Women and Scientology

[Lermanet_com]

There may be something black in the "tech" - especially for women... LINK

 

[Lulu Belle]

I think Mary Sue had something to do with the early lockout of powerful women. She did not want other females in power positions.

From my understanding she did not want females with a lot of direct contact with LRH - we can imagine why.

A friend of mine who was around in the early years and knew LRH pretty well never had a kind word about Mary Sue. She indicated to me that Mary Sue ruled many areas that people just thought LRH did.

While on the outside it looked like Mary Sue was the supportive wife - she was a controlling bitch who did not want anything or anybody getting in the way of the money or success. She did not want anyone to steal the thunder or claim any glory that could be theirs.

I am sure her "fall from grace" and lockout after the "scandal" was a big adjustment for her.

:confused2:

Sounds like Mary Sue M9ed and starrated The Responsibilities of Leaders a few too many times...

 

[Leland]

Sounds like Mary Sue M9ed and starrated The Responsibilities of Leaders a few too many times...

and the CMO as a poster here stated was 80% women.....but isn't that not women....but little kids and girls....Many I suppose, pre-pubesent.

I'd really like someone to chime in about this.....and fill in a few personal insights....

 

[prosecco]

There may be something black in the "tech" - especially for women... LINK

Further to the, 'women are neurotic' theme, it always puzzled me the 'advice' from Hubbard about breast feeding.

He suggested that since, 'most women smoke...' as a reason NOT to breast feed but that it was better to give babies his weird recipe of formula...

First of all, smoking does NOT penetrate breast milk, so even if a mother did smoke, it wouldn't matter. Unfortunately I know several women who decided not to breast feed based on Hubbard's weird science.

Initially I was rather sympathetic to the notion that Hubbard was after all, a man of the 50s where breast feeding was considered lower class, but then I remembered his time travelling abilities where he could take note of the WHO advice that exclusively breast feeding for 6 months was preferable and up to 2 years was ideal...

 

[still here]

I'd be interested in some SO women chiming in about how scientology and or the dreck and or the stucture of the SO....... "De- Femininized " them.....if that occurred?

And how that worked? Do any of the women here on ESMB feel that they had to reconnect to and or re-establish their femininity after escaping from the SO?

In my 27 years as a public..... I can't recall much in the dreck about the genders. BUT is was certainly lacking any feminine side.....

Was Scientology suppose to be "genderless"......

[whole track query....don't have to read this. It seems to me....that considering ALL the import regarding Implants and such in Scamology.....there is very little regarding gender. It would seem to me that IF some group were going to implant another group....or IF there was a whole track history of implants.....that certainly there would be a lot of stuff about gender. IMO. Doesn't seem to make much sense....that there wasn't in scamology.]

Well Firstly let me say that I was based in the UK and not at the huge power centres of Int, LA and Flag, so maybe it my experience is not consistent with others. I did train in LA and Flag during my career of course. I always held senior positions in the SO. One of the (only) redeeming features of the SO for me was the equality afforded to women in the mid 70s. It was not so in mainstream life and industry. (or if it was I had not yet found it).

I never saw myself particularly as a leader or executive when I joined (at a naïve 21) I rose quickly through the ranks in all the orgs I worked, including FOLO UK. I was invited on more than one occasion to join the CMO, FLB, FSO and INT. I refused on the basis that I had a son living with his father in the UK and (luckily), when it became an issue, I had taken LSD. I was already SO but could not become CMO.

I have been a very successful senior government director since the SO. And before that a successful manager, and leader. I have never been masculine, or dominant. I am focussed and very practical. I have been able to relate to my staff, empathise and get the best out of them. I have believed in them, supported them and been hard working and committed. I used similar, although less sophisticated and understood techniques in the SO. I have never been a bully in my life. I have never once, in the SO and out of it for the last 35 years, shouted at, or intimidated any of my staff.

I have been married 3 times. I celebrated my 29th anniversary to my current husband last week. (having seen Dean's lovely anniversary thread!) I am still close friends with many people who have worked for me, and with me, and no-one including my current husband (who was public then staff under me in the SO and once we were out, worked for me), been described as un-feminine. If anything I am very feminine and always have been.

I did not sacrifice my femininity for seniority, position or Mr Hubbard. I did not expect to be an executive when I started. I have come to think that I have somehow natural leadership qualities. These do not involve becoming "masculine" nor dominant, has that ever been expected of me.

I hope this helps Leland.

Still

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Re: the Commodores Messengers...I said "female" and not "women"...Yes, for part of the Apollo era they were for a time mostly children and then later pubescent adolescents, latter teens and then young adults during the mid to latter 70's.

Re: Mary Sue...I've written quite a bit about my first hand impressions and opinions of her on ESMB. I'm not gonna take the time to go look up and Link to all that. However, to briefly sumarize...

IMHO firsthand personal experience, Mary Sue was of far more complex substance, contributive to "Red" & Green Tech", subtly influential and directly/indirectly responsible for what empowerment there was of women in the SO and Scn at that time than will ever be accurately documented, fully appreciated or deservedly credited. I never said she was a Saint and did say she sure enough could be a stone cold Bitch and that she most certainly gave all she had to be El Ron's Manuela Sáenz. I also said she was intensely protective of El Ron and that I have first hand knowledge that she "stuck her neck out" to research, formulate and present to Hisself a humane and decent "Solution" to the SO Children and their Parents (especially the Mothers) "Situation", only to have it shot down in flames by Hisself. IMHO, Mary Sues' "guilt" stems mostly not from her foibles, shortcomings and behavior...It stems from the corruption of her Soul, the abrogation of her Heart and mesmerism of her Mind by her one and only Husband and the Father of her only Children. IMHO, Mary Sues' lot is one of the most vile and tragic stories of someone that "Flowed Power To Ron", "Followed Command Intention" and gave their life to "Help Ron Clear The Planet".

I'm not condoning or giving a "Pass" to all that Mary Sue did. I'm just relating my first hand observations, recollections and opinions from four decades or so ago.

Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

I've posted the following here and there on ESMB before but I thought I'd just post it all in one place. It's probably not germane to this Thread so forgive the derail...

On the Apollo the Household Unit personnel were the personal Stewards (Servants) to El Ron and Hisself's family. They were Servants in every way, cooking, serving, cleaning, ironing, purchasing sundries, facilitating all personal needs and wishes 24/7. I had a number of close friends in the HU. I've written a number of Posts on ESMB about the HU on the Apollo and at length about Rick Sheehy, who was the CommodeDoor's Chief Steward for a number of years on the Apollo.

The best treatment, consideration and gratitude that the HU Staff received for the Hubbard Family Members was...

Quintin, Suzette and Mary Sue by far.

A long ways down from them was Arthur who was spoiled, snotty and often a jerk.

A long ways down from Arthur was Diana who was exceedingly demanding, ultra picky, often snooty and invariably condescending.

And way, Way, WAY, WAY, WAY down from Princess Di was El Ron...Hisself was intensely moody, utterly unpredictable, ultra short tempered with transient raging tantrums of vicious shouting, brutally savage rebuke and frightening anger, often laced with expletives.

Face