Hubbard as a pedophile?

[lotus]

2) The idea that Mary Sue considered their marriage over. She went to prison for him. She was still loyal. This story does not ring true.

What I understood with reading on the subject is that

She was thrown under the bus...she was handled and has no choice - a strategy organized by the pope and executed by Rathbun and Associates,
(reliable testimonies by parties involved with rathbun can be found)
:confused2:

 

[lotus]

Just posted on another thread by Karen and corroborating sexual abuses on the apollo
Incest here
and covered-up

Norman Starkey, Executor of L Ron Hubbard will.
Unstable drunk.

A less liked more obnoxious Sea Org member.
Mike Reppen posted today that Normal Starkey had sexually assaulted his 17 year
old sister on the Apollo. All covered up nicely.

The coerced cover-up and fair game threats, may explain the absence of any testimony, in the event, child molestation by LRH had happened.

 

[Leland]

I've mentioned this before. While in LA....around 1986 or so......one day, Steve Miller, the NoN-SO cramming officer ( in the Qual Division) at AOLA.....told me that some guy had molested his daughter. This was something that happened...and was real....and was known about at AOLA...and the grapevine around the ORG...was all about it.

I do not know if the guy was SO or Public.....I think he was Public.

I don't know what happened.....

The next day....things went on as "normal."

 

[WildKat]

I'm with you on that score. Elcon abused and terrorized his kids and the kids of his $cientologists but I've never heard of anything beyond that leading to pedophilia. As much as I absolutely thoroughly enjoy exposing Elcon for the lying vermin he was, I've never seen any dox on this subject.

IF it happened, the only "DOX" might be session write-ups of auditing sessions of the creep himself or the daughter (Diana?). The only other verification might be from any auditors/CSes that were involved. But as we all know any True Believer would be sure to destroy anything that makes the Hub look bad. Or take the secret to their grave. "Greatest good" and all.

I wouldn't put it past some techie person or CS to make a program for the victim to make sure they located any lifetimes where THEY were the abuser. Cuz everyone knows no one is really a victim unless they have "similar overts" of their own.

I bet a lot of actionable offenses have been swept under the carpet using such "logic".

 

[SPsince83]

IF it happened, the only "DOX" might be session write-ups of auditing sessions of the creep himself or the daughter (Diana?). The only other verification might be from any auditors/CSes that were involved. But as we all know any True Believer would be sure to destroy anything that makes the Hub look bad. Or take the secret to their grave. "Greatest good" and all.

I wouldn't put it past some techie person or CS to make a program for the victim to make sure they located any lifetimes where THEY were the abuser. Cuz everyone knows no one is really a victim unless they have "similar overts" of their own.

I bet a lot of actionable offenses have been swept under the carpet using such "logic".

That "you pulled it in" shit covered tracks for a lot of assholes.

 

[Free Being Me]

IF it happened, the only "DOX" might be session write-ups of auditing sessions of the creep himself or the daughter (Diana?). The only other verification might be from any auditors/CSes that were involved. But as we all know any True Believer would be sure to destroy anything that makes the Hub look bad. Or take the secret to their grave. "Greatest good" and all.

I wouldn't put it past some techie person or CS to make a program for the victim to make sure they located any lifetimes where THEY were the abuser. Cuz everyone knows no one is really a victim unless they have "similar overts" of their own.

I bet a lot of actionable offenses have been swept under the carpet using such "logic".

That's entirely possible given how $cientologists think.

 

[Panda Termint]

IF it happened, the only "DOX" might be session write-ups of auditing sessions of the creep himself or the daughter (Diana?). The only other verification might be from any auditors/CSes that were involved. But as we all know any True Believer would be sure to destroy anything that makes the Hub look bad....

Right but I doubt that this would have remained a secret for long. Scientologists, in the main, abhor this particular crime (just as any right-thinking person does). If there was anything to it, I'm pretty sure we would have heard/read about it by now.

Pedophilia is seldom a one-off occurrence, we've seen/read plenty of first hand witnesses to the real Hubbard speaking out. This would have been all over the net by now if it had any substance.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

[anonomog]

Right but I doubt that this would have remained a secret for long. Scientologists, in the main, abhor this particular crime (just as any right-thinking person does). If there was anything to it, I'm pretty sure we would have heard/read about it by now.

Pedophilia is seldom a one-off occurrence, we've seen/read plenty of first hand witnesses to the real Hubbard speaking out. This would have been all over the net by now if it had any substance.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

I agree with you. A paedophile would rarely strike once. But a man who simply loved the power of psychologically torturing and manipulating people would.
I don't think that Hubbard was a paedophile in the strict sense of the word. Enough time has gone by that the net would be full of first and second hand statements. Repeated sexual abuse would not stay hidden.

I do think he wouldn't let any opportunity, for him, go by, whatever that opportunity was. It is not a long-shot to think that he did have sex with underage children, or at the very least tried. Not because he couldn't help himself but because he could do it and get away with it.

What a damning testament to the man.

 

[Enthetan]

Just a quick question that will boggle your mind. 'Hopefully'.

Considering all we know about Laffy's misdeeds, did you ever wonder about the ones we don't know about?

I can guarantee you that he was smart enough to hide things from us.

One thing about Hubbard: he lived the latter part of his life in hiding and in fear of being arrested. It makes me wonder just how many things he was afraid would come out if he was in a position where he could no longer do bad things to people who displeased him.

 

[Leland]

I've mentioned this before. While in LA....around 1986 or so......one day, Steve Miller, the NoN-SO cramming officer ( in the Qual Division) at AOLA.....told me that some guy had molested his daughter. This was something that happened...and was real....and was known about at AOLA...and the grapevine around the ORG...was all about it.

I do not know if the guy was SO or Public.....I think he was Public.

I don't know what happened.....

The next day....things went on as "normal."

I'm posting this again....as an example of an ENTIRE org of SO Staff.....closing ranks...and sweeping a child molestation incident under the carpet.....

 

[West Grinsted]

At the 20:39 marker as mentioned in the OP, it is being said that an affidavit by "Andre Trevoygan"???? alleged that Hubbard raped a 12 year old boy in Morocco. And then goes on to say there were rumors LRH was having sex with one of his own children.

Anybody here know the correct name for the person making the Morocco allegation?

Maybe you are talking of Andre Tabayoyon, who served in Viet Nam and made a very well known affidavit. There could be stories of sexual abuse while old Hub was doing black magic with Parsons in Pasadena? or in the early days of Dianetics ?
Tabayoyon, Andre. 1994. 'Declaration of Andre Tabayoyon.' In Church of Scientology International v. Steven Fishman and Uwe Geertz. United States District Court, Central District of California. Case No. CV 91 6426 HLH (Tx), (4 April): 64 pp.
I never heard anything on abusing children sexually. There are a few Commodore Messengers still around who were young girls at the time like the Ghilam sisters, Sharon Stainforth, they reported the abusive use of "ethics" on the Apollo but nothing on the sexual side.

[SUP]
[/SUP]

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

The only thing I've ever come across is LRH Jr. (Ron DeWolf) claiming he would take anything to bed; little boys, old ladies.

I know some people don't believe anything 'Nibs' said, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Thanks Rmack, yup, stories I've read over the years on Hubbard's proclivities have run a pretty grim spectrum. From old accounts of stranglings, coat-hanger abortions, getting his rocks off by beating women into submission, problems with his balls hanging too low from masturbating, trying to cure himself from the dose, hey, he was a very kinky, drug-addled, sadistic fuck. Yes, I know its not a popular subject for many, well buried by cult, ignored by some, but holy-fucking-hell, he was a mess, unfortunately a mess with the gift-of-gab and the brain of a master criminal.
That the sorry old fart-bag was a first rate conniver/liar, hardly stands up to the over-all scam he came up with, the unbelievable amount of human wreckage his scam has left behind is far more relevant than any sort of 'of good' thing he gave the world. He gave the world nothing really, and damaged so, so many.

Gah, snipping rant nao
My semi-educated opinion and sticking to it.

Ogs

 

[Victoria]

As horrid as pedophillia is, I hold Hubbards long term abuse in every other area of people's lives to warrant just as much despise.
IF he never sexually molested a child, it was simply because he had no desire to do so.
Not out of any sense of right or wrong.

 

[Rmack]

There was apparently some incidents at Big Blue when I was there around '80 of reverse child molesting going on.

My wife told me that some S.O. guy was confronted in an elevator or something with a teenage girl who was eyeing his crotch and being suggestive somehow.

This guy flipped, and had her investigated, and supposedly uncovered a ring of these girls that were giving blow-jobs and what not in parking structure stairwells and such to Sea Org members. They were S.O. members kids with way too much time on their hands, apparently.

Damn, I missed out on all the good shit!

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

I have been searching around for more information on what I heard in a YouTube video with Jon Atack and Steve Hassan. Jon talks about Hubbard raping children but I can find nothing on the net about this. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Here is the video below. Jon talks about Hubbards pedophilia at 20:39. Truly disturbing.

https://youtu.be/VM_kWQAR0iY?t=20m39s

Jon makes a profound observation at 49:00 to the effect that society contributes to making people vulnerable to Scientology indoctrination because of the authoritarian educational system and other manipulations like workplace team building and language usage.

 

[FreeThePeople44]

I have listened to the jeff augustine podcasts and heard about the other disgusting kid rape stories from the sea org. It seems that perverts just can't help but hide behind religion to gain access to innocents youngsters.

Psychopaths like LRH and captain dave get off on hurting people. I know miscavige takes much pleasure in abusing staff. Makes met wonder what kind of sick shit he is doing in the bedroom. I picture him as a shorter version of King Geoffrey from Game of Thrones

 

[Northern Shewolf]

It depends on your definition of paedophile. Yes, he had young children as his servants denying them education, a family life, slave labour, mental and emotional abuse.

But, don't think there is any evidence that he sexually assaulted or sexually abused any children personally.

I personaly think that shoving a small boy (5 years old, wasn't it?) in a dank locked space in the ship's hold is total abuse and demonstrates a level of perversity that makes it easy to believe Hubby-tubby indulged all of his cravings....After all he espoused a fierce anti-homosexuality stance, and it is not difficult to belive he had his own child, the presumptive heir to the whole shebang murdered....Speculationon my part, but as John Atack has stated that Hubshit violated one of his sons without naming whom it was, he was showing the victims basic respect and discretion.
Power corrupts and the longer it is held, the more absolute its demands.

 

[Enthetan]

There was apparently some incidents at Big Blue when I was there around '80 of reverse child molesting going on.

My wife told me that some S.O. guy was confronted in an elevator or something with a teenage girl who was eyeing his crotch and being suggestive somehow.

This guy flipped, and had her investigated, and supposedly uncovered a ring of these girls that were giving blow-jobs and what not in parking structure stairwells and such to Sea Org members. They were S.O. members kids with way too much time on their hands, apparently.

Damn, I missed out on all the good shit!

Around the mid 80's, I was standing around and overhearing one girl (seemed about 13) telling her friend about getting $5 for having a guy "see her cup-cakes". I think she meant for me to overhear, looking for buyers.

Considering the poverty that SO and staff kids endured, it's not surprising to me that some would figure out ways to get extra cash.

Adding: one time when I was at Flag on service in the early 90's, sitting by myself in a waiting room, a SO girl approached me and just said "I'm 18". Just that, and waited for my response. I was at a loss for a reply, so she turned and left. The impression I got was that she was looking for an upstat guy to take her home and get her out of there.

 

[SPsince83]

Around the mid 80's, I was standing around and overhearing one girl (seemed about 13) telling her friend about getting $5 for having a guy "see her cup-cakes". I think she meant for me to overhear, looking for buyers.

Considering the poverty that SO and staff kids endured, it's not surprising to me that some would figure out ways to get extra cash.

A young daughter of a Delphi staff member left when her father went to AOLA and was gone for 2 or 3 years. Nice kid, pretty face, a bit pudgy. They came back to visit and OMG what a BABE she had grown into. She started telling me about life in LA and how she had had several offers to do porn. She considered it flattering. The girl was only 14 or 15.

 

[Gizmo]

Thanks Rmack, yup, stories I've read over the years on Hubbard's proclivities have run a pretty grim spectrum. From old accounts of stranglings, coat-hanger abortions, getting his rocks off by beating women into submission, problems with his balls hanging too low from masturbating, trying to cure himself from the dose, hey, he was a very kinky, drug-addled, sadistic fuck. Yes, I know its not a popular subject for many, well buried by cult, ignored by some, but holy-fucking-hell, he was a mess, unfortunately a mess with the gift-of-gab and the brain of a master criminal.
That the sorry old fart-bag was a first rate conniver/liar, hardly stands up to the over-all scam he came up with, the unbelievable amount of human wreckage his scam has left behind is far more relevant than any sort of 'of good' thing he gave the world. He gave the world nothing really, and damaged so, so many.

Gah, snipping rant nao
My semi-educated opinion and sticking to it.

Ogs

Yet, even as the cute nubile little girls paraded around him in boots, hot pants & halter tops serving his every whim we still have those are saying " Well, he never DID anything ".

Take any other older man, put those children around him & watch how fast his old ass gets in trouble with the law.