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Hubbard's Axioms & Logics

Vinaire

Sponsor
I have now finished reading the Beginner's Guide for Trom. It explains the basic formula of TROM quite nicely.

TROM seems to limit itself to the subject of GAMES. At this point I am wondering if anything falls outside the consideration of games. Well, I'll find that out in due course.

I shall start anew with the main book.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
It appears that Dennis felt damaged by Scientology in 1962. He then left the Scientology organization in 1965. Does anyone have details on what happened?

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fnx3

Patron with Honors
It appears that Dennis felt damaged by Scientology in 1962. He then left the Scientology organization in 1965. Does anyone have details on what happened?

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On that "TromHelp" website that I referred you to the other day Vinaire, you will find audio files of Dennis explaining just what happened. :)

 

RogerB

Crusader
It appears that Dennis felt damaged by Scientology in 1962. He then left the Scientology organization in 1965. Does anyone have details on what happened?

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As I have it, basically, he got "Hubbardized" like all the others who showed real talent.

In the early days we all wanted to contribute. Hubbard really was not into accepting that . . . he could steal the discoveries of others and call it his own, but he could not accept nor honor another's talent.

And hence, Dennis got "betrayed" like all the rest of the stellar names of the old days.

R
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
The key premise of TROM is:

THE ANALYTICAL FACULTY OF THE MIND CAN DO WHAT THE REACTIVE PART OF THE MIND IS DOING.

The key automaticity of the mind, observably, is

TAKE THINGS OUT OF THE PAST AND BRING THEM INTO THE PRESENT AND PUT THEM BACK OUT INTO THE PAST AGAIN... REPEATEDLY.

So, TROM's effort is as follows:

TEACH A PERSON TO REPEATEDLY TAKE THINGS OUT OF THE PAST AND BRING THEM INTO THE PRESENT AND PUT THEM BACK OUT INTO THE PAST AGAIN.

TROM's believes that if a person can do that then he will regain control over any reactivity.

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uniquemand

Unbeliever
I printed out TROM's stuff way back in 1996 from the old freezone america site, along with al the other stuff that was available back then through that site. I'm glad that freezone earth is still providing it all. :)

I don't use any of it any more, but timebreaking seemed interesting.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Here is some interesting data from Dennis (TROM):

The actual legs, the actual postulates of the true GPMs aren't in the reactive bank. They're in the analytical mind. If you search in the bank, you will do it all wrong.

It is an analytical construct, so they're in the analytical mind. All that is in the bank is a mish-mash of wrong opposers. The lies. The truth is in the analytical mind.

So the mistake Ron made on the subject of goals was to look into a mass of lies, in the bank, for the truth. That is why the search went on forever, and why he nearly killed himself in the 1960s.


Now this is very interesting. Ron himself had stated in SCN 8-8008:

There is no more tragic track than the sordid ransacking of facsimiles to discover TRUTH for all one discovers is what is true for the MEST universe. This wandering and endless trail is bleak with the bones of lost beingness. Earlier explorers have, almost without exception, destroyed themselves in this search for TRUTH in the MEST universe, for all they discovered was further and further agreement and more and more facsimiles and all they achieved as individuals were the traps and snake-pits of implants on the whole track.

Is the endless handling of BTs on OT VII a trap similar to looking for truth in the reactive mind?

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Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
So, TROM's effort is as follows:

TEACH A PERSON TO REPEATEDLY TAKE THINGS OUT OF THE PAST AND BRING THEM INTO THE PRESENT AND PUT THEM BACK OUT INTO THE PAST AGAIN.

TROM's believes that if a person can do that then he will regain control over any reactivity.

.

I use time-shifting as one option out of fifteen in discharging a topic in my HeavyDuty PaulsRobot module. It involves taking an incident or series of incidents (you can do a bunch of incidents at a time) and rocking it (them) back and forth in time from its initial time tag, starting with a tiny, tiny time increment like a millisecond, and gradually working up to seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years etc etc until you can push it waaaaaaay back and waaaaaaay forward on the track, back to (and beyond) the beginning of time and in the future to (and beyond) the end of time. It helps in discharging the incident(s). BUT, big BUT, I found that it only works when the incident(s) are nearly discharged in the first place. If they are more heavily charged, they won't shift at all. Not a nanosecond.

So, if you can do this TROM trick of picking up an incident and pulling it fully into present time straight off then it wasn't heavily charged in the first place. So you can shift last Christmas's breakfast around. Big deal. :)

Paul
 

fnx3

Patron with Honors
I use time-shifting as one option out of fifteen in discharging a topic in my HeavyDuty PaulsRobot module.
So, if you can do this TROM trick of picking up an incident and pulling it fully into present time straight off then it wasn't heavily charged in the first place. So you can shift last Christmas's breakfast around. Big deal. :)

Paul

Just as we, my husband & I, also found on the lower levels Paul :) - but it is on Level 5 & the use of the Postulate Failure Chart that you apparently stimulate the unconscious moments. My husband wasn't interested enough to continue & my brain needed some renovation.

When I did start it I got about 2/3 the way thru once with nothing coming up at all - so I asked on the TROM list about this & the general consensus is that you have to go round quite a few times before anything may come up :confused2:
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
TROM states:

“So maybe the problem would crack if the person, on a do-it-yourself basis, were to take things out of his past and bring them into the present and put them back out into the past again, and bring them into the present......to learn how to do consciously, what his reactive mind does automatically, to start to take over the automaticity.”


What does it mean to take things out of past and bring them into the present and put them back out into the past again? Basically, it is freeing up one’s attention from some fixation. What is that fixation?

Fixation seems to be the idea that experience is fixed in time. That fixation goes away when one can move one’s experience around in time.

This means isolating the long term concepts of the experience that are applicable independent of time.

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marty

Patron with Honors
<snip>

There is a short list of "Do’s and Don’ts" to guide you on your way. You ignore them at your peril.

1. Don’t attempt the exercises while your body is tired, hungry, suffering from disease or dietary deficiency, or while under the influence of drugs or medication (including alcohol).

2. The exercises are done with the bodys’ eyes open at all times.

3. Do the exercises alone, away from interruptions or distractions[/COLOR]

I was stunned as I didn't recall reading that either, when I had read right thru it prior to starting. I would definitely fit Dennis's exclusions as per being "tired" & having a "disease" which causes "dietary deficiencies" as per physical condition.

<snip>
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fnx3

Have you monitored your bodies ph levels, might be something worth looking into?

http://ezinearticles.com/?How-Body-pH-Can-Affect-Your-Energy-Levels&id=4670
 

Ali.G

Patron
Axiom 1: Life is basically a static
Life seems too bloody lively to be a static!

(Wayward kids!!)

:yes:

Hey, resurrecting an old post (but in a young thread).

To me Axiom 1 should be interpreted as "the Thetan" is basically a static.

And I believe the word static is correct and meaningful because the properties of a thetan cannot be fundamentally changed. So a thetan can attach to things, case, mental images etc, but will never be ruined, at most "temporarily impaired/modified". You can always recover your original state.

A thetan is also a static because it is the utmost form of order. While MEST is chaos, which is a form of disorganized motion, the Thetan is a static in that, by not being physical and by not being able to get his abilities permanently impaired, it cannot change/be changed in its basic fundamental form. Therefore from this perspective it is a static.

The nice thing about being a static is that in some way it means a thetan can persevere at will and hold a position (of order) without getting the risk to get degraded. From this perspective theta should prevail on anything happening in the MEST universe as things degrade. Theta fundamentally doesn't.

If a person recognizes his inner self as theta and not matter it is thus much stronger than the environment, and can change it just by holding on effortlessly on his/her postulates.

Does anything of this make sense? I know I somehow operate on a lower level than people who take axioms on their most theoretical and pure form, but I believe concepts and truths must be put in play and be intertwined with reality to get to a full and practical understanding of their meaning. I don't remember it perfectly, but there exists a nice painting about Aristotle and Plato where one points his finger to the sky and one to the Earth. To me this is how theta and MEST, theory and practice are both important. I guess that theta has to first mix with MEST, only in this way it will realize what it really is. Which reminds me as well of the book "Siddartha" and of ying and yang.

The greatest of thetans is not the one that is fully pure. It is the one that is pure but is willing and actually enjoys as well to mesh with dirt, as he knows what he fundamentally is, that his abilities won't ever be lost, and that experience is nice.

I am one of those thetans though that doesn't believe or want Nirvana or OT XV as the complete dissolution of oneself on the eight dynamics. To me the tone scale must be experienced in full, mostly operating in the 4-40, but willing to express at times all other wavelenghts. Guys, life is a nice game! The day I will recover my full potential, I will keep on living, drop this body when it's time to, and pick another one! Probably willingly forgetting my past life and starting anew. There is a reason why we like movies: we are powerful beings and pandetermination renders the game boring. We want at least a little of uncertainty and the chance that "anything can happen". In reality, like with films, we know there's a script, but while watching it is just better to forget it! ^^
 

Ali.G

Patron
Very funny, brilliant connection! ^^

I'll have to find this movie in my language, I went to a lyrics site but there are many words I don't understand... incidentally, there was a scientology.org advertisment there...

Looks like a very nice musical.
 
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