Wake up! Read this! Do that!

[Claire Swazey]

I've seen so many posts opining that someone needs to wake up or read some sort of critical book. We all do it. I think it's great that we want to de-bot'icize friends and acquaintances who are still drinking the koolaid. I think they need that advice (if only they're read it) and I'm obviously not alone in this.

But why on earth are these suggestions being phrased as commands then lobbed at other exes? "Wake up". "Read the Complex". "Knock it off, don't say this, don't do that." Seriously?

Anyone who's left CofS has taken the biggest right step he or she will ever take. Anyone who hangs out here already has a shelf of critical books, articles, and the like.

I know we all need a little help now and then but when it's stuff like this it's more like someone's lobbing unsolicited mention about a critical book or an imaginary wake up call (for what, exactly, anyway?) out of a fit of pique. It's often combined with a stated opinion that the person is still into Scn or is doing something suspicious or is in denial.

I often ask for advice. I often ask for input. But unsolicited negative nonsense like this goes right in my circular file. Does anyone seriously think that anyone who's been involved in critical activities, posting and picketing for years somehow has magically not familiarized him or herself with those books, talked to other critics, been very active in criticizing Hubbard just because, say, they like somebody whom that other person doesn't like? That strikes me as incredibly egotistical as well as uninformed and rude.

This is a rant. It is my rant. Overall, I think that most forum regulars are awesome, literate, funny, interesting, vital people brimming with integrity and decency. Just absolutely thrilled to know those I know.

But for the self appointed nannies, finger shakers and the inevitable claimers that "you're still into Scientology", well, I'm sorry, but I can't include you in the above. Basically, bitch, I already got a mom.

 

[Smilla]

I've never liked the 'wake up' thing. It presumes too much.

 

[Gadfly]

Claire, I think some or much of what you cite is done for the sake of the LURKERS!

 

[Claire Swazey]

I've never liked the 'wake up' thing. It presumes too much.

Yes, I think so, too. There are times when friends of mine and I will talk about someone who's "still in" and you know, it's the sort of thing one feels like saying but it probably wouldn't work out so well. It's too much of a buzzphrase, IMO.

And, honestly, why say that to a fellow ex? I get that we don't all have the same perspectives and nobody's correct all the time. I've had a lot of people disclose a lot of things I'd never ever known before and I'm grateful. But someone comes along advising me to wake up or did you read that or denial etc, it's like the Peanuts cartoons where the adults are heard (by the kids) as going whomp whomp - nonsense sounds.

I saw a comment posted- oh many years ago- but anyway, the person was talking about someone else and said "Wake the fuck up!". Had the person but known it, the subject of the comment was unofficially out and had no illusions left.

I guess that a lot of this just goes with the territory of posting on a debate forum about a subject in which our hearts and pasts had been so greatly involved and which continues to affect us and people we love even now.

 

[Claire Swazey]

Yah, I know there are a lot of posts encouraging lurkers to look and to learn. But the posts I was thinking of specifically named certain individuals as recipients. People kinda doing a "Jane, you ignorant slut" type thang. So when that happens, it's obviously meant for Jane.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Re: Rant !

I've seen so many posts opining that someone needs to wake up or read some sort of critical book. We all do it. I think it's great that we want to de-bot'icize friends and acquaintances who are still drinking the koolaid. I think they need that advice (if only they're read it) and I'm obviously not alone in this.

But why on earth are these suggestions being phrased as commands then lobbed at other exes? "Wake up". "Read the Complex". "Knock it off, don't say this, don't do that." Seriously?

Anyone who's left CofS has taken the biggest right step he or she will ever take. Anyone who hangs out here already has a shelf of critical books, articles, and the like.

I know we all need a little help now and then but when it's stuff like this it's more like someone's lobbing unsolicited mention about a critical book or an imaginary wake up call (for what, exactly, anyway?) out of a fit of pique. It's often combined with a stated opinion that the person is still into Scn or is doing something suspicious or is in denial.

I often ask for advice. I often ask for input. But unsolicited negative nonsense like this goes right in my circular file. Does anyone seriously think that anyone who's been involved in critical activities, posting and picketing for years somehow has magically not familiarized him or herself with those books, talked to other critics, been very active in criticizing Hubbard just because, say, they like somebody whom that other person doesn't like? That strikes me as incredibly egotistical as well as uninformed and rude.

This is a rant. It is my rant. Overall, I think that most forum regulars are awesome, literate, funny, interesting, vital people brimming with integrity and decency. Just absolutely thrilled to know those I know.

But for the self appointed nannies, finger shakers and the inevitable claimers that "you're still into Scientology", well, I'm sorry, but I can't include you in the above. Basically, bitch, I already got a mom.

I do LOVE a good rant !

 

[Commander Birdsong]

at the moment i'm in san francisco which is just a helluva great place to wake up but i spend a lot of time in boston where you might as well just sleep

 

[Jquepublic]

Yah, I know there are a lot of posts encouraging lurkers to look and to learn. But the posts I was thinking of specifically named certain individuals as recipients. People kinda doing a "Jane, you ignorant slut" type thang. So when that happens, it's obviously meant for Jane.

Some people can't understand that two different opinions can be equally valid. Instead of trying to understand where the other person is coming from, it's easier for them to "assume" the other is an idiot. It's rude no matter how you slice it and I'm betting even lurkers will think twice about listening to whatever follows. I know I sure do.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

...


MINI-RANT DU JOUR: What is the difference?

* You must wake up.

* You must never say "Wake Up".​

 

[Idle Morgue]

I am in agreement and can only speak for myself. Scientology is DANGEROUS and commands work - they got us in the CULT!!

I think we want people to LOOK and know the truth and it is frustrating when someone hangs on to Hubbturd as if he was a great man that did something great - he was a CON - so WAKE UP lurkers - (just kidding)

Actually, I have noticed that people are "out" at different gradients - for me - it was BOOM - I am done once I got on the internet after receiving Debbie Cook's e-mail - for others - it is hard to give up the Hubbturd and maybe it is because they don't have anything stable to fall back on - not everything Hubbturd wrote was bad or a lie - but the truths sprinkled in with a whole lot of SPIN - is what got me confused and making lots of mistakes. Oh how I made mistakes - huge ones! I was alone and isolated except a few family and friends in the cult - so there were NO SP's in my vicinity. Who was it? I received Debbie Cook's e-mail - went on the internet and it all came to light - Hubbard and his tech are the SP (IMHO). I got out and I got better - stopped making the huge mistakes! Started putting my life together and it was hard but I am doing it.

I am doing so much better now that I am out and no longer connected to this Cult. I want others to have these wins! I don't want to hear of any more suicides, cancer, bankruptcy, foreclosure, battered and abused staff and Sea Org all spinning for absolutely nothing whilst David Miss Cabbage sits on his throne spending "our" hard earned money for his own personal game!

 

[Captain Koolaid]

I agree with this, but should I ever have the questionable honor of being in the same room with the Rathbun, I will whip out a copy of Barefaced Messiah and shove it into his face.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Some people can't understand that two different opinions can be equally valid. ...

Or more likely, equally invalid.

Just because multiple opinions are offered doesn't mean one of them is necessarily correct, or even more correct.

Mark A. Baker

 

[GoNuclear]

I agree with this, but should I ever have the questionable honor of being in the same room with the Rathbun, I will whip out a copy of Barefaced Messiah and shove it into his face.

The Rathbun has probably read it and found a way of rationalizing it. I've seen that sort of thing happen before, both with Scientology as well as other topics, in particular when discussing the exact nature of the income tax. I am thinking about one particular incident where I got into a discussion with a lawyer over the income tax, pointed out some of the simple and obvious things, or at least things that are obvious to me having looked into the issue. At first there was the lightbulb going on, doink! as she was brought to understanding. Then the look on her face totally changed, as she went into catatonic brainfart. Why? What I was pointing out to her, by asking simple questions while she provided the simple obvious answers ... it had to be right because it came out of her own mouth. That caused the lightbulb thing. Then her training and all those years of what she had been taught kicked in ... big contradiction. The brainfart. Then came the anger and rejection and extreme defensiveness. She was frothing at the mouth before I left her office. It was a sight to see.

BTW, this is what MAY have happened to Tommy Davis. I can't put my finger on the reference, but, I believe I read either here or elsewhere that he made some statement to the effect that if the HubTurdian bio was bullshit, then it was all bullshit. If that is what happened, I can just picture what he went thru over that.

Pete

 

[Jquepublic]

Or more likely, equally invalid.

Just because multiple opinions are offered doesn't mean one of them is necessarily correct, or even more correct.

Mark A. Baker

Well, I can't speak for everyone but I generally regard my own opinions as correct. But I get what you're saying nonetheless.

 

[JackStraw]

I've seen so many posts opining that someone needs to wake up or read some sort of critical book. We all do it. I think it's great that we want to de-bot'icize friends and acquaintances who are still drinking the koolaid. I think they need that advice (if only they're read it) and I'm obviously not alone in this.

But why on earth are these suggestions being phrased as commands then lobbed at other exes? "Wake up". "Read the Complex". "Knock it off, don't say this, don't do that." Seriously?

<snippy>

I know what you mean. I hate when someone thinks they have to tell me to do something or other...

I even resented the Tower of Power song You Ought to be Having Fun.

I mean, Who the f*ck are you to assume I am not, now having fun!

Jack

 

[Panda Termint]

I love a good Claire Rant first thing in the morning!

 

[Claire Swazey]

Everyone has issues and stuff they're working through. Nobody's perfect. And we all know that about ourselves, I think.

It's the sort of knowledge that has to come from within. Wake up calls don't come from those who are lashing out - because those people are mainly participating in a masturbatory exercise disguised as altruism.

Mosstly, though,the feedback people here give is generally pretty wise and low key. I think the bullshit I was talking about in this thread is noticeable because it's a noisy conspicuous minority of posts and contributors. So that's good, I guess.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Everyone has issues and stuff they're working through. Nobody's perfect. And we all know that about ourselves, I think.

It's the sort of knowledge that has to come from within. Wake up calls don't come from those who are lashing out - because those people are mainly participating in a masturbatory exercise disguised as altruism.

Mosstly, though,the feedback people here give is generally pretty wise and low key. I think the bullshit I was talking about in this thread is noticeable because it's a noisy conspicuous minority of posts and contributors. So that's good, I guess.

Just curious.....

"Wake up calls don't come from those who are lashing out - because those people are mainly participating in a masturbatory exercise disguised as altruism."
Who are you talking about?

"I think the bullshit I was talking about in this thread is noticeable because it's a noisy conspicuous minority of posts and contributors."
What bullshit? Who is a noisy conspicuous minority?

Why so vague? Why don't you say exactly who is posting incorrectly on your thread? Maybe if they know who they are they will leave your thread alone.

 

[loose cannon]

I agree with you, Claire. I don't think that condescending, make-wrong attitude will ever do much good to the person thus addressed.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

I've seen so many posts opining that someone needs to wake up or read some sort of critical book. We all do it. I think it's great that we want to de-bot'icize friends and acquaintances who are still drinking the koolaid. I think they need that advice (if only they're read it) and I'm obviously not alone in this.

But why on earth are these suggestions being phrased as commands then lobbed at other exes? "Wake up". "Read the Complex". "Knock it off, don't say this, don't do that." Seriously?

Anyone who's left CofS has taken the biggest right step he or she will ever take. Anyone who hangs out here already has a shelf of critical books, articles, and the like.

I know we all need a little help now and then but when it's stuff like this it's more like someone's lobbing unsolicited mention about a critical book or an imaginary wake up call (for what, exactly, anyway?) out of a fit of pique. It's often combined with a stated opinion that the person is still into Scn or is doing something suspicious or is in denial.

I often ask for advice. I often ask for input. But unsolicited negative nonsense like this goes right in my circular file. Does anyone seriously think that anyone who's been involved in critical activities, posting and picketing for years somehow has magically not familiarized him or herself with those books, talked to other critics, been very active in criticizing Hubbard just because, say, they like somebody whom that other person doesn't like? That strikes me as incredibly egotistical as well as uninformed and rude.

This is a rant. It is my rant. Overall, I think that most forum regulars are awesome, literate, funny, interesting, vital people brimming with integrity and decency. Just absolutely thrilled to know those I know.

But for the self appointed nannies, finger shakers and the inevitable claimers that "you're still into Scientology", well, I'm sorry, but I can't include you in the above. Basically, bitch, I already got a mom.

I really don't have an issue regarding people 'waking up' or not if they are happy though it is dreadful (for the family) when they are cut off due to someone they love being a scientologist.

Ambulance chasers and people that actively 'encourage' others to retain the mindset when they are climbing out of the maze make me cross though and I'll tell them to 'wake up!' for as long as I'm allowed to get away with it.