A Pair of Worn Shoes
- Thread starter Veda
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Anonycat
Crusader
And thanks for this, and other dox in this thread (and the lovely Leaf story) This kind of stark evidence of Hubbard's capacity for vicious immorality, combined with his pathological thirst for power, makes me feel an overwhelming relief that he was never in a position of political authority. Can you imagine if this man had run a country instead of a "religion?" You have a horrible man who inspires fanatical loyalty and wants to make a historical impression... All I can think is that, as awful as it's been - it could have been much worse. Which makes the R&R attempt to boost and Harness the power of the LRH legacy that much more sinister to me.
And yeah, the tortured Rinder treatment of the Van Gogh comparison ... Awkward fail. To normal people, that is: As Veda pointed out, getting to inject a tone of fake artsy-intellectualism among the sycophants is a partial win.
oh, and:
^This, as always.
He used to lecture on disposing of a type of person or other. Killing. He was insane on a large scale; fee-based world domination.
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...
Apparently, Mike Rinder has clarified the ambiguity in referring to L. Ron Hubbard as a madman.
Apparently, Mike Rinder has clarified the ambiguity in referring to L. Ron Hubbard as a madman.
HelluvaHoax!
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Hmmmm, you don't seem to know very much about history.
Let's see how your logic works in the real world instead of the theta universe, where everything is.....theta.
Your quote--let's apply that to another person and another time. World War II (1939-1945) comes to mind. Let's compare and see how your philosophy works.
How serious ron was in ordering "R2-45" is a matter of conjecture.
How serious Adolph was in ordering "The Final Solution" in his 1925 book Mein Kampf is a matter of conjecture.
How serious Adolph was in ordering "The Final Solution" in his 1925 book Mein Kampf is a matter of conjecture.
Hubbard also had his own manifesto and it was called Mein KSW.
It also had a final solution (albeit not for Jews & Gypsies) for low toned people who were not part of the master race of Homo Novus. Hubbard was quite specific what was to be done with person's "below 2 on the tone scale" and voluminous "scripture" is filled with his "Fair Game" policies. Even his early 50's book Science of Survival explicitly gave a roadmap to get rid of homosexuals, critics, journalists, mental health professionals and whistleblowers ("gossipers") by "disposing of them without sorrow".
"There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the Tone Scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow." - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL
"The sudden and abrupt deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the Tone Scale from the social order would result in an almost instant rise in the cultural tone and would interrupt the dwindling spiral into which any society may have entered." - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL
"A Venezuelan dictator once decided to stop leprosy. He saw that most lepers in his country were also beggars. By the simple expedient of collecting and destroying all the beggars in Venezuela an end was put to leprosy in that country." - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL
"Unfortunately, it is all too often true that suppressors to a creative action must be removed before construction and creation takes place. Any person very high on the Tone Scale may level destruction toward a suppressor." - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL
Frankly, anyone who reads Hubbard's "Final Solution" tech like R2-45 and tries to label it "conjecture" as to whether Ron was serious or not is either a facilitator, a dupe or a co-conspirator. Commander Birdsong, when you cross the line into becoming an enabler for Hubbard's sociopathy, you deserve to have the spotlight thrown on you and what you are trying to do.
Whatever it is that you are trying to do, it isn't working. Hubbard and his criminal terror cult has already been debunked and you'd best come out of the underground bunker you are holed up in. Hey, Berlin has fallen! [STRIKE]Hitler[/STRIKE] Hubbard is dead! Come on out, the city is being rebuilt.
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I concur.
Most of us know that this is not a joke - LRH was never joking when acting upon his ''dangerous ennemies'' wich where mankind ennemies for attempting to harm the manking messiah.....
But let's say it's not serious - or he's joking
or the evil psychs infiltrated his command line
Here is another very good example
L. Ron Hubbard explains how to handle "low-toned" people
Science of Survival: Prediction of Human Behavior - by L Ron Hubbard
"The Scientology religion is based exclusively upon L. Ron Hubbard's research, writings and recorded lectures —
all of which constitute the Scriptures of the religion"
''The reasonable man quite ordinarily overlooks the fact that people from 2.0 down have no traffic with reason and cannot be reasoned with as one would reason with a 3.0. There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the tone scale , neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the tone scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes .
The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow. Adders are safe bedmates compared to people on the lower bands of the tone scale. Not all the beauty nor the handsomeness nor artificial social value nor property can atone for the vicious damage such people do to sane men and women. The sudden and abrupt deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the tone scale from the social order would result in an almost instant rise in the cultural tone and would interrupt the dwindling spiral into which any society may have entered. It is not necessary to produce a world of clears in order to have a reasonable and worthwhile social order; it is only necessary to delete those individuals who range from 2.0 down, either by processing them enough to get their tone level above the 2.0 line — a task which, indeed, is not very great, since the amount of processing in many cases might be under fifty hours, although it might also in others be in excess of two hundred — or simply quarantining them from the society.
A Venezuelan dictator [Juan Vincente Gomez ] once decided to stop leprosy. He saw that most lepers in his country were also beggars. By the simple expedient of collecting and destroying all the beggars in Venezuela an end was put to leprosy in that country.''
End of LRH quote
Ah Ah Ah
What a good joke
A great stand-up comic !
Almost perfect imitation of Hitler
Only replace ''low tone people from 2.0 down'' with ''jewish''
A pair of Worn boots
Excellent!
I had not seen your great post and just put up something almost identical with quotes from Science of Survival and analogies to Hitler's 1925 "scripture" Mein Kampf.
Both madmen, Hitler/Hubbard, clearly specified in writing what their "Final Solution" was for the Jews/Wogs. THEY WROTE OUT THEIR CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD TO SEE!
The only people who don't know that are "knowing how to know" Scientologists.
PTS
Elliott
The thread title was so promising, perhaps a grand philosophical adventure. When I took the time to read it I couldn't have been more disappointed.
I believe that abusing a four year old child by locking him up in a ship's chain locker precludes a person from ever being remembered as one who influenced the world for the better.
And if they forget this I'll goddam well be there to goddam well remind them.
What stupid stupid stupid
this is and it makes me mad as hell that anyone wants to promote this modern cult monster as anything but a cruel scheming megalomaniac.
I believe that abusing a four year old child by locking him up in a ship's chain locker precludes a person from ever being remembered as one who influenced the world for the better.
And if they forget this I'll goddam well be there to goddam well remind them.
What stupid stupid stupid
this is and it makes me mad as hell that anyone wants to promote this modern cult monster as anything but a cruel scheming megalomaniac.
Mick Wenlock
Admin Emeritus (retired)
Good to see old simple minded Mike making a horse's ass out of himself.
if my "suppressive things" would have caused hubbards PTSness - well wow, I would be happy indeed to know that you think HUbbard was my bitch.
Gib
Crusader
Good to see old simple minded Mike making a horse's ass out of himself.
if my "suppressive things" would have caused hubbards PTSness - well wow, I would be happy indeed to know that you think HUbbard was my bitch.
Hey Mick, this is off tropic question but do you have a write-up here on ESMB or elsewhere on the formation of the IAS and who all was involved? All the names of people involved in it's formation. the debbie cook facebook message from last year mentioned there are only two memberships, namely yearly and lifetime.
I'd like to read the write-up if it exists.
Anonycat
Crusader
And if Ron really was connected with a SP? Easy. Ron could have gone back to repeat his birth, or just jump in to his body at any given point, and eliminate the SP. Anyway, if Ron died cold, alone, and in the dark of his mobile home, it probably wasn't due to any naughty wizards in Creston. Last time I was in Creston, there wasn't even a stoplight. So Ron being an OT gazillion should have "improved conditions" within a good radius of his mobile home. But no, that old OT list of results never came true. Ron was in crap physical condition, and died in a freakish reclusive paranoia. His trail of mental illness is as evident as his ridiculously promised results of his classes ... er, religion.
CommunicatorIC
@IndieScieNews on Twitter
I looked. As far as I can tell, Hoaxy came up with it using his Hoax Tech.Did Rinder REALLY say this or did Hoaxy come up with it using his channeling tech?
(sometimes it's difficult to tell)
I knew it was satire -- or thought I knew; I still had to check, didn't I? -- but was afraid some people would believe it was a real quotation. Mis-attributing something to Mike Rinder, and having people believe it, is not helpful. It is potentially harmful.
Interestingly, the Los Angeles Time dealt with the same problem today: Our immodest proposal.
.
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Type4_PTS
Diamond Invictus SP
Yeah, from that letter from the Op-Ed Ediitor:
I did recognize the alleged post of Mike Rinder as satire when I had originally read it, but see how others could take it seriously.
Wants2Talk
Silver Meritorious Patron
R+R and other independents should take the time to read some Heidegger. I have gone back to school after dropping out to help Survival across the eight dynamics (which as Veda says meant to ensure the world saw that Hubbard=survival). Over the last three months I have read (sometimes scanned) a few thousand pages of philosophy and art criticism(history/theory).
I like Heidegger. He earnestly applied phenomenology to an examination of being.
Unlike what you might think, he found just every-day-life to be profound.
A tolerance for criticism is requirement if you want to participate in the academic life. Knowledge is forwarded by the dialectic of thesis and counter-thesis (or criticism). Hubbard was too afraid to play the 20th-century-philosopher-game with the other thinkers who read the works of others, published their thoughts (with citations) and became part of a critically analytical discussion. Hubbard was never academically published. I tried humorously citing study-tech in a semiology paper and received the comment: "Don't go there!"
http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/article/180561
In this way, he suggests, the Van Gogh painting demonstrates the double purpose of art. Art confronts us with "the earth"—the sensuous reality of the non-human, which we tend to forget or ignore when we are engaged in practical tasks. At the same time, art sets the earth into "the world"—the historical human context in which we work, suffer, and hope. Artworks can perform this unique function because they themselves have a double nature. They cannot exist without matter, and they always have physical properties—music is formed sound, painting is formed color. But they also do not exist simply in matter, the way utilitarian objects do. Rather, they simultaneously transcend their material and allow their material to be itself for the first time. When we look at a Greek temple, Heidegger writes, we understand the weight and color of marble, in a way that we can't when we're just looking a rock quarry.
It's striking that Heidegger dwells on two examples of artworks—the Van Gogh painting and the Greek temple—neither of which are poems. And the dichotomy of earth and world, which seems to suit painting and architecture very well, is hard to apply to poetry, whose material—language—is quite intangible. Yet he continues to insist that poetry "has a privileged position in the domain of the arts." How does he resolve this seeming paradox?
I like Heidegger. He earnestly applied phenomenology to an examination of being.
Unlike what you might think, he found just every-day-life to be profound.
A tolerance for criticism is requirement if you want to participate in the academic life. Knowledge is forwarded by the dialectic of thesis and counter-thesis (or criticism). Hubbard was too afraid to play the 20th-century-philosopher-game with the other thinkers who read the works of others, published their thoughts (with citations) and became part of a critically analytical discussion. Hubbard was never academically published. I tried humorously citing study-tech in a semiology paper and received the comment: "Don't go there!"
http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/article/180561
In this way, he suggests, the Van Gogh painting demonstrates the double purpose of art. Art confronts us with "the earth"—the sensuous reality of the non-human, which we tend to forget or ignore when we are engaged in practical tasks. At the same time, art sets the earth into "the world"—the historical human context in which we work, suffer, and hope. Artworks can perform this unique function because they themselves have a double nature. They cannot exist without matter, and they always have physical properties—music is formed sound, painting is formed color. But they also do not exist simply in matter, the way utilitarian objects do. Rather, they simultaneously transcend their material and allow their material to be itself for the first time. When we look at a Greek temple, Heidegger writes, we understand the weight and color of marble, in a way that we can't when we're just looking a rock quarry.
It's striking that Heidegger dwells on two examples of artworks—the Van Gogh painting and the Greek temple—neither of which are poems. And the dichotomy of earth and world, which seems to suit painting and architecture very well, is hard to apply to poetry, whose material—language—is quite intangible. Yet he continues to insist that poetry "has a privileged position in the domain of the arts." How does he resolve this seeming paradox?
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
I disagree just on this one point ... I've no doubt hubbard meant what he clearly meant (go get the 'SP's' for me, losers) but if it'd been done (especially if to a known enemy) he would've had the shooter hauled off to the law so fast he or she wouldn't have known which way was up or which was down. Then he'd have had it presented to all and sundry as a 'win' ... he'd have got his target topped and the cofs would have demonstrated how 'ethical' and law abiding it was as a bit of a side bonus.
He was leading people to do his dirty work but would have done what his besotted adorers are still doing to this day and exclaimed in horror that he meant it as a joke ... and any gormless person that 'misunderstood' and actually shot someone would have been toast, because even if the killer had done it without becoming a suspect ... it could always come out at some point later on, which would have been even worse PR wise.
Tubs hubbard was probably still practicing his entrapment tek in 68' and refined it later on ...
Type4_PTS
Diamond Invictus SP
I wouldn't be surprised if Hubbard threw some people under the bus just as you described, not at all. But I get that he also considered these people valuable if they were going after his enemies, as Hubbard describes in HCO PL "The Responsibility of Leaders":
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
Yep ... that's more of his entrapment tek (lol) but at some point, I believe he would've made sure the killers were dobbed in (probably after they'd done enough of his 'enemies' in though).
Type4_PTS
Diamond Invictus SP
Yep ... that's more of his entrapment tek (lol) but at some point, I believe he would've made sure the killers were dobbed in (probably after they'd done enough of his 'enemies' in though).
That sounds about right. He didn't seem to have much loyalty to those who helped him the most and eventually even threw Mary Sue under the bus once he determined it was the "greatest good".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White
