Effort to Simplify

[Vinaire]

This thread is started in an effort to simplify data that I come across.

Right now I am looking at OT III data of Scientology. At this level, the concept of BT (Body thetan) is introduced for the first time. I am looking at how this concept translates to simple understanding.

The first thought that came to my mind is that a BT is like a battery energizing certain circuits locally. These local circuits can be those of the body. So, we have lot of different “batteries” independently energizing different “circuits” of the body. Ideally, all these circuits are supposed to be energized by the individual (“I”). But “I” is not doing that.

If the above is true, then the questions are:
(1) What is nature of these “batteries”?
(2) How do they become part of local circuits?
(3) Are they phenomena of these circuits themselves?
(4) How do we reverse engineer this phenomenon?

It appears that handling of these local circuits may be compared to “laser surgery.” Anyway, my investigation continues.

.

 

[uniquemand]

Another question

(5) Are they real. If not, why am I studying them.

 

[nexus100]

This thread is started in an effort to simplify data that I come across.

Right now I am looking at OT III data of Scientology. At this level, the concept of BT (Body thetan) is introduced for the first time. I am looking at how this concept translates to simple understanding.

The first thought that came to my mind is that a BT is like a battery energizing certain circuits locally. These local circuits can be those of the body. So, we have lot of different “batteries” independently energizing different “circuits” of the body. Ideally, all these circuits are supposed to be energized by the individual (“I”). But “I” is not doing that.

If the above is true, then the questions are:
(1) What is nature of these “batteries”?
(2) How do they become part of local circuits?
(3) Are they phenomena of these circuits themselves?
(4) How do we reverse engineer this phenomenon?

It appears that handling of these local circuits may be compared to “laser surgery.” Anyway, my investigation continues.

.

Questions: Did you ever encounter BT's, or spirits, in Idenics? What is your opinion of those encounters based on your experience?

 

[uniquemand]

Additionally, Vinaire, crack open DMSMH. BTs were called BTs in OTIII, but existed previously as "Demon Circuits" in DMSMH. People will argue about this. Skip the significances, and check out Hubbard's definition of Demon Circuit, and the discussion of them in DMSMH. Explain how these are any different from BTs.

 

[Alanzo]

Very interesting questions, Vinaire.

I'm looking forward to see what you will come up with in this area.



By the way, when I was a Scientologist, I was deathly afraid of any discussion of what was on OT 3. I had a whole set of "restim" symptons that I would experience whenever I came across this data.

I was inculcated very early in my Scientology career that OT 3 was very very powerful and that I could die from exposure to the material without being "ready for it". I have found continaully since then that nothing has really ever happened to me. I never even got sick, let alone died. But I sure would freak myself out over it.

I now know that this is an example of a positive suggestion that Hubbard used for control purposes on Scientologists, and within the technology of "cults" and social coercion, this suggested fear of the OT 3 material is called an "installed phobia".

In Scientology terms, it's called an "implant". The fear of the OT 3 materials in Scientologists is an impant installed into Scientologists by Hubbard himself.

Imagine that!

 

[uniquemand]

What's really bizarre about that is that he went on at length about any number of different implants during a variety of lectures. It's been a while since I listened to his lectures, but I'd bet he talks about BTs on them, as well. The creation of OTIII as a mystery was, IMO, purely cultish marketing strategy.

Key concept: "the mind's protection"

 

[Feral]

Answers for Vinny

This thread is started in an effort to simplify data that I come across.

Right now I am looking at OT III data of Scientology. At this level, the concept of BT (Body thetan) is introduced for the first time. I am looking at how this concept translates to simple understanding.

The first thought that came to my mind is that a BT is like a battery energizing certain circuits locally. These local circuits can be those of the body. So, we have lot of different “batteries” independently energizing different “circuits” of the body. Ideally, all these circuits are supposed to be energized by the individual (“I”). But “I” is not doing that.

If the above is true, then the questions are:
(1) What is nature of these “batteries”?
(2) How do they become part of local circuits?
(3) Are they phenomena of these circuits themselves?
(4) How do we reverse engineer this phenomenon?

It appears that handling of these local circuits may be compared to “laser surgery.” Anyway, my investigation continues.

.

I've never looked at it the way you are here, but will give my best answers, the following is a best guess from experience, at this stage I'm convinced Hubbard didn't understand the truth behind the 'man is a composite' thing.

I suspect after one does the first few hundred hours of handling entities you begin to handle mocked up life and cellular life, that can go on forever! And is fruitless.

Answers;
1- They are supposed to be dormant and semi dormant life.
2- They have their own circuits and cases that they bring with them that answers 3 as well
4- No clue

There are several flaws in all of this.

If one is on the route to spiritual immortality why is he getting rid of transitory attachments on his this lifetime body to achieve that freedom? All the evidence points to the fact that a great percentage of these entities detach at death and re attach to a random body at birth. So next life time you get a new team!

OTVIII addresses the fact that a great amount of the past identities that you audited out or addressed were those of other beings and not your own. This tends to show that ones co habitation with each thetan is often only brief.

I think, after 3500 hrs of solo a better spiritual path would be to live in harmony with ones entities and to proof oneself up for future lifetimes so that you can't become the adverse effect of say some psychotic being who has a penchant for arson that you could attract at random.

Having said that I have had a few big resurgences from handling some (mostly in first few hundred hours)but the last many years of solo was exciting as running "do birds fly" for a couple of thousand hours.

 

[uniquemand]

I've read in a few different places and from a few different tech posters that the best way to handle BTs is as a repair action. Instead of making a level out of it, handle them when they come up using NOTS, and continue whatever other handling you were doing that brought them into focus.

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

And I read somewhere that the Thetan himself pulls in his body thetans, either through loneliness/low havingness on his part, or out of sympathy for those poor sad BTs with no body of their own.

You wouldn't leave a fluffy little kitten on your doorstep in the snow would you.

 

[Vinaire]

I have couple more questions:

(1) What is it that one is trying to handle on OT III?

Is it body somatic? Or, is the automaticity of creating pictures? It has to be something not handled at Clear.


(2) Did Hubbard first look at some phenomenon and then worked out a theory to explain that phenomenon? What was that phenomenon?

I have yet to read the OT III materials. I am simply going about with no preconceived notions.

BTs appear to be localized circuits that are out of control. One simply needs to get rid of the factor that is keeping them out of control.

.

 

[Vinaire]

Another question

(5) Are they real. If not, why am I studying them.

I have no idea. I am studying them to find out if they are real or not... or, what element of this subject is real and what is not.

.

 

[Vinaire]

Questions: Did you ever encounter BT's, or spirits, in Idenics? What is your opinion of those encounters based on your experience?

I have no idea what BTs, or spirits truly are. They seem to be an explanation for some real phenomenon. I need to isolate and study that phenomenon directly to come up with something that I can understand.

That phenomenon obviously is LIFE!

.

 

[nexus100]

I have no idea what BTs, or spirits truly are. They seem to be an explanation for some real phenomenon. I need to isolate and study that phenomenon directly to come up with something that I can understand.

That phenomenon obviously is LIFE!

.

Thanks! I don't know if you want other's experience but here is mine, already stated on other posts.
Through Idenics I addressed many areas of my body. Why, I don't know, it was part of the process. You had called them possibly emotion deposits, or something like that.
Once one appeared that was definitely a being, a horribly unhappy being, and it left my body and area. It came back a week or two later, and I told it to leave, which it did.
That is the only time I recall "seeing" a spirit this lifetime.

 

[Vinaire]

Additionally, Vinaire, crack open DMSMH. BTs were called BTs in OTIII, but existed previously as "Demon Circuits" in DMSMH. People will argue about this. Skip the significances, and check out Hubbard's definition of Demon Circuit, and the discussion of them in DMSMH. Explain how these are any different from BTs.

What you wrote makes sense. But how does OT III handles these Demon circuits? Some aspect of OT III process handles them. What is it?

Running of incidents 2 and 1 seem to, in some way, as-is these circuits... or maybe not. Maybe, there is something else here, which gives people wins in the beginning.

I do not look at these two incidents as "truth." But there could be some underlying significance that I am unable to grasp.

I'll keep on looking (not analyzing) and see what pops up!

.

 

[Vinaire]

Very interesting questions, Vinaire.

I'm looking forward to see what you will come up with in this area.



By the way, when I was a Scientologist, I was deathly afraid of any discussion of what was on OT 3. I had a whole set of "restim" symptons that I would experience whenever I came across this data.

I was inculcated very early in my Scientology career that OT 3 was very very powerful and that I could die from exposure to the material without being "ready for it". I have found continaully since then that nothing has really ever happened to me. I never even got sick, let alone died. But I sure would freak myself out over it.

I now know that this is an example of a positive suggestion that Hubbard used for control purposes on Scientologists, and within the technology of "cults" and social coercion, this suggested fear of the OT 3 material is called an "installed phobia".

In Scientology terms, it's called an "implant". The fear of the OT 3 materials in Scientologists is an impant installed into Scientologists by Hubbard himself.

Imagine that!

I may have to start looking from the observable phenomena again which are described in raw form in DMSMH.

I get pictures of knots in the psyche that are so tight that they are very difficult to loosen.

.

 

[Vinaire]

What's really bizarre about that is that he went on at length about any number of different implants during a variety of lectures. It's been a while since I listened to his lectures, but I'd bet he talks about BTs on them, as well. The creation of OTIII as a mystery was, IMO, purely cultish marketing strategy.

Key concept: "the mind's protection"

Each continuing postulate (consideration) limits a thetan. This is more insidious than any implant. The harder the thetan holds on to any consideration the more limited he becomes.

For how "long" this "implanting" has been going on seems to be just the "thickness" of the layers upon layers of vias (considerations) intervening when one is trying to recognize the ultimate reality.

.

 

[uniquemand]

Ultimate reality? Perhaps it is the effort to perceive some ultimate reality that blinds us to the reality in front of us. I'm a fan of obnosis.

 

[Vinaire]

I've never looked at it the way you are here, but will give my best answers, the following is a best guess from experience, at this stage I'm convinced Hubbard didn't understand the truth behind the 'man is a composite' thing.

I suspect after one does the first few hundred hours of handling entities you begin to handle mocked up life and cellular life, that can go on forever! And is fruitless.

Answers;
1- They are supposed to be dormant and semi dormant life.
2- They have their own circuits and cases that they bring with them that answers 3 as well
4- No clue

There are several flaws in all of this.

If one is on the route to spiritual immortality why is he getting rid of transitory attachments on his this lifetime body to achieve that freedom? All the evidence points to the fact that a great percentage of these entities detach at death and re attach to a random body at birth. So next life time you get a new team!

OTVIII addresses the fact that a great amount of the past identities that you audited out or addressed were those of other beings and not your own. This tends to show that ones co habitation with each thetan is often only brief.

I think, after 3500 hrs of solo a better spiritual path would be to live in harmony with ones entities and to proof oneself up for future lifetimes so that you can't become the adverse effect of say some psychotic being who has a penchant for arson that you could attract at random.

Having said that I have had a few big resurgences from handling some (mostly in first few hundred hours)but the last many years of solo was exciting as running "do birds fly" for a couple of thousand hours.

I am looking at BTs as "self-operating circuits" that are very difficult to as-is as they probably affect the very capability that helps one as-is.

The idea "man is a composite thing" has never made sense to me. Body has parts, mind has parts, but it doesn't make sense to me to think that spirit has parts.

Something doesn't make sense to me about OT III giving wins in the first few hundred hours and then getting into grinding just like Dianetics did.

1- Life is not spirit. Life is created by spirit. If life appears in compartments it doesn't necessarily mean that spirit has broken into compartments.

2 - There seem to be different gradients of vias, distorting the ultimate reality. the very fabric of these circuits seem to be the considerations closest to the thetan.

3 - These considerations seem to have a power of their own because they are so very intimate to the thetan but appear separate from the thetan.

4 - Maybe looking at the very mechanism that produces considerations could lead to reverse engineering.

Consideration that body is indispensable, important or necessary could be part of the circuit. One is free when one has no compunction about giving up one's body when a situation demands it.

Other being attached to one can only be one's own considerations that seems to have taken life of their own (like in a story that one is writing). Becoming paranoid to these considerations seem to be aberration in itself.

I think that resurgence would come naturally by recognizing those considerations that one has been operating on all his life without realizing it.

These is are just some quick ideas not thoroughly looked at yet.

.

 

[Vinaire]

Ultimate reality? Perhaps it is the effort to perceive some ultimate reality that blinds us to the reality in front of us. I'm a fan of obnosis.

How can one make effort to perceive the ultimate reality when one has no idea what that ultimate reality is?

All one can do is observe the obvious. That is all one can do!

.

 

[Vinaire]

Thanks! I don't know if you want other's experience but here is mine, already stated on other posts.
Through Idenics I addressed many areas of my body. Why, I don't know, it was part of the process. You had called them possibly emotion deposits, or something like that.
Once one appeared that was definitely a being, a horribly unhappy being, and it left my body and area. It came back a week or two later, and I told it to leave, which it did.
That is the only time I recall "seeing" a spirit this lifetime.

What underlies that which appeared as a being? Ah! my curiosity seems to be insatiable.

.