies.

I think everyone in Scientology has been introduced to magick and has had the chance to practice it in a way that has been acceptable to them marketing wise.

Anyone who had read Crowley or Parsons or Claude M. Bristol would know that Hubbard did not stand alone in his theories. Not even with phsycometry.

When people attack the subject of Scientology they attack hundreds of writers and groups as far back as the Gnostics.

People come up with answers, as long as people can think and ponder they will come up with answers.

They will get attacked because there cannot be one answer for everybody here, there are too many people here from too many different places.

But there are plenty of people here that know about magick, even if it just because they know they have been the effect of it.

If you have eaten vegetables, you have been the effect of magick.

Put a seed in the dirt.

A flower appears.

Fruit appears from the flower.

That is magick.

 

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Gnosis,

About high magick, the best example of high magick I can think of would be Hubbard and his putting magick into the hands of the average man.

If he had called it magick, he would not have been able to disseminate it the way he did, and he would not have been able to put it into the hands of as many people.

But from my viewpoint, Scientology is a practice of magick and breaking black magick spells.

There is nothing in the final product that wasn't being practiced by the Gnostics thousands of years ago.

But that knowledge was edited from the texts early on.

Many of the Scientology symbols are Gnostic symbols.

I believe Hubbard was propelled by Jack Parsons and Crowley, but he certainly packaged it in a way that magick was no longer only to people in secret societies.

I think everyone in Scientology has been introduced to magick and has had the chance to practice it in a way that has been acceptable to them marketing wise.

Anyone who had read Crowley or Parsons or Claude M. Bristol would know that Hubbard did not stand alone in his theories. Not even with phsycometry.

When people attack the subject of Scientology they attack hundreds of writers and groups as far back as the Gnostics.

People come up with answers, as long as people can think and ponder they will come up with answers.

They will get attacked because there cannot be one answer for everybody here, there are too many people here from too many different places.

But there are plenty of people here that know about magick, even if it just because they know they have been the effect of it.

If you have eaten vegetables, you have been the effect of magick.

Put a seed in the dirt.

A flower appears.

Fruit appears from the flower.

That is magick.

Gawd, I love this forum! I printed your post to read more closely. I felt a lot of data doing somersaults while I read this and the questions are popping up and I want to digest this a bit more before I respond.

 

[Terril park]

From my website.

http://www.freewebs.com/techoutsidethecofs


This is a fascinating LRH quote from 1959. He decries the subservience of knowledge to special interests, and all the "now-I'm- supposed -toos" Guess he'd be a freezoner were he here.

PRINCIPLES OF SCIENTOLOGY

The fate of any piece of knowledge man has ever been able to learn about himself, his society or this universe has [been to] sooner or later become subservient to some special interest with a curve on it to make more slaves. And this is one time when as long as I’ve got words in my mouth and breath in my thetan - this is one time that curve isn’t going to happen. And that’s all I want your help in. We want to make sure that what we know never comes to serve some special interest for the subjugation of man.

All Dianetics and Scientology attempts to do is to undo the magic spell which has made people less than they want to be. And to do that it requires that some truth be known. And that the central and principal truths of man be know, merely as truths - not as pitches and curves to serve some different reason or purpose. And that information is its own best protector. If it is itself, if it is what is known, if it is what has been learned, then it undoes its own spells. And the only possible excuse we have for training anybody, for processing anybody is that Dianetics and Scientology will undo Dianetics and Scientology. And that’s the first time known in the history of man that a subject, if it ever curved down, could also go up - that a subject undid itself. And that would be true knowledge.

We must never let what we know get into a state whereby it itself is a tremendous numbers of 'now-I’m-supposed-tos.'

L.Ron Hubbard, c59118c, Final Lecture

 

[Alanzo]

Gnosis,

About high magick, the best example of high magick I can think of would be Hubbard and his putting magick into the hands of the average man.

If he had called it magick, he would not have been able to disseminate it the way he did, and he would not have been able to put it into the hands of as many people.

So you still believe that Hubbard was on a spiritual quest to enhance the lives of as many earthlings as he could.

You actually believe that?

But from my viewpoint, Scientology is a practice of magick and breaking black magick spells.

What about the prices for the magick services and the 100 million dollar estate Hubbard ended up with, while he had thousands of people working for him for free on indentured servitude contracts, with no retirement, and no healthcare?

How does that fit in with the expansive spiritual quest you mention above?

There is nothing in the final product that wasn't being practiced by the Gnostics thousands of years ago.

Really? I'm pretty familiar with the Nag Hammadi Library and what a lot of the Gnostics believed thousands of years ago.

What final product are you talking about that was being practiced by the Gnostics? One example, specifically, please?

But that knowledge was edited from the texts early on.

Really?

How do you know this?

Could you provide a specific reference or some evidence for your statement?

Many of the Scientology symbols are Gnostic symbols.

I believe Hubbard was propelled by Jack Parsons and Crowley, but he certainly packaged it in a way that magick was no longer only to people in secret societies.

I think everyone in Scientology has been introduced to magick and has had the chance to practice it in a way that has been acceptable to them marketing wise.

OK. I can hang with that.

Anyone who had read Crowley or Parsons or Claude M. Bristol would know that Hubbard did not stand alone in his theories. Not even with phsycometry.

When people attack the subject of Scientology they attack hundreds of writers and groups as far back as the Gnostics.

So when people attack Xenu, they are attacking Crowley and the Gnostics?

Did Xenu appear in Gnostic writings?

The only one I can think of is the Book of Enoch, but it's only close, not really that close at all. Do you have another example that is closer?

People come up with answers, as long as people can think and ponder they will come up with answers.

They will get attacked because there cannot be one answer for everybody here, there are too many people here from too many different places.

But there are plenty of people here that know about magick, even if it just because they know they have been the effect of it.

If you have eaten vegetables, you have been the effect of magick.

Put a seed in the dirt.

A flower appears.

Fruit appears from the flower.

That is magick.

I understand the points you are trying to make, but it's a little too flowery for me: A lot of generalities and historic realities mixed in with feel-good sentiments that come out with things that aren't what happened and never existed, from what I have seen.

The sentiments sure do feel good, though. But I learned a long time ago that "truth" doesn't necessarily always "feel good". In fact, someone said recently that if the truth hurts, it should.

So could you answer some of my questions above?

I think it's important to not let things slip by and pass for "truth" just because they are pretty or they feel good.

 

[The Oracle]

Geeze Alanzo,

Xenu! Gnostics hidden texts? Not that complex!

One only need to open the layman's book of the Jehovah's Witness to get a full briefing on the OT3 incident and it's effects.

No mention of Xenu figure though, they call BT's drujas:

From these web sites:

http://www.angelfire.com/in2/oahspe3/lika4.html

http://robertbayer.tripod.com/oahspequotations/id30.html

Chapter XX
1. During the fourth year of dawn, the Voice of Jehovih came to Lika, saying: My Son, thou shalt provide thyself an army sufficient, and thou shalt take away from the earth all angels below the first resurrection, save such fetals as are under the dominion of My heavenly rulers.
2. And thou shalt provide them separate regions in My lower heavens, whence they can not return to mortals. And thou shalt appoint rulers and teachers over them, to deliver them out of madness and evil and stupor.

3. Of thy etherean hosts shalt thou appoint teachers and rulers for this purpose; but at the end of dawn they shall give over their places to atmosphereans selected from Theovrahkistan.

4. From this time forth My atmosphereans shall begin to help one another, not depending for all teachers to come from My etherean heavens.

5. Lika then called up At'yesonitus and told him of Jehovih's words, and further added: To thee do I therefore allot this labor. And I give unto thee twelve generals, for the different regions of the earth; and unto each of the twelve I allot five million ethereans, whom thou canst draw from the armies that were engaged in delivering the hells and knots.

6. At'yesonitus said: In Jehovih's will and thine, I am pleased. I will divide up the regions of the earth amongst the twelve generals, and give unto each one of them the five millions, according to thy commandments.

7. At'yesonitus then sent officers out into different regions in atmospherea to select the sixty million deliverers, commanding them to report in Theovrahkistan, in the Valley of Tish, his heavenly place, whither he took the twelve generals that Lika had assigned him.

8. Lika gave to At'yesonitus a list of the spirits to be thus taken away from mortals, that is, the engrafted, the damons, the familiars, the vampires and the lusters, and such other spirits as otherwise lead mortals into darkness and crime; showing him the regions of the earth where they were most numerous. With which list At'yesonitus and his generals made themselves well acquainted before starting on his perilous enterprise.

9. At'yesonitus then ordered the ship-builders to provide him twelve thousand fire-boats, with bulwarks of fire, and with gateways.

10. In the meantime Lika sent Yussamis with four hundred geographers and mathematicians and surveyors to find the necessary plateau to which At'yesonitus could send his captured hosts.

11. Yussamis therefore founded the six heavenly plateaux known as the Ugsadisspe, a name signifying the Heaven of the Destroying Serpents.

12. These, then, were the six heavens of Ugsadisspe, to wit: Tewallawalla, over Arabin'ya, one thousand two hundred miles high; Setee'song, over Vind'yu, one thousand miles high; Go'e'dhi, over Jaffeth, one thousand one hundred miles high; Ellapube, over Uropa, one thousand miles high; Apak, over North and South Guatama, six hundred miles high, and bordering on Yaton'te, the subjective heaven of the ancients, which was now being re-established by Kaparos; and Fue, over Chihuahi, nine thousand miles high.

13. Yussamis provided these heavens with no roadways, in order to prevent the delivered spirits flocking together, in which case they might run into anarchy (hells). And, accordingly, appointed unto each of these heavens one ruler of the rank primal God, selecting them from the etherean hosts, but empowering them to bestow their thrones on successors at the end of dawn, giving terms of office not less than two hundred years, but subject to the limiting power of God of Theovrahkistan.

14. Lika gave four thousand messengers to At'yesonitus, and twelve thousand messengers to Yussamis, to whom he also gave sixty million laborers. But each of them provided their own heralds, musicians, marshals and captains in their own way.

15. Now, therefore, At'yesonitus and Yussamis, receiving their armies of laborers, fell to work, the former to delivering, and the latter to receiving the drujas of the earth. And Yussamis put his hosts to building houses and hospitals, heavenly places, and to founding cities and provinces through the primal Gods under him.

Chapter XXI
1. Jehovih had said: All angels below the first resurrection, save infants, shall be known in heaven and on earth as drujas, for they are such as have not capacity in knowledge or strength of individuality.
2. As there are on earth paupers and vagrants and beggars and criminals who are druks, so are there, in hada, spirits that are a great trial to both mortals and angels.

3. And they inhabit mortals and the houses that mortals dwell in. Some mortals have one or two of them; some a score; and some have hundreds of them. Some of them continue to inhabit mortal dwellings long after mortals have abandoned them, even till they fall in ruins. And whoso cometh into such house, the drujas come upon him to live on him and with him.

4. And if a mortal have greater wisdom and strength of soul than the drujas, he ruleth over them, to a good purpose, reforming them and raising them up out of darkness and helplessness.

5. But if the drujas have greater power than the mortal, then they pull him down in darkness, making of him a man to lust after the affairs of earth. Sometimes they help man to riches and great power; and if he have sons and daughters who are brought up in idleness and ease and luxury, then the drujas fasten upon them, leading them in their own way, of lust and debauchery, or hard-heartedness.

6. The flesh-eater is their delight; and the drunkard their great joy. The man of riches, and kings, and generals, and fighting men, and harlots, and soldiers, are great treasures to them. And all manner of intoxicating things, that mortals delight in, are great feasts and rejoicings to them. The priest and the preacher who live in ease and luxury, performing showy rites and entertainments, are as great harvests for them to revel with.

7. On some occasion the drujas rule over their mortal, and his neighbors call him mad, and they send him to a mad-house, which is to them a city of delight. When mortals engage in war, slaying one another, the drujas have great merriment, taking part, by inspiring the mortals into the conflict.

8. The pleader (lawyer) is a favorite to them, for his vocation bringeth them in the midst of contention and craft and lying; he is to them a fortunate habitation.

9. The magician that worketh miracles and tricks is their favorite, for with him and through him, they can make themselves manifest. And when they show themselves, and are questioned as to who they are, they answer to any name that will please or flatter, even at times pretending to be Gods and Saviors!

10. The tattling woman that talketh of her neighbors is a good home for drujas; and if the woman be given to talk evil, they are rejoiced beyond measure. The man that is a great boaster, and liar, and slanderer, is a choice house for them to dwell in.

11. The cheater and defrauder, the miser and the spendthrift, the curser of Jehovih, the curser of the Gods, is like a citadel for them to inhabit.

12. They go not, for the most part, away from the mortal they inhabit whilst he liveth; nay, they have not wisdom or strength to go more than one length away. Some of them have strength to go to a neighbor or to a neighbor's house. And if a mortal curse his neighbor to die, then such drujas as can go to that neighbor, seek out some poisonous infection and inoculate him to death, which is called casting spells.

13. Nay, there is nothing too low or foul for them; and for the most part they are but idiots, and deranged imbeciles, answering to any name or request like a man who is drunk, one so very drunk that he knoweth not and careth not.

14. A large city full of crime and debauchery, and rich and fashionable people, and people of evil habits, suiteth them better than a country place.

15. Drujas dwell as numerously among the rich and fashionable as amongst the poor; they fill the bawdy-house and the temples of the idolators; a court of justice full of pleaders (lawyers) and criminals is their delightful resort, but a battle in war is a sweet amusement to them.

16. A laboring man that is good and honest is of little value to them, save he be a gross feeder or drinker of intoxicating wines.

17. A man that marrieth a rich, lazy woman, receiveth with his wife a hundred drujas, or more.

18. A woman that marrieth a rich, lazy man, or a gambler, receiveth with her husband a hundred drujas, or more.

19. Drujas rule over mortals more than mortals rule over them. It was because of their abundance and their power to do evil, that Jehovih commanded His chosen to marry amongst themselves; and to withdraw from other peoples, and make themselves a separate and exclusive people, that they might not be inhabited with drujas.

20. When a mortal dieth, and he had dominion over his drujas, not only his spirit will rise to the first resurrection, but his drujas also, whereupon they are all delivered into light.

21. When a mortal dieth, and his drujas had dominion over him, then his spirit becometh a druj also, and he becometh one with them, fastening on whoso cometh in the way; but if it be in a house and no mortal cometh, upon whom they can fasten, then they remain in that house. And here they may remain a year or ten years or a hundred years, in darkness, knowing nothing, doing nothing, until other angels come and deliver them, which is often no easy matter, requiring bodily force to carry them away.

22. Jehovih gave certain signs unto both angels and mortals, whereby it shall be known both on earth and in heaven which is master over the other, a mortal or his drujas, and, consequently, such matter determineth to what place the spirit of a man will most readily fall after death.

23. If the mortal can not control his habit for intoxication, or gluttony, or avarice, or debauchery, or laziness, or lying, or hypocrisy, preaching what he practiceth not, or sexual indulgence, or vengeance, or anger, or tattling mischievously, then is he, indeed, a victim in the hands of drujas, and at the time of his death, he becometh one with them.

24. For if he have not power to rule in such matters whilst he is in the mortal world, he will be no stronger by the loss of his corporeal body.

25. If the mortal, on the other hand, shall have risen to control himself over these habits and desires, then will he be indeed, at the time of death, already entered into the first resurrection; and the drujas, if he have any, will be delivered also.

26. And not the words and professions of either mortals or drujas, nor their prayers, nor religious rites and ceremonies are of any value unto them; but by the works and behavior of mortals are all things known and proven.

27. So that Jehovih's high-raised Gods but need pass over a corporeal city once, to determine whether it be in resurrection or declension. And such Gods put their angel laborers to work, sorting them as a mortal would his cattle.

28. And if a city be badly cast in drujas, dragging mortals down to destruction spiritually; then the angels inspire such mortals as are in the way of resurrection to move out of the city, and after that they cast the city in fire and burn it down.

29. And whilst it is burning, and the drujas distracted with the show, the angels of power come upon them and carry them off, hundreds of millions of them. And the mortals are thus cleared of them that would have bound them in darkness and death.

30. In this matter the infidel curseth Jehovih because the houses are burned, for he judgeth matters by the things his soul was set upon. He saith: What a foolish God! How wicked to burn a city.

31. For he understandeth not that all things are Jehovih's; and that His Gods under him work not for man's earthly aggrandizement, which is the curse of his spirit, but they work for his spiritual resurrection in their own way, according to the Father's light in them.

32. To accomplish the resurrection of the drujas dwelling with mortals on the earth, had Lika, Son of Jehovih, appointed At'yesonitus, with his twelve generals, very Gods in wisdom and power, each one to a certain division of the earth.

Chapter XXII
1. Jehovih spake to Lika, saying: These are My ways; reveal thou Me unto them. They that know Me not, shall be made to know Me; My labors shall rise up before them, and their understanding shall be opened.
2. They shall know what I mean when I say I will destroy or I will build up. I have heard man in his vanity, that judgeth Me. His eyes are on the earth only, and in houses and riches. Because I take them away from him, he complaineth against Me.

3. I gave man an example in his own child that delighteth in sweets, and idleness, and vain pleasures. Man taketh these from his child, saying: Behold, they are not good for thee, save in great temperance!

4. Wherein have I injured thee, O man? Wherein destroyed I aught that contributed to thy spirit? Wherein have I suffered destruction to come upon thee, whilst thou followedst My commandments? Why shalt thou complain because I laid great cities in ashes? Sawest thou the millions of drujas thou wert holding down in darkness by thy evil habits?

5. I am not in anger, nor pull I down, nor burn I up any place in a passion. As thou goest forth to destroy a row of houses to stay a great conflagration, shall the people murmur? For thy hand is stretched forth to do a good work for the whole city.

6. My heavens are magnified cities, and when a mortal wing offendeth, behold, I clip it short. They are all Mine; and none can question My authority with Mine own, which I wield for the resurrection of the whole.

7. Thou hast wept because of the destruction of the books of great learning of the ancients; but thou knowest not thine own words. Saw I not, O man, that thou wouldst never wean thyself from the doctrines of the dark ages if the books of great learning were not destroyed!

8. In all ages of the world thou hast been bound to the ancients; thou art forever searching backward for wisdom; and to the angels of the dead who pretend to be ancients. I behold the latter, and that they are drujas.

9. I send wise angels down to them to deliver them out of darkness. And they come and bear the drujas away from thee, for thine own good and theirs. My wise angels suffer mortals to burn up the books of the ancients; for I command them to make thee open thine understanding to the living present.

10. Jehovih spake to At'yesonitus, and through him to the twelve Gods of deliverance, saying:

11. Go forth, My son, in wisdom and power. Thy labor requireth great strength and strategems. For thou shalt find the drujas fast bound to mortals and to mortal habitations (houses). As a drowning man clingeth to a log, so cling the drujas to mortals. As a delirious man, mad with drunkenness, flieth in fear from his best friends, so will the drujas fly from thee, and thy hosts who shall attempt to deliver them.

12. They will inspire their mortals to dread an innovation of the ancient doctrines. Yea, the twain, not knowing it, will bind themselves together with great tenacity.

13. But thou shalt deliver them apart nevertheless, by stratagem, or persuasion, or with a strong hand. And when thou hast them separate, thou shalt surround the drujas with flames of fire, and carry them off to the boats, which are bulwarked with fire. And thou shalt deliver them in the places My Son, Yussamis, hath ready prepared for them.

14. Thou shalt not only deliver the drujas, but cause mortals to hate them.

15. Mortal kings shall issue edicts against magicians and prophets and seers and priests; and the consultation of spirits shall come to an end. And man on the earth shall turn to his own soul, which is My light within him, and he shall cultivate it and learn to think for himself.

16. At'yesonitus prepared a record to give to mortals, and it was by inspiration so given. And the nature of the record was to teach mortals to be guarded against drujas, and know who was afflicted with them.

17. This, then, that followeth is said record, even as it standeth to this day in the libraries of heaven, to wit:

18. The man that saith: I pity my neighbors, they are surrounded with drujas!

19. The man that saith: Fools only believe in obsession!

20. The man that saith: There is no All Person!

21. The man that saith: My way is wisdom; thine is wicked!

22. The man that saith: Let no one dictate to me! I will have nothing but liberty to the uttermost!

23. The man that saith: As the priest thinketh, so do I!

24. The man that saith: That thou hadst my knowledge!

25. The man that saith: The ancients were wiser than we!

26. The man that saith: The ancients were fools!

27. The man that saith: Whoso seeth not as I do is a heathen!

28. The man that saith: Whoso worshippeth not my God is wicked!

29. The man that saith: Wisdom is book-learning!

30. The man that saith: There is no wisdom in books!

31. The man that saith: My book is sacred; it containeth the sum of all revelation and inspiration!

32. The man that saith: There is no inspiration, nor words thereof!

33. The followers of the ancients only.

34. He who will have nothing to do with the ancients.

35. He who ignoreth rites and ceremonies and prayers.

36. He who dependeth on rites and ceremonies and prayers.

37. Whoso denieth the Ever Present Person.

38. Whoso followeth the counsel of angels or men.

39. Whoso will not learn from the counsel of men and angels.

40. Whoso feeleth prayers and confessions to be good for others, but not necessary for himself.

41. Or saith: I will lead and supervise; be thou my servant!

42. Or saith: Behold my rights!

43. Or: Behold my earnings!

44. Or: Behold my possessions!

45. Or talketh of himself and his experiences.

46. Or tattleth of others.

47. Or judgeth his brother, or criticiseth him.

48. The self-righteous, who saith: Behold me, I am holy!

49. Or who desireth not new light, or saith: The old is good enough!

50. Whoso laboreth for himself only.

51. Whoso laboreth not for others in his wisdom and strength.

52. That seeketh his own ease.

53. That considereth not others' welfare more than his own.

54. The hypocrite preaching one way and practicing another.

55. That speaketh not openly his doctrines, lest his words profit not his earthly means and associations.

56. At'yesonitus said: For these are all as much under the bondage of drujas as is the drunkard, or harlot, or murderer. And after death their spirits float into the same hada of darkness.

Chapter XXIII
1. When At-yesonitus' generals and their hosts went through Vind'yu and Jaffeth and Arabin'ya, they concerted with the Gods who had in charge the inspiration of Capilya, Moses and Chine. And not only did the angel generals remove the drujas from mortals, but inspired mortal kings and queens in those great divisions of the earth to issue edicts against magicians and priests who consulted with spirits.
2. Jehovih had said: It shall be a testimony in the latter days unto the inhabitants of the earth of My proceedings; not with one division of the earth only, but with all places. For they shall in after years search history and find that in the same era in these three great divisions of the earth the kings and queens issued edicts against spirit communion. And this fact shall be testimony of My cycle of Bon; wherein man shall understand that I come not in one corner of the earth only, and to one people only; but that I have them all in My charge, as a Father that knoweth his own children.

3. Neither give I unto them the same aspirations; for one I send westward to circumscribe the earth; one I build up with a multitude of languages, and a multitude of Gods; and the third one I build up without any God save Myself. And they shall understand that where there are many languages there are many Gods worshipped; where there is one language, there is only One worshipped, even I, the Great Spirit.

4. For in kosmon I will bring them together; and these diversities shall be as a key to unlock the doctrines and languages of times and seasons long past.

5. Man living away from other men becometh conceited in himself, deploring the darkness of others, and great nations become conceited of themselves and their doctrines.

6. Each one of the great peoples saying: Behold yonder barbarians! I was the chosen in His especial care. Those others are only heathens, and have not been worthy of the Great Spirit's concern.

7. But in this day I plant the seed of My testimony, which shall come up and blossom and bear fruit in three thousand years.

8. At'yesonitus and his generals, with their millions of angel hosts, cleared off the drujas of the earth, the angels of darkness. They extended east and west and north and south, around all the earth, in all the divisions thereof, into every nook and corner.

9. Day and night At'yesonitus and his armies labored, ceased not nor rested, but in good method went right on, filling all the lowest place of heaven with their transport boats of fire.

10. And the boats sped hither and yonder without ceasing, loaded in their ascent with the screaming, frightened drujas, all under guard, and duly preserved against accident or harm by the wise angels over them.

11. Some drujas were easily captured and carried away; some weak, helpless and harmless; but hundreds of millions of them mad, and most desperate; some evil, fearful in desperate oaths, and foul talk, and dangerous withal.

12. But others were most pitiful in their love to linger with their mortal kindred; mothers, whose children dwelt on the earth; and children spirits, whose mothers dwelt on the earth. To separate them and carry away such drujas was a most heart-rending task, requiring God-like souls to accomplish it.

13. Jehovih had said: As a mortal mother will cling to the mortal body of her dead child, till her friends must tear them apart, the while all souls who look on are broken-hearted because of her love, even such is the bond betwixt the spirit of the dead and the mortal yet left behind.

14. But when My wise angels look upon them, and perceive they are carrying each other down in darkness, then shall they be torn asunder; and the spirit shall be taken away and provided for ultimate resurrection, and only permitted to visit the mortal kin under due guardianship.

15. On the battle-fields of the earth were hundreds of millions of spirits in chaos, still fighting imaginary battles, not knowing their bodies were dead; knowing naught but to curse and fight; roving over the battle-fields, and would not away, save by capture and being carried off.

16. Thus did At-yesonitus and his mighty hosts clear the earth. But of their great labors and wonderful adventures a thousand books might be written, and thousands of heroes singled out, whose great achievements overwhelm one's belief because of the manifested love and power.

17. And yet not much less were the labors and adventures of Yussamis in Ugadisspe and her six heavenly places, where his etherean hosts labored unceasingly, preparing places, and keepers, and nurses, and physicians, and teachers for the delivered drujas, the thousands of millions.

18. Jehovih said unto Yussamis: Thou shalt assort the drujas; the peaceful to themselves; the dumb to themselves; the mad, the chaotic, and all other of My afflicted ones; provided sections and places for them. And teachers and nurses and physicians; for they shall be delivered out of darkness also. Yea, every one of them shall become as a star of glory in heaven.

19. And Yussamis and his Gods developed the six heavens of Ugadisspe; established places for the tens of millions of drujas; and provided order and discipline, and altars of worship, and schools, and colleges, and factories, and all things whatsoever required in a primary heaven.

Chapter XXIV
1. Jehovih spake to Lika, saying: Behold, the end of dawn draweth near; go thou once more around about the earth and her heavens, and examine into the labor of thy Gods. And thou shalt take with thee thy Rapon hosts, and a sufficient number of heralds and attendants, and such musicians and messengers as thou desirest.
2. And when thou art come to Yaton'te, My subjective heaven, thou shalt halt a while with Kaparos, and re-establish it in greater holiness and efficiency. For this is Mine only subjective heaven in the regions of the red star.

3. Behold, the spirits of those that die in infancy call out to Me, saying: Tell us, O Thou Creator, how is it with the earth? How is it with mortals who dwell on the earth? What do they toil at? Have they schools and hospitals and factories, like unto ours? Have mortals mishaps and trials? And have they roadways, and oceans of water on the hard earth?

4. How can these things be, O Jehovih? Why is it that mortals can not go down into the earth and into the bottoms of their oceans, even as we do in the heavens?

5. How didst Thou create us alive in the earth? What was the place like? Why do mortals carry around with them such earth-houses (bodies)? Can not they go in them and out of them at pleasure?

6. What do mortals mean, O Jehovih, by mortal life and mortal death? Doth the clay and stone and water they dwell in (the earth body) have life and death? What do they mean by: This is mine and That is thine?

7. Shall every one retain his own body? How do the earth bodies grow? Do they eat clay and stone? And water? Where do they get their blood? And do they eat hair, that they may have earth hair?

8. Why is it that they bring not up their bodies with them when they are dead? Wear they clothes over the spirit body only, or over the earth body also?

9. Great are Thy works, O Jehovih! Take me to Yaton'te, Thy great subjective heaven. We would learn by figures in pantomime the illustrations of the earth. We would learn by Thy panoramic heaven what mortals do? How they live and what their schools are like? How they have contrived to teach the corporeal senses by corporeal things? How their boats are made and propelled; how their vehicles travel along upon the solid earth.

10. Jehovih said: For which reason, O Lika, thou shalt see to it that Yaton'te be perfected unto this instruction, as well as to arouse from stupor the spirits of the dead who desire not to raise up from the earth.

11. Lika told the Rapon hosts Jehovih's words; and he also gave command to his chief marshal to provide the necessary otevan with officers, heralds, musicians and messengers.

12. Accordingly, as soon as all things were in readiness, Lika committed the throne of Jehovih, in Theovrahkistan, to his vice-God; and Lika and the Rapons, with their attendant hosts, departed on their journey.

13. Now, since the time of Lika in the plateau of Theovrahkistan, it had become habited by thousands of millions of angels, and they were high in the grades.

14. So that the officers of selection were already preparing them by the millions for Brides and Bridegrooms to Jehovih. And there were thousands of heavenly cities besides Yogannaqactra, which were now in beauty, gaiety, refinement and delight, with music, and rites and ceremonies most magnificent.

15. Then there were officers over these officers, whose place it was to sort and arrange the inhabitants of cities; and others over these for each one hundred and forty-four cities; and yet another over these officers, and he was called Marshal of Theovrahkistan. And he was of the same rank as the marshals of the hosts of Lika, conferring with the Marshal in Chief of Jehovih's Throne.

Chapter XXV
1. Jehovih said to Lika: Finish thy visit and thy inspection, My Son, in all the places of hada on the earth, leaving the land of Jaffeth to the last. And thou shalt go thither, at the time of Chine's resurrection, and descend with thy ship and take him up from the earth.
2. And thou shalt bring him with thee to Yogannaqactra, where he shall remain the few days that dawn remaineth; and when thy hosts ascend to etherea thou shalt take Chine with thee and make thy home his home until such time as he may be taught the ways and powers of the higher heavens.

3. For since his corporeal life is a sacrifice for the resurrection of men, he shall receive especial care and assistance in heaven.

4. Lika had been previously informed by the God of Chine as to the time Chine would die, and be burnt up, with his ashes scattered to the four winds; and the re-gathering up of a corporeal form of Chine, and the seven days' duration thereof. So Lika shaped the course of his otevan, according to the instruction of his messengers, who had been appointed for that purpose, so that he should reach the field in time to raise up Chine before the multitude.

5. The God of Chine had prophesied to mortals through his ward that a fire-ship would descend from heaven on a given day, and take Chine up to heaven.

6. Accordingly a great multitude of mortals were assembled in the ash-field, where they cast the ashes of the dead, watching for the heavenly ship.

7. Of which matters Lika had been previously informed by his messengers; and Lika had in turn informed the God of Chine the time he would appear with the ship, that he might cause Chine to walk in the midst of the field and so be caught up.

8. And all these matters were carried out to the hour and minute, in the hands of these great Gods. And Lika caused the fire of the ship to be made visible to mortals. And the size of the ship was ten times larger than the field of the dead, so that when the people beheld the light of the ship they feared and trembled, and many of them fell down bewailing that the world was coming to an end.

9. And God caused Chine to walk out in the field, and Lika sent down a whirlwind and took him up into the ship, in presence of tens of thousands of mortals assembled.

10. And Lika bore his course now for Yogannaqactra, for the end of the dawn of Bon was at hand.

Chapter XXVI
1. Lika sent messengers to all his Gods and Lords, to install their successors, and to bestow them; after which the Gods and Lords were to report in Theovrahkistan ready for the cyclic resurrection. And he commanded them to bring their etherean hosts with them, save such as chose to volunteer to remain the next dan of two hundred years.
2. Lika had previously sent word by his swift messengers to etherea, to Lissa, Goddess of Teannakak, in etherea, next to Howgil. And he said unto Lissa: My resurrection will be eight links, each one equal to eight thousand million Brides and Bridegrooms. Send thou a cowppon to deliver them.

3. Lissa sent word back to Lika, saying: O Jehovih, I am delighted with the command of Thy Son, Lika, Chief of Vetta'puissa! I will deliver the chain of cowppon.

4. Then Lissa gave her commands in Teannakak, to have her builders construct the cowppon; and she also set her officers to work selecting such hosts as she would need for her great undertaking. For she had been notified in sufficient time; for it was a matter of great magnitude even in etherean realms.

5. And so perfectly were Lissa's commands carried out, that not one day's time too much or too little was wide the mark. And then she embarked with her hosts for the red star, the earth, with her thousand million trained resurrectionists; on her long journey, twenty thousand million miles!

6. Jehovih had said: Carry far My Brides and Bridegrooms; make them know the magnificence of the heavens I have created. House them not together in a small corner. Let them feast their souls on the splendors of My great heavens!

7. In the meantime Lika and his Hosts in Theovrahkistan were getting ready for the ceremonies and for the ascension.

8. The Gods, with their hosts, were now coming in from every quarter of the lower heavens, bringing in their harvests and quartering them in the places allotted by the marshals.

9. Most conspicuous and beloved of all was Ahura. Next to him were the five true Gods: Inane, Injek, Inlay, Inoal and Inyith, with their heavenly hosts restored to them; for it was through these five Gods that the three mortals, Capilya, Moses and Chine, had delivered the Faithists of Vind'yu, Jaffeth and Arabin'ya. These five Gods had in five years changed the mortal dominions and laws of Vind'yu and Jaffeth, and sent four million Faithists on a westward journey round the earth; and had firmly established the All One in the four great divisions of the earth, and had delivered from bondage all the Faithists on the face of the earth.

10. Great also was the work accomplished by At'yesonitus, and by Yussamis; and by the Gods that had delivered the hells and the knots; and by many others. So good and great were the works of them all, that a history of any one of them in the five years' labor, would make a book that a man could not read in a life-time.

11. And they had left successors to carry out what they had founded; so that all the lower heavens were in order, system and discipline, such as had not been for two thousand years.

12. The drujas of the earth were removed away from mortals; the battle-fields of the earth were cleared of the chaotic spirits slain in wars.

13. So that the whole earth and her heavens were delivered into a new condition, in the way and form of Jehovih's light.

14. And this was the Arc of Deliverance in Bon.

15. Then descended Lissa with her chain of cowppon; with her ships of fire stretched wide as the earth. And the hosts of Theovrahkistan, the Brides and Bridegrooms, sixty-four thousand million Sons and Daughters of Jehovih, stood, waiting, watching, nervous, but filled with inexpressible delight.

16. And they saw the cowppon coming; knew the mission of the mighty Goddess, Lissa, Daughter of Jehovih!

17. Arrayed in spotless white, the sixty-four thousand millions stood; shuddered at the etheric current, the whirlwind of the higher heavens, stood the exalted affianced of Great Jehovih!

18. Nearer and nearer came the mighty sea of etherean fire; and nearer, till it landed at the plateau of Theovrahkistan.

19. Then came forth Lissa, saluting; and, being answered by great Lika, Jehovih's Son, proceeded before Jehovih's throne.

20. Then Lissa demanded in the usual form, why she had been summoned in Jehovih's name. Lika also answered in the usual form: To bestow Jehovih's affianced Sons and Daughters.

21. After this, each of the five Gods of the earth took their hosts and bequeathed them to Jehovih, through Lissa, His Daughter.

22. But so great and grand were the ceremonies that mortal words cannot describe them. And as for the awe and magnificence, together with the music, could they be described to mortals, understandingly, they scarce could live, because of the enchantment.

23. But there is a time, and a limit, and an end to all such matters; and so there was to the labor of Lika, Son of Jehovih. The hosts were wed, and they marched aboard the great etherean ships, the cowppon. Lika and his hosts went into his own airavagna. And, as it were, with a thread light, he made fast to the cowppon, and gave the word, the command to go.

24. Then raised up the mighty seas of fire, the eight-linked cowppon and the airavagna! Slowly, steadily moving onward, upward, higher and higher, faster and faster, and still higher. And thus departed Lika with his thousands of millions of upraised Sons and Daughters of Jehovih. And thus ended the dawn of Bon.


End of Book of Lika, Son of Jehovih.


Plate 21.--THE EARTH IN THE ARC OF BON

Showing the es'ean position of the earth in the time of Capilya, Moses and Chine. Jehovih said: The time of My Arc of Bon shall be four hundred years. And it was so. And at the termination of that period, behold, the earth went into a dark region, and the Israelites, Brahmins and Zarathustrians forsook the higher light, Jehovih, and established kings and rulers, like other nations.


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Continued

Index to Oahspe