John Mc Master - Thoughts, Memories, & Recordings

[Mark A. Baker]

Hubbard's mistress ...

In light of the fact that John McMaster was a very loving individual who sought to be forgiving towards others, and who believed in his heart that the greatest overt a person could commit was by allowing himself to be the brunt of another's overt, believing that by doing so he allowed the other to become degraded as a being.

John was clearly an individual who was concerned about creating a nurturing environment and safe space for others. He was not interested in seeking revenge, or the vilification of others, as made clear by his own express refusal to speak badly of Hubbard out of anger during his life.

Thus, seeing as the purpose of this thread is as memorial and living testament to John's memory ...

Let's keep this thread about John McMaster and the impact and influence John has had on scientology and the world.

There are many existing venues intended to draw public attention to the villainies of L. Ron Hubbard, V. Give this one thread a rest and confine you remarks to those which John would himself have enjoyed to see. Do it for John's sake.


Mark A. Baker

 

[degraded being]

In light of the fact that John McMaster was a very loving individual who sought to be forgiving towards others, and who believed in his heart that the greatest overt a person could commit was by allowing himself to be the brunt of another's overt, believing that by doing so he allowed the other to become degraded as a being.

John was clearly an individual who was concerned about creating a nurturing environment and safe space for others. He was not interested in seeking revenge, or the vilification of others, as made clear by his own express refusal to speak badly of Hubbard out of anger during his life.

Thus, seeing as the purpose of this thread is as memorial and living testament to John's memory ...

Let's keep this thread about John McMaster and the impact and influence John has had on scientology and the world.

There are many existing venues intended to draw public attention to the villainies of L. Ron Hubbard, V. Give this one thread a rest and confine you remarks to those which John would himself have enjoyed to see. Do it for John's sake.


Mark A. Baker

Do it for John's sake?
Are you John?
Who are you to say what is for his sake? He's dead so he can't say what he thinks about people who say things that YOU think they shouldn't say about L.Ron Hubbard. Are you trying to use John and the positive reputation he has to sanitise scientology?

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... He's dead so he can't say what he thinks about people who say things that YOU think they shouldn't say about L.Ron Hubbard. ...

Listen to what John actually did have to say and then see if you can understand.

John McMaster was very good at communicating his views on the subject of loving.


Mark A. Baker

 

[degraded being]

Listen to what John actually did have to say and then see if you can understand.

John McMaster was very good at communicating his views on the subject of loving.


Mark A. Baker

The reason John McMaster is "here, now, with us" is because he was a scientologist.
Who are you to play boss-man about what people should or shouldn't say about THEIR experiences, thoughts, attitudes, emotions about John McMaster or scientology things. You want everyone to line their thoughts up for inspection so that you can arrange that what they say will fit YOUR opinions. John ended up feeling fairly bitter about LRH didn't he? Try some loving yourself by letting people express THEIR views and not trying to reign them in. If you don't like that, try a less public forum.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

The reason John McMaster is "here, now, with us" is because he was a scientologist.
Who are you to play boss-man about what people should or shouldn't say about THEIR experiences, thoughts, attitudes, emotions about John McMaster or scientology things. You want everyone to line their thoughts up for inspection so that you can arrange that what they say will fit YOUR opinions. John ended up feeling fairly bitter about LRH didn't he? Try some loving yourself by letting people express THEIR views and not trying to reign them in. If you don't like that, try a less public forum.

Or as someone said " You ain't the boss of me ".

But, hey, self appointed board nannies are still dime a dozen... even here.

 

[Veda]

"He asked me if I would go promote the subject and I did. I didn't know at the time what he really intended to do with it.

"He got the technology to the point where he had a sort of assembly line as he called it. And he told me how he was putting all these 'square ball bearings' on the beginning of the assembly line, and then turning them into 'round ball bearings' at the other end. That was his idea of 'standard tech'."

'Messiah or Madman?' has been published in three English language and one Russian language edition over a span of almost twenty years. This is a crude 1998 scan of the rush-to-print 1st edition of 1987. Nonetheless, it contains the same material from the 1985 John McMaster interview as is contained in all the other editions. Chapters where excerpts from the McMaster interview can be found are, 'The Savior lives just down the road', 'Lord of the Manor', and 'The Sea Org Revisited'.

John McMaster spoke these words with the intention that they be published and read by others.

http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/mom/Messiah_or_Madman.txt

-snip-

Let's keep this thread about John McMaster and the impact and influence John has had on scientology and the world.

-snip-

Carmelo Orchards, who posted the links originally, and afaceinthecrowd, and others, disagree with your objection to my responding, in post 17, to a question about Hubbard's mental condition.

You are neither John McMaster's spokeman nor his censor.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

 

[Veda]

-snip-

John... made clear by his own express refusal to speak badly of Hubbard out of anger during his life.

-snip-

Perhaps not out of anger, but he certainly spoke badly of Hubbard, and he wanted that side of the story to be known also. To anyone curious, take the time to read the interview segments in the above mentioned chapters. This will provide a more balanced picture.

 

[Sharone Stainforth]

I was on the Apollo with El Ron…Jerry Armstrong was, too. There is stuff all over the Net from folks that were there besides Gerry and me that have told about it and Hisself as CommodeDoor.…Hana Whitfield, Laurel Sullivan, Sharone, Homer Schomer, Dart Smohen…to name a few.

Anyone is free to try and post a link to that stuff on Marty’s Blog…good luck getting it through Marty, The Censor. The folks at Marty’s Blog would have been even more aghast had Ortega interviewed and reported what some of us that were there have to say.

Like I said before, Marty never personally knew El Ron and there’s only a couple of folks that he has ever had post…or allowed to post…on his Blog that did. I’ve already made my comments on ESMB last year re: Sarge and my "Take" on the reason for his “Take” on El Ron.

Face

That's just the point, Tony Ortega would not post everything I had to say.

In fact, there are many that will not let me post everything I have to say. Why would that be?

Yes, quite a number of people have spoken out about the Commadore, but that still leaves about 230 that haven't, minus those who aren't dead.Are they all still at Flag?

 

[Smilla]

Nice to see you posting Sharone.

 

[Sharone Stainforth]

Thank You Smilla.

I haven't listened to all the John McMasters tapes yet.

He speaks in scientology language, which although I understand most of what he says, isn't my language.Nor will it ever be.

John McMasters was probably instrumental in my knowing that something was so desperately wrong. His words when he was injured after being thrown overboard resonated with me, confirmed my thoughts.Made me realize, you kept your thoughts to yourself or you would be punished, miserably.

You could have cut the air with a knife. Nobody said anything.But what were they thinking?

 

[Infinite]

Interesting perspectives on Form Vs Function - where the edifice we erect to service our needs becomes more important than our purpose. Scientology managed to layer any spiritual gains under a regime of invalidation, where honest observations were rewarded with Conditions. Tyranny, indeed.

As to the telepathic electronic brainwashing - surely, he must have been referring to the e-meter?

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

That's just the point, Tony Ortega would not post everything I had to say.

In fact, there are many that will not let me post everything I have to say. Why would that be?

Yes, quite a number of people have spoken out about the Commadore, but that still leaves about 230 that haven't, minus those who aren't dead.Are they all still at Flag?

Your story, to me, is more than compelling…your story is painfully honest, heart rending true and says more about El Ron than the millions of words that have been written about Hisself. I came to the Apollo after the unspeakable abuse of you as a child. But, I know of the places you were imprisoned and I knew your jailor.

Your words have been read, are being read and will be read. Your Voice is the Clarity of a Child that Unnerves and Chips Away at the Muddled Egoic Veneer of “Adults”.

May Peace be With You, Sharone.

Face

 

[Leon]

One of the most important points he stresses, one which I think has rather profound implications, is the importance of creating a safe space. Clearly, it is absolutely critical in a session situation. It is also equally critical outside of session. Not only is the pc entitled to his wins & insights, so are the students, the staff, the membership, and the general public.

And, contrary to the fixed beliefs of management, the establishment of the org is not the same thing as creating a safe space. The whole scheme of "ideal orgs" is doomed to failure for this reason alone.

In my view, all the abuses of lrh & the church can be subsumed under the heading of a failure to create a safe space.

Indeed, it is the primary dysfunction in human societies generally. They all too often substitute an orderly space for a safe space, and with the result that they create unsafe spaces for their human inhabitants as a result of seeking to implement order. In that light it is no wonder that there are so many occasions of reactive unrest in the world.


Mark A. Baker

Good one, Mark

You're right on the button here.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... As to the telepathic electronic brainwashing - surely, he must have been referring to the e-meter?

No, not at all. He addresses the point quite clearly.


Mark A. Baker

 

[loose cannon]

It occured to me that John's article "The Story of S & D" about how PTS tech came into being could be of interest too.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

It occured to me that John's article "The Story of S & D" about how PTS tech came into being could be of interest too.

Absolutely. Thanks for posting. Care to provide any of your own thoughts on that issue?


Mark A. Baker

 

[Peter Soderqvist]

In light of the fact that John McMaster was a very loving individual who sought to be forgiving towards others, and who believed in his heart that the greatest overt a person could commit was by allowing himself to be the brunt of another's overt, believing that by doing so he allowed the other to become degraded as a being.

John was clearly an individual who was concerned about creating a nurturing environment and safe space for others. He was not interested in seeking revenge, or the vilification of others, as made clear by his own express refusal to speak badly of Hubbard out of anger during his life.

Thus, seeing as the purpose of this thread is as memorial and living testament to John's memory ...

Let's keep this thread about John McMaster and the impact and influence John has had on scientology and the world.

There are many existing venues intended to draw public attention to the villainies of L. Ron Hubbard, V. Give this one thread a rest and confine you remarks to those which John would himself have enjoyed to see. Do it for John's sake.


Mark A. Baker

Soderqvist1: this is the Stockholmsyndrome the mentalities of wimps!
What kind of environment do a bully prefer, a place were dogs doesn’t bite back, or a place where dogs do bite back? A dog who bites back will make the offender think twice before he caries out his bad acts!

 

[UnifiedField]

Sorry to digress but how does one listen to the lectures? Nothing happens when I click on any of the links.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Sorry to digress but how does one listen to the lectures? Nothing happens when I click on any of the links.

What are you trying to access them with?

computer?

smartphone?

iPod?

tablet?

Windows? Apple?

OS?

browser? IE? Firefox? Safari? Chrome? other?

bandwidth? dial up? DSL? cable?