How we realized we were in a cult

[iHateDuplicity]

I hear ya, IHD, but I still think that for the good of their recovery (and in the interest in shortening its length), that people ought to leave rejecting the tech, not thinking it's squirrely. There is so much malice buried in the tech, and so much self delusion, it's far better to stay in $CN a little longer and realize it's tech entirely BS, than to exit early and still spend years chasing rainbows with a pot of shit at the end like Rinder is doing.

Udarnik said the above in reference to getting people out of the cult. He asserts people should reject the tech while still in. I don't think that is entirely possible and I thought this should be its own thread subject. I'm not sure the title of this thread is totally perfect, but it will do. How did we all go about realizing that things were not quite right around us and how did that lead to where we are now?

It's my opinion that few who are now actively involved with Cof$ will realize all of a sudden that the tech is BS, LRH is a con man, Dwarf Midget is Satan (LOL) and they need to get the hell out right now. I think it's usually a bit more gradual. My own path went something as follows and I am curious if anyone would contribute how their's was similar or different:

(1) realize that something is wrong with Cof$ management and its current programs;
(2) protest against this;
(3) find out your protests are being met with stony silence or worse attacks against you, ethics interviews, justice, etc.;
(4) start to break out of the cult think and realize something is REALLY wrong;
(5) distance yourself from the whole thing;
(6) start seeing more outnesses and illogicality in the operation;
(7) if not done already, start investigating on other channels such as the internet to see if there is other data to substantiate or explain the outnesses you spotted;
(8) be shocked and awed by the wealth of data you find outside the Cof$ about its abuses, things you never ever suspected were going on;
(9) realize that you have been being lied to a lot more than you ever imagined was possible;
(10) question the very integrity of the technology that you thought was going to set you free forever;
(11) question the integrity of the source of this technology;
(12) stop being a True Believer;
(13) realize with shock that you were actually in a cult;
(14) finally break free entirely from the cult mindset entirely.

Thoughts?

 

[In present time]

all i can say is i left the church, and didn't know until almost 25 years later that it was a cult and a completle mind fuck.
even when i found things written on the internet, i still thought they were a bunch of nattering nabobs that couldn't toe the line in regards to saving the planet.
i am not proud of that, but i do realise that when trying to deal with the "still ins"... the fact is that a lot of people who are "out" even still are brainwashed.
i think your list is spot on.
i left in about 84/86 from the organised church, but in 2010 i found marty's blog and was seriously thinking of trying to cure scientology with scientology.
hard for me to believe now, looking back.
it has only been a few years ago that i stopped being paranoid about having done the sweat programme AND the purif. as i was thinking i might survive a nuclear war... which i don't really want to do, if every one i love is dead.
i know, i know. crazy talk, but that is really how i was thinking.

 

[Lurker5]

I think it is a process, of peeling off layers, like on an onion, one thin layer at a time, and it takes a long long time. If someone leaves with disdain for the tech, I think they are in better shape for recovery, than those who chase the pipe-dream for any number of years . . .

Everyone is in a different place when they leave, and that is where they START. It is ALWAYS a GOOD THING when they leave . . . . Get 'em OUT, and then guide them towards recovery. They will move forward at their own speed. Some folks are seriously damaged, either going in, and scno/tech makes it worse, or scno/tech does the damage. And some folks never make the realization and recover.

Whatever, there will always be those who can't move past it, but at least they are OUT. When real life is experienced, it dilutes the tech anyway, - corrupts it, ya might say, so it ain't so evil. But yeah, practiced outside, like it was inside, is evil - and I can only hope that as the shit of scno recreates itself, more and more people will realize it is inherent in the tech. The evil is built right into it . . . and get the hell out and away from it forever.

We can only do what we can do, the rest is up to them. Some don't make the journey.

 

[guanoloco]

WHAT!?!?!?!?

Scientology is a cult?

 

[In present time]

WHAT!?!?!?!?

Scientology is a cult?

that's what I keep hearing.

 

[MrNobody]

all i can say is i left the church, and didn't know until almost 25 years later that it was a cult and a completle mind fuck.
even when i found things written on the internet, i still thought they were a bunch of nattering nabobs that couldn't toe the line in regards to saving the planet.
i am not proud of that, but i do realise that when trying to deal with the "still ins"... the fact is that a lot of people who are "out" even still are brainwashed.
i think your list is spot on.
i left in about 84/86 from the organised church, but in 2010 i found marty's blog and was seriously thinking of trying to cure scientology with scientology.
hard for me to believe now, looking back.(my bold)
it has only been a few years ago that i stopped being paranoid about having done the sweat programme AND the purif. as i was thinking i might survive a nuclear war... which i don't really want to do, if every one i love is dead.
i know, i know. crazy talk, but that is really how i was thinking.

(my bold)

Well, I think one important step in "saving the planet" would be to get rid of anything hubbardian, including $cientology.

 

[Udarnik]

I was thinking of this in terms of Young Earth Creationism. At first they rejected the dinosaurs as hoaxes. Then they said they were killed in the Flood and attacked geological dating. Now the Creation museum is postulating that T-Rex ate coconuts in the Garden of Eden.

It's not just moving the goalposts back - sometimes they move them forward again when you're not looking.

But you are probably right. Getting them out of the financial grip of the church, overcoming the conditioning against thinking for themselves, is probably goal number one.

But I can't help but think some of the clearer and stronger minds would do best to come out questioning everything, as many former Christian Athiests do. Is that indeed impossible for all but a vanishingly small number?

 

[In present time]

christian atheist? really, is that thing?

 

[Udarnik]

christian atheist? really, is that thing?

(former Christian) Atheist. (In the mathematical sense of the parentheses )

 

[La La Lou Lou]

I dared not think it was a cult for ages after I left.

I think we all leave in different ways. Some were never really in even though they were in the SO and some never left even though they've been out for decades.

Also part of me believed it while other parts of me saw it as evil, some part of me knew there was evil being done but thought that it was still wonderful, part of me wanted to get out of there right now and part of me just couldn't bear to even think of it. It is amazing how many different viewpoints you can entertain at the same time and still appear vaguely sane.

 

[Terril park]

.......

(1) realize that something is wrong with Cof$ management and its current programs;

(

I'm in a minority in that I never really had a bad experience in Scn until
the reason I left.

I had major wins on FPRD self elected. Expressed some doubt re clear.
Had already been declared clear re DSCI.

So down to St Hill to do CCRD. Eventually declared not clear. I protested
and was then declared clear. Possibly the last acked natural clear in 1991.
This whole cycle was traumatic.

It was clear to me that I could never again recieve auditing in CO$ that was
for my benefit. I never returned.

8 years later I got a computer and searched Scn. I was horrified!

Became a critic. Very soon afterwards I started to promote Scn tech, which I still do.

 

[Free to shine]

This is a thread I started when I was new - check the link to Arnie Lerma's 8 Steps of Leaving scientology.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ing-Scientology&highlight=leaving+scientology

 

[Idle Morgue]

I'm in a minority in that I never really had a bad experience in Scn until
the reason I left.

I had major wins on FPRD self elected. Expressed some doubt re clear.
Had already been declared clear re DSCI.

So down to St Hill to do CCRD. Eventually declared not clear. I protested
and was then declared clear. Possibly the last acked natural clear in 1991.
This whole cycle was traumatic.

It was clear to me that I could never again recieve auditing in CO$ that was
for my benefit. I never returned.

8 years later I got a computer and searched Scn. I was horrified!

Became a critic. Very soon afterwards I started to promote Scn tech, which I still do.

Wait a minute- let me see if I have this right...

You doubted you were clear after you attested to clear then off to St Hill to be declared not clear then after a protest you were declared clear and in 1991 was declared a natural clear?

I wonder if you were past life clear, dianetic clear, clear clear or just plain ole clear? That may be the confusion - a "natural clear" does not make much money for the Cult! You may be clear - but I am confused about your clearing to clear... sounds like the tek is confused as to what a clear is...

And you said it was TRAUMATIC?

And you think the tek works?

Oh, if it is standardly applied....I see!

 

[iHateDuplicity]

This is a thread I started when I was new - check the link to Arnie Lerma's 8 Steps of Leaving scientology.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ing-Scientology&highlight=leaving+scientology

Wow. Well I guess I'm following in Arnie's footsteps because I'd never seen that post before or Arnie's 8 steps. The things I wrote out in my OP today I just came up with right off the top of my head based solely on exactly what happened to me as I moved away from the cult. Interesting that they paralleled your 8 steps and the things Arnie said. Guess I was more right about this than I thought. Thanks for the referral to your earlier post.

 

[kate8024]

sounds like the tek is confused as to what a clear is...

You can say that again!

 

[ClearedSP]

I like that list, and I like Arnie's a lot, but I think there's considerable variation based on background. Personally, I skipped a number of steps. Mine went:

1. Get ordered to do something that doesn't sound sane.

2. Trace the order back to Hubbard.

3. There's no point in filing any reports, so just GTFO.

4. Living outside the bubble, get exposed to all kinds of ideas that don't mesh with scientology, including ones which convincingly refute parts of it. Notice that your supposedly permanent case state, isn't.

5. Observe that your life's better out than in, and abandon any idea of going back.

6. Now that you're a wog, and totally free, read entheta. Have your mind blown. Start analyzing how you were scammed.

7. Look up old cult friends, and find that disproportionately many of those who stayed in are bankrupt, mentally and/or physically unwell, or dead.

8. Start making amends. However pure one's intentions may have been, once you know that something you went to the most extreme lengths to help, ruined or killed your friends, you've got some karmic 'splainin' to do.

 

[clamicide]

I don't know... for me, it was going back in "a new unit of time" (lol) over the stuff that got me in, and going... oh... wtf...

and yes, then trying to reconcile that all these amazing folks who were actually intelligent were along for the ride, so I was missing something.... some of the most brilliant people I've met were folks hooked into the cult, and therefore, I thought it couldn't possibly be a cult.

I seriously only realized years later after I'd been ordered to leave because I bucked the system, my son disconnected, and I was uprooted and wound up homeless and started reading about cults... (yeah, stupid me)

btw, totally worth it. I'm in a good place now, but I had those days being homeless where I thought to myself "fuck, at least I'm not in the cult anymore".

 

[Reasonable]

• Even when I was in I thought it was a cult. I had looked up the definition of Cult and it had something to do with following the ideal of a single person etc.
• So I thought it was a cult but by that definition I thought many religions were cults.
• In fact when people told me I was in a cult I said that is true. So are you.
• Then I learned about the other definition of a cult in which you add being ostracized and you are not allowed to think for yourself and how you get love bombed on the way in all those other criteria.
• Again....I think this also applies to other religions but fewer than my original criteria for a cult.
• Then I found out about the severity of the disconnection and and the RPF etc that it was an evil cult.
• That was the difference for me.
• I still think it is a religion a philosophy and a cult an evil cult

 

[TrevAnon]

https://www.google.com/search?q=steps+getting+out+of+a+cult

gives me a lot, like

http://www.wikihow.com/Leave-a-Cult

http://www.thefix.com/content/12-steps-rehabs-cults-abuse8851?page=all

and moar.

 

[poppy]

Haven't posted on here for a long time so 'Hello' again. This topic is something I'm quite interested in because I struggle to understand how, in this day and age, with access to a wealth of criticism against Scientology, anyone who has found the strength to leave can still believe in the 'tech'. I admit to being somewhat of a hypocrite as I still believed in the 'tech' when and after I left Scientology but that was almost 20 years ago when it wasn't so easy to find out the truth about Scientology. I find it quite astonishing that even people on this board still believe in and promote the 'tech' but each to their own and all that - I just don't get it.

I would like to share my personal journey to discovering not only that the 'tech' (ALL of it) is complete and utter crap but that it in fact underpins and facilitates all use of control, manipulation and abuse in Scientology. For example, TR's - TR0 Bullbait trains you to silently receive the abuse they inflict upon you and then repress the emotional responses to that abuse.

As I've said before, I'm a 2nd generation ex-scn and ex-s.o. member. I first decided to leave the S.O. in my late teens because I was incredibly unhappy. The beginning of my 'awaking' was simply that I felt very confused and couldn't understand why I was so unhappy when Scientology told me that I should be happy in Scientology. The first time I tried to leave the S.O. I actually thought that I was the problem, there must be something wrong with me for me to be so unhappy in Scientology and so I thought I was doing the right thing for Scn and the S.O. if I left. It took me 2 years, several attempts and MUCH abuse and harassment to get out of the S.O., to this day I don't really understand why leaving was made so difficult for me when others seemed to get away more easily. I guess part of the problem was me, in the sense that I tried to leave and maintain good standing because I didn't want to loose my family. Now, I realise how sad that was. By the time I left I was so angry with the way I was treated but even then, I still believed whole heartedly in the tech, but at that point I thought the management were at fault, 'out-tech' 'off-policy' bla bla etc and I thought if Hubbard only knew ..... About a year after I left I watched a documentary about Scientology, I knew the abuses they talked of were true because I'd either seen them or experienced them but I was surprised to learn the truth about Hubbard and if he could lie about himself and his background then he could lie about anything. I was devastated to discover the man I had grown up revering and believing in was nothing but a manipulative, narcissistic con-man. I still needed confirmation though and the next day I rang a governmental advice line and asked if Scientology was a Cult and their answer was YES. After that I read as much as I could get my hands on and many hours and years of counselling later and here I am.

There is no truth in Scientology, it is a multi-layered system of lies and deception used to control and abuse.

And by the way, there is no psychotherapy in Scientology - as mentioned on another thread.