Sham-wow - Classic OSA operation
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Tiger Lily
Gold Meritorious Patron
This thread is becoming very interesting to me as well.
True, OT8-still-in has not been demonstrating the basic principles of ARC or anything. There is a condescending attitude there sometimes, and cryptic communications that can be frustrating. It's no wonder that people are responding negatively. I can't blame anyone for that in this case.
The thing to do is maybe look a little deeper. Here are some possibilities:
1. OSI is feeling disgruntled with the COS and trying to get some information. If this is the case, and OSI is really who s/he says, (an OT8) then there has to be a god-awful amount of charge on doing such a thing. Imagine the indoctrination about what SP's we all must be. Try to remember what it was like to muster the courage to finally open your mind and look. I can certainly imagine that there would be some negative emotion -- and a huge internal struggle that might manifest itself here. I remember a great deal of confusion at that stage.
And if this is the case, I would imagine there's that feeling of altitude above all of us. OT8's are revered in the church, and I'm sure that's what OSI is used to. We're not responding with such reverence, which may be throwing him/her for a loop.
2. OSI is an OSA troll. In this case the cryptic communications and invalidations we're seeing would be part of the plan. . . .(lol-to restimulate for all of us what it was like to be in the COS and subjected to it every day). I would say that the best handling here would be not to take it too seriously, as that's what OSA would want.
3. OSI is doing a drill. Maybe this is just a tech experiment -- some sort of a drill to see how easy it is to "handle" us SP's. See how easy it is to upset us. See what our buttons are. It seems to me that the cryptic and critical posts could be designed to push buttons. It's up to us whether or not we want to play into that.
But the thing is, in any of those cases, there's some sort of a reach (though OSI is going to have to expect some backlash -- you can't treat people like that and expect pure ARC in return. (If this person is OT8 they already know that of course)).
But it doesn't hurt to grant some beingness, just in case the tone of OSI's posts are due to a complete upheaval of his/her world. People who are hurting can behave in very hurtful ways. I learned that from being a parent. When my kids act the nastiest is when they need love and understanding the most.
-TL
True, OT8-still-in has not been demonstrating the basic principles of ARC or anything. There is a condescending attitude there sometimes, and cryptic communications that can be frustrating. It's no wonder that people are responding negatively. I can't blame anyone for that in this case.
The thing to do is maybe look a little deeper. Here are some possibilities:
1. OSI is feeling disgruntled with the COS and trying to get some information. If this is the case, and OSI is really who s/he says, (an OT8) then there has to be a god-awful amount of charge on doing such a thing. Imagine the indoctrination about what SP's we all must be. Try to remember what it was like to muster the courage to finally open your mind and look. I can certainly imagine that there would be some negative emotion -- and a huge internal struggle that might manifest itself here. I remember a great deal of confusion at that stage.
And if this is the case, I would imagine there's that feeling of altitude above all of us. OT8's are revered in the church, and I'm sure that's what OSI is used to. We're not responding with such reverence, which may be throwing him/her for a loop.
2. OSI is an OSA troll. In this case the cryptic communications and invalidations we're seeing would be part of the plan. . . .(lol-to restimulate for all of us what it was like to be in the COS and subjected to it every day). I would say that the best handling here would be not to take it too seriously, as that's what OSA would want.
3. OSI is doing a drill. Maybe this is just a tech experiment -- some sort of a drill to see how easy it is to "handle" us SP's. See how easy it is to upset us. See what our buttons are. It seems to me that the cryptic and critical posts could be designed to push buttons. It's up to us whether or not we want to play into that.
But the thing is, in any of those cases, there's some sort of a reach (though OSI is going to have to expect some backlash -- you can't treat people like that and expect pure ARC in return. (If this person is OT8 they already know that of course)).
But it doesn't hurt to grant some beingness, just in case the tone of OSI's posts are due to a complete upheaval of his/her world. People who are hurting can behave in very hurtful ways. I learned that from being a parent. When my kids act the nastiest is when they need love and understanding the most.
-TL
Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
Sure, it's not going to go over well, and he could be more tactful. But it can be rather difficult to make the adjustment. And you and I both know, I think, that no matter what any individual says or does, no matter how much they may lurk or try to not say or do this or that, one cannot please all the people all the time. I've seen a lot of people who were definitely "all the way out", so to speak, occasionally post stuff that wasn't really any better. That's because we're human.
Anyway, I think we each see where the other person is coming from on this.
Royal Prince Xenu
Trust the Psi Corps.
Just a quick pointer: this drill is intended to be performed with a very fresh (hold's nose) bovine doodoo in the corner of the auditing room.
OT8-still-in
Patron
I marvel at the lack of insight.....
Are each and every one of you opaque to what's going on in Scientology?
Mike Rinder (OSA) defected?
The former head of the RTC (for decades) defected? (Rathbun). ...and running an alternative SCN group now?
Your lack of interest in this tells me VOLUMES about y'all. When a so-called group does not evince enjoyment in what SHOULD BE "wins" for such a group....I then know everything I need to know.
You are not a "group".
You not only do not know WHO you are....you do not even know THAT you are.
Laughing at you from an OT8 perspective,
Sincere regards,
Me
Are each and every one of you opaque to what's going on in Scientology?
Mike Rinder (OSA) defected?
The former head of the RTC (for decades) defected? (Rathbun). ...and running an alternative SCN group now?
Your lack of interest in this tells me VOLUMES about y'all. When a so-called group does not evince enjoyment in what SHOULD BE "wins" for such a group....I then know everything I need to know.
You are not a "group".
You not only do not know WHO you are....you do not even know THAT you are.
Laughing at you from an OT8 perspective,
Sincere regards,
Me
klidov
Silver Meritorious Patron
Clearly you are clueless what ESMB is all about. But, that's o.k.
It will come to you someday.
A Never-Been-In
Feral
Rogue male
OT8, We've known Mike defected, like 18mths ago, and Marty has set up private practice and posted the same on this board.
But thanks for pointing that out to us as well as what your 'OTness' perceives as our shortcomings.
I'm glad you know 'everything you need to know', even if it is based on wrong assumptions. Nothing like certainty, is there?
We are dirt beneath your feet, clearly you are too good for us. We grovel beneath you...
At least you can laugh at your version of our stupidity, eh? Keep on laughing OT boy
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SchwimmelPuckel
Genuine Meatball
Tiger Lily
Gold Meritorious Patron
Actually those things you mentioned about defectors have been celebrated here quite a bit!
We are a group of individuals.
I had a friend who shared his wins with me after he attested to OT8. . . he said that he "fell in love" with the whole world. I don't know if that's a standard experience or not, but it seems interesting to me that someone who has had the "truth revealed" and who has achieved the highest states of awareness would be so derisive. In other religions, people who are "advanced" tend to be very loving and helpful.
OT8 I really appreciate the insights you gave me earlier in pm's -- I found them helpful. But I have to say that I don't understand your sneering attitude. What is the point of being so cryptic and belittling? Are you just trying to convince yourself that you are better than we are? Make us feel bad? If you were secure in your "thetaness" I don't think you would have the need to be so arrogant.
-TL
Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
Hi, OT8-still-in,
Yes, there have been threads and quite a few posts about Rinder and Rathbun on ESMB already.
Yes, there have been threads and quite a few posts about Rinder and Rathbun on ESMB already.
OT8-still-in
Patron
If I'm not cryptic......
If I'm not cryptic......I'm dead.
Also, y'all have the luxury of being OUT of Scientology, and perhaps are not encumbered by having had GAINS from auditing, as well as never having delivered gains to others through auditing.
Therefore you can be freely critical of very aspect of Scientology, without the hindrance of such a minor factor as "responsibility".
I still can't understand those (like most of you here) who brag about being NCGs.
I guess a loser is a loser.
Those who cannot get a case gain easily, probably never DESERVED one.
You know what you have done.
Sincere regards,
OT8-still-in
If I'm not cryptic......I'm dead.
Also, y'all have the luxury of being OUT of Scientology, and perhaps are not encumbered by having had GAINS from auditing, as well as never having delivered gains to others through auditing.
Therefore you can be freely critical of very aspect of Scientology, without the hindrance of such a minor factor as "responsibility".
I still can't understand those (like most of you here) who brag about being NCGs.
I guess a loser is a loser.
Those who cannot get a case gain easily, probably never DESERVED one.
You know what you have done.
Sincere regards,
OT8-still-in
Thrak
Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks OT8 I needed a good laugh. And BTW I did have some gains in scn and delivered some services to others where they seemed to get a lot out of it too. But those little things pale in comparison to the bad effects of being stuck in a mind raping, money grubbing cult.
If you still want scn then there is the FZ. My excuse for staying in so long was I thought it was legit and I didn't know how bad these people really were. As soon as I found out what was really going on I was out the door. What's yours?
If you still want scn then there is the FZ. My excuse for staying in so long was I thought it was legit and I didn't know how bad these people really were. As soon as I found out what was really going on I was out the door. What's yours?
Tiger Lily
Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks OT8; I think I understand better. And I do understand the need for someone who is still in to be cryptic.
A lot of us here have had case gain and great wins in Scientology; that's one of the hardest things to come to terms with as an ex -- you know there was good there; but you also know there was evil. For me, Scientology woke me up spiritually, then it ruined me. It's quite a dichotomy. I'm still working on that. If I "did something", it's buried in my subconscious, because I truly gave it my best in this lifetime anyway. I really don't think it's overts . . . I assumed it was for many years and developed quite a hatred for myself based on the fact that I "must have done something against Ron in a past life"; "I'm not getting case gain anymore, I must be a SP"; I'm bogged on course, wasting church resources, obviously I'm a DB".
Finally I woke up from that, and I won't do it to myself any more. It's a matter of integrity. I finally respect myself again and I'm free of having to agree that I'm some suppressive or worthless individual because I'm bogged on course, or want to be with my family, or can't pay for an intensive. It's been very freeing.
I wish the claims of Scientology had been true for me, but they weren't. That's the ultimate test, right? It's the barometer ever Ron said to use: "If it's true for you. . ."?
Actually I think most people here had case gain at some point, or they wouldn't have committed in the first place to Scientology. I hope I'm not overstepping there.
Your viewpoint on exes is certainly understandable, based on your experience and training. Thanks for explaining. I still don't understand why it's necessary to belittle others, but I do certainly get the mindset that you are in on the subject.
-TL
EP - Ethics Particle
Gold Meritorious Patron
A possible "why" to TL's question...
Hmmmm...lemme see now..."Service Facsimile"...That computation a being uses to make self right and others wrong....there's more, but that's kinda the gist of it. 
"OT8 still in" is "SER-FACn" big time!
EP
Hmmmm...lemme see now..."Service Facsimile"...That computation a being uses to make self right and others wrong....there's more, but that's kinda the gist of it. "OT8 still in" is "SER-FACn" big time!
EP
Tiger Lily
Gold Meritorious Patron
"OT8 still in" is "SER-FACn" big time!
EP
It sure would appear that way, wouldn't it?
OT8 I mean no disrespect by what I'm about to say, but one of the things I really hate about myself when looking back on when I was "in" was my viewpoint that I was somehow better than the stupid ignorant wogs and the ethics-case SP's.
What I found out, to my surprise and joy, was that many "wogs" are really wonderful people who have more love and compassion than most Scientologists, and I've found "exes" to be some of my favorite people of all.
Exes are the ones who had the desire to help and make the world better in the first place, and then the awareness to note when something was really wrong and the strength get themselves out of a bad situation. Many of them paid dearly for that in terms of disconnection and financial loss, but it was a matter of integrity. They regained the love and compassion they lost as Scientologists and truly do know how to grant beingness. It's a good group, really.
TL
Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
I don't think I've seen anyone boasting about being a no case gain but I have seen people laugh at and proudly display their PTS or SP labels/declares from CofS. I believe they do that because they are pleased to no longer be subject to CofS' whims and that it's a way of saying "take your label and shove it."
Please don't insult the contributors here.
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
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