Project to put Miscavige behind bars!

[The Oracle]

The only way to get rid of DM is to be one hell of an OT, go to LA, step in the RTC building and people will welcome you and kick him out. No legal wog system needed. I plan to do just this. Unless he calls me and handles me the hat of Commodore.

Anyone think I'm off my pin?

Honey, even Hubbard couldn't take the hat of commodore. The Church was sold to DM for approx 450 million dollars (finance police rounded that up from the mission accounts as they closed out the missions). It's legally owned by someone. You could make an offer pricewise. DM has given the nod to several "other practices" to practice without being disturbed. He gave the O.K. to operate TIR, and in case you haven't noticed, subjects like Avatar have been in business for a long time without interference.

I think if we want to get rid of DM we will have to pass around a collection plate and make him an offer financially, to get him to leave.

Can you imagine? People could pay into the trust account like via pay pal. Donors would be kept confidential. It would be a huge media event, how high is the pot to get DM to leave! What's the pot at this week? Millions in donations pour in from Scientologists to persuade DM to leave!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traumatic_incident_reduction

You have to think WIN WIN

Why can't we all win?

DM has to win too!

But personally, the Church is none of my business. I don't want to run it so why should I complain about who is?

But since you want to run it, there is a nice pleasant solution for everyone.

 

[NonScio]

The next Waco?

If anyone recalls the Waco massacre some years back, and the flimsy
government justification for the assault (children were being abused...
so the federal government burned them all to death so they would no
longer be abused), it is apparent that when the government wants
to take action against a cult..it is quite willing and capable of doing so.
It will employ a full range of para military force...including tanks and
assault helicopters if it deems it "necessary".

Now, if even 10% of the horrors described here and on other boards
are occurring at the Scientology compounds, the government could
certainly spin a pretty convicing PR campaign to justify any action
they might take against Scientology in the future. Question is, why
have they not done so to date? What is the extent of the cult's
infiltration/influence on government agencies?

At Waco, there were accusations that David Koresh and his followers
had stockpiled weapons. This turned out to be true and they managed
to kill/wound some of the federal agents before they were wiped out.

Does anyone know if the Scientology "security" people have contingency
plans for a Waco type assault on, let's say, the Hemet Gold base
compund? Have they stockpiled heavy weapons beyond rifles and pistols?
Would they fight to the death rather than surrender given a Waco type
determined federal assault? What about the prisoners in the SP room...
would they be summarily murdered in such a situation?

A cult becomes extremely dangerous when it becomes apparent that the
"jig is up"...especially with an unstable person in charge...withness
Jim Jones and his Guyana cult...ended with what..700 dead? Then there
was that Japanese cult which launched a poison gas attack on the
Tokyo subway system some years ago.

Will Scientology go out with a bang (as so many cults have in the past),
or will it simply wither away?

 

[Pascal]

Honey, even Hubbard couldn't take the hat of commodore. The Church was sold to DM for approx 450 million dollars (finance police rounded that up from the mission accounts as they closed out the missions). It's legally owned by someone. You could make an offer pricewise. DM has given the nod to several "other practices" to practice without being disturbed. He gave the O.K. to operate TIR, and in case you haven't noticed, subjects like Avatar have been in business for a long time without interference.

I think if we want to get rid of DM we will have to pass around a collection plate and make him an offer financially, to get him to leave.

Can you imagine? People could pay into the trust account like via pay pal. Donors would be kept confidential. It would be a huge media event, how high is the pot to get DM to leave! What's the pot at this week? Millions in donations pour in from Scientologists to persuade DM to leave!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traumatic_incident_reduction

You have to think WIN WIN

Why can't we all win?

DM has to win too!

But personally, the Church is none of my business. I don't want to run it so why should I complain about who is?

But since you want to run it, there is a nice pleasant solution for everyone.

TIR? Avatar? What disgusting squirrel crap!

Love bombs and other bunk... Makes me want to send storm troopers in there and... LOL

DM will be booted out by his own staff. That's how guys like him end up. You can push and dominate thetans for so long. Eventually they say "fuck it!", I don't care about SP declares or my own body and that's when SPs like DM fall and they fall for a long long time.

BEA can confirm this from BC tapes.

DM might just commit suicide like Hitler and 1.5's do all the time. I wouldn't want to be him once he out of power, he'll be like those baddies in the movie "Ghost" sucked into hell by black thetans.

 

[NonScio]

TIR? Avatar? What disgusting squirrel crap!

Love bombs and other bunk... Makes me want to send storm troopers in there and... LOL

DM will be booted out by his own staff. That's how guys like him end up. You can push and dominate thetans for so long. Eventually they say "fuck it!", I don't care about SP declares or my own body and that's when SPs like DM fall and they fall for a long long time.

BEA can confirm this from BC tapes.

DM might just commit suicide like Hitler and 1.5's do all the time. I wouldn't want to be him once he out of power, he'll be like those baddies in the movie "Ghost" sucked into hell by black thetans.

I agree with the suicide probability...however they usually take as many as
their followers as they can with them. Hitler hung on long after the war
was clearly lost and hopeless...millions died in just the last few months of
the war in 1945. Jim Jones took something like 700 with him. So, are DM's faithful
willing to die with him if it comes to that?

 

[Kookaburra]

Does anyone know if the Scientology "security" people have contingency
plans for a Waco type assault on, let's say, the Hemet Gold base
compund? Have they stockpiled heavy weapons beyond rifles and pistols?
Would they fight to the death rather than surrender given a Waco type
determined federal assault? What about the prisoners in the SP room...
would they be summarily murdered in such a situation?

I'll let Andre Tabayoyon answer this for you. This is from his affidavid. I'll post the link for anyone who hasn't read the whole thing.

Andre Tabayoyon Affidavid

SCIENTOLOGY IS ARMED AND DANGEROUS

28. In 1991 I had to prepare the base so that it could be defended against the possibility of being taken over by the authorities in a time of crisis. There are approx. 750 people at the base. I was in charge of a project designing the base security system, the perimeter fence, the ultra razor barriers, the lighting of the perimeter fence, the electronic monitors, the concealed microphones, the ground sensors, the motion sensors and hidden cameras which were installed and all over the area -- even outside the base.

29. Church monies were used to purchase semi-automatic assault rifles (HK 91 assault rifles capable of firing 300-350 rounds of ammunition a minute, 45 caliber pistols, .380 automatic weapons and twelve gauge shotguns were stockpiled. These weapons were not registered. Church monies were also used to buy the ammunition.

30. Church monies were also used to purchase a large amount of pounds of gunpowder for the construction of various types of explosive devices to be used in the defense of the base.

31. The motorcycle guards were trained to carry loaded cocked 45 caliber pistols. The eagle scout, mounted high above the base, was trained to carry a high powered rifle with a telescopic scope. There is also a 1,000 millimeter telescope up with 'eagle'.

32. I developed three classifications of intruder and established the level of deadly force to use for each. In addition to firearms, the guards were taught how to effectively wield little batons. The basic things like striking to the center of the heart, the center of the solar plex and then to the side of the head, etc.

33. At church expense, I trained the security guards and other base personnel in the use of these weapons and explosives. I also trained them in the close quarter use of fatal force. We built a combat range for training purposes and I instructed Scientologists on various ways of shooting people. I also trained them in night vision and ambush techniques. We used a ravine that was a natural round shield so the noise would not cause any noisy inquiries.

 

[Little Bear Victor]

I'll let Andre Tabayoyon answer this for you. This is from his affidavid. I'll post the link for anyone who hasn't read the whole thing.

Andre Tabayoyon Affidavid

Well, that's quite something. If that's true it probably caused such a stir it was discontinued.

Andre Tabayoyan was still on the base when I arrived. There were no such training seminars for the general staff. There may have been something like that for Security and stand-by security people, although I never heard of it.

Any personal firearms of Base staff were given to security to take care of upon arrival. I think this was more DM's concern of him being shot by someone on the base. He told us in one base briefing he was woken up one night at his berthing at the villas by a disgruntled base staff member with a gun in his hand. Either this incident brought the practices Andre is describing to an end or they never took place. I can confirm that in the last 15+ years, there has been no such training, at least not on general staff level. Security guards may be another story. Earlier times may be so too.


Victor

 

[NonScio]

Well, that's quite something. If that's true it probably caused such a stir it was discontinued.

Andre Tabayoyan was still on the base when I arrived. There were no such training seminars for the general staff. There may have been something like that for Security and stand-by security people, although I never heard of it.

Any personal firearms of Base staff were given to security to take care of upon arrival. I think this was more DM's concern of him being shot by someone on the base. He told us in one base briefing he was woken up one night at his berthing at the villas by a disgruntled base staff member with a gun in his hand. Either this incident brought the practices Andre is describing to an end or they never took place. I can confirm that in the last 15+ years, there has been no such training, at least not on general staff level. Security guards may be another story. Earlier times may be so too.


Victor

Well, even if the Tabayoyan affadavid accurately described the current
situation...they would not be able to stop a federal assault. As I recall,
they brought in two M-1 Abrams tanks at Waco...and assault helicopters.
The Waco cultists were far less prepared than Tabayoyan describes
the Scientology compound. Whatever the Scientology people have,
the Feds have far more...and will be ruthless if the Scientology people
should be so stupid (or suicidal) to fire on them. Remember, they roasted
12 children under 5 years old at Waco...they would be quite happy to
oblige any Miscavige loyalists wanting to martyr themselves.

The Scientology snipers and gunman would be quickly identified and
neutralized. The detection devices would be useless except maybe
to warn of any pending attempt to free unwilling inmates of the compound
before the main assault. There gunpowder explosive devices would be
useless against heavy armored vehicles. I doubt if they have any
significant military grade explosives, anti tank weapons, anti aircraft
missiles etc...even if they did (and used them), the Feds would hardly
pack up and leave if they managed somehow to diable a tank or shoot
down a helicopter.

The real danger is the possibility of mass murder or suicide within the
compound itself as has been so typical in similar situations in the past
when cultists are backed into a corner and it becomes obvious that the
end of their fantasy world is near.

 

[everfree]

Even when I criticize, I normally try to temper my criticism and NOT be too inflamatory about it, because although I think the CofS is an extremely unhealthy group most people within it are imo good people who I would never like to see harmed so I don't wish to incite the sort of inflamed confrontation you describe. CofS as a group has cause enough harm already without encouraging more to happen.

 

[Little Bear Victor]

Okay, since I cannot conceive of anything like this happening, let me put it in another way: Weren't the Waco and Jonestown incidents both a closed cult with most of the existing adherents in that one location? The situation seems so different from what Scn is doing (or trying to do) I don't even see any real parallels that would suggest this.

We're not talking about a group of easily mislead people here, but people with generally very high intelligence, ability and judgement, no matter what anyone says to the contrary. Not to mention the fact that the entire philosophy is built upon the axiom of Survival.

I think this is a needless worry.

But we should worry about the ruthless mistreatment of staff by DM and the mental effects of trying to rationalize Scientology's "unquestionable perfection" and one's own obvious "incapacity of comprehension" of it. There is an absolute in the play here which will lock up anybody's rationale in the long run. You can only be wrong if you think there is something wrong with Scientology, with LRH or with COB. It is an enforced external command that cannot be refuted or analyzed by the individual. It has to be accepted uninspected. I think that is what the brainwashing claims are based on.

I used to think these claims to be ridiculous -- I was "never" forced into believing anything I didn't want to. Well, first of all, that's not true, but secondly, it is not done that blatantly. It is done by gaining your agreement at an easier level of comprehension on easily agreed-upon subjects and built up from there. Once you get the idea that everything LRH said was true, you've been primed to believe almost anything without inspection. Same "works" for DM, except that he has added using force to implant his commands as necessary, all under the heading of "ethics presence" or "getting in ethics."

This is an incomplete, undeveloped thought, and I will have to work on it some more, so I let others comment on it in the meanwhile.

Victor

 

[bts2free]

You're right Victor, $cientology on a gradient gets you to agree with easily agreeable data. That's why you don't hear about Xenu on the Success Through Communication course. By the time you get to OT III, you are so indocrinated into the "agreement" that Ron's word is a precise truth, that you don't think twice to think otherwise. What does get people to wake up is the fact that they start seeing the no results from $cientology. They start seeing for themselves that these so called OT powrz they've been promised never actually come into fruition. They start looking at the "super beings" around them and realize that some of these people are much worse off than the "regular guy" on the streets. Victor, you know from my position at the base, that I pretty much had to look through every single one of those ethics and pc folders and these were the "top OT beings on the planet." But as far as being OT is concerned, I just didn't see any evidence of that. Instead of seeing case gains, renewed OT abilities and visual results, it was nothing but KR's, Sec Check reports and "information" on each indiviual. If it's like that at the top of $cientology, that's the think and the mode that gets disseminated throughout the rest of the $cientology world as SOP.

As far as a Waco incident is concerned and all that, I think we should take a much better approach with a meeting of the minds of the people who used to work at that base. Possibly with people who still have inside connections at the base. I think the base can be infiltrated without anyone even having to go in, but by smart planning and orchestration that will help the members who are trying to get out of there OUT. There's already a pot on the stove cooking up some brilliant ideas.

Cheers,
BTs2Free

 

[Voltaire's Child]

When Waco happened, my husband's comment (We were in CofS then) was that if it happened to CofS, CofS management personnel would cooperate fully with law enforcement then, afterward, go sue the living shit out of them.

That's probably true. But there is rampant paranoia in CofS and not everyone has the same ideas...

Anyway, Janet Reno's no longer atty general, and that's a GOOD thing.

 

[Div6]

Victor, you know from my position at the base, that I pretty much had to look through every single one of those ethics and pc folders and these were the "top OT beings on the planet." But as far as being OT is concerned, I just didn't see any evidence of that. Instead of seeing case gains, renewed OT abilities and visual results, it was nothing but KR's, Sec Check reports and "information" on each indiviual. If it's like that at the top of $cientology, that's the think and the mode that gets disseminated throughout the rest of the $cientology world as SOP.


Cheers,
BTs2Free

Wow. I know you won't go in to specifics, but it seems to me you are saying that the top guys are "No Case Gain" or "Slow Case Gain" particles.

Do you happen to know the last thing DM attested to? From my obnosis I'd say he is about as BT free as George Bush....

 

[Little Bear Victor]

Wow. I know you won't go in to specifics, but it seems to me you are saying that the top guys are "No Case Gain" or "Slow Case Gain" particles.

Do you happen to know the last thing DM attested to? From my obnosis I'd say he is about as BT free as George Bush....

You eventually find out that virtually no auditing is done on the Base for anyone to go up the Bridge. It's all Sec Checking to find the crimes so that the people can be better controlled by DM. That's what it pretty much boils down to. If there are some gains to be had from Grade Chart actions -- maybe there is, maybe there isn't -- it was not the issue in that place.

Case in point, there are currently two staff auditors on post for 450 people on the base. And they certainly aren't working on getting staff up the Bridge.

Victor

 

[Div6]

You eventually find out that virtually no auditing is done on the Base for anyone to go up the Bridge. It's all Sec Checking to find the crimes so that the people can be better controlled by DM. That's what it pretty much boils down to. If there are some gains to be had from Grade Chart actions -- maybe there is, maybe there isn't -- it was not the issue in that place.

Case in point, there are currently two staff auditors on post for 450 people on the base. And they certainly aren't working on getting staff up the Bridge.

Victor

So much for "Deliver whats promised."

 

[Zinjifar]

So much for "Deliver whats promised."

It's a little bit of a different issue, but, in many ways I'm grateful for what Scientology fails to deliver:

R2-45
Deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the tone scale
Shuddering into silence
The Clear Planet
Eimination, quietly and without sorrow
Scientology 'Ethics'
Utter ruination
Safe Pointing
Command Intention

The list goes on and on.

If Scientology actually *could* deliver on its promises, it would be a very ugly and mean-spirited world.

Zinj

 

[Div6]

It's a little bit of a different issue, but, in many ways I'm grateful for what Scientology fails to deliver:

R2-45
Deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the tone scale
Shuddering into silence
The Clear Planet
Eimination, quietly and without sorrow
Scientology 'Ethics'
Utter ruination
Safe Pointing
Command Intention

The list goes on and on.

If Scientology actually *could* deliver on its promises, it would be a very ugly and mean-spirited world.

Zinj

What a sad little man you are....master of inval and eval.


I'll give you something to look forward to: if there is a next time around for you get a scn girlfriend. Besides the fact that most of them define "hot" (at least they did when I was on lines) they can rock your world in ways you've never dreamed....

 

[Zinjifar]

What a sad little man you are....master of inval and eval.


I'll give you something to look forward to: if there is a next time around for you get a scn girlfriend. Besides the fact that most of them define "hot" (at least they did when I was on lines) they can rock your world in ways you've never dreamed....

I guess you don't know me very well :Þ

but, you don't need to. Very little here is about 'me'.

Zinj

 

[Terril park]

You eventually find out that virtually no auditing is done on the Base for anyone to go up the Bridge. It's all Sec Checking to find the crimes so that the people can be better controlled by DM. That's what it pretty much boils down to. If there are some gains to be had from Grade Chart actions -- maybe there is, maybe there isn't -- it was not the issue in that place.

Case in point, there are currently two staff auditors on post for 450 people on the base. And they certainly aren't working on getting staff up the Bridge.

Victor

I have had input that validates that.

 

[Bea Kiddo]

Seems like CCI was the only org where staff moved up the Bridge somewhat. And not much anyways. Especially when they stopped letting public audit staff. I was actually getting people up the Grades for a while there using public interns. But of course, being CCI, there was confidential Celeb stuff in teh heads of staff members and the public could not be hearing about that. And there went bridge progress for the staff.

 

[NonScio]

"Up the Bridge"

I notice that scientologists and ex scientologists refer to going "up" the
bridge. This may be a silly question, but where did that convention come
from? Dosent one usually go OVER a bridge, or CROSS a bridge..one might
go UP a ladder, or Up a stairway...but UP a Bridge? Its an odd metaphor.