An email from Debbie Cook to active Scientologists

[BlackRob]

Debbie just accepted my friendship!

 

[Smilla]

Very well said. I think it is possible to hold these two viewpoints simultaneously.
Both are true and I am sure HH, like any one of us, would help any individual that needed it upon exiting.

For sure. I tend to think that the ones still in are particularly vulnerable in some way that is not immediately obvious, as well as just being 'a bit slow to realise the horror of their predicament.'

 

[Vittorio]

I have to agree with you here, HH.

Mostly.

I don’t have a lot of sympathy with the long-term public who keep on paying and paying for – well, god knows what. They have the opportunity to really find out the truth. If they wanted to. But most don’t – I expect the majority of the recipients of Debbie’s email will have just deleted it as soon as it started to look ‘critical’. Most of those left in the cult would rather be wrong but still wrapped up in the comforting cotton wool of their fantasy world than to be right and admit that they had been conned and wasted their lives.

Nor do I have a lot of sympathy for the ‘senior execs’ of the cult. Yes, they have been treated like scum and subjected to inhuman and degrading punishments, but as you said, if they really wanted to get out, they could. And, they have seen the abuses, the beatings, the shouting and screaming. They have seen the stats and yet they are totally unwilling to make the connection. The ‘SP’ is the one running the show and blaming everyone else! They know for certain that something is very wrong with the subject they claim to love more than anything – even life itself – and yet they do nothing.

These remember, are the (self-proclaimed) most able, ethical and in fact most muthaf*%king OT beings on this miserable rock called Earth. Pathetic.

And worst of all, when called upon to perform, they will happily stand in front of the ‘members’ (appropriate word in more than one way) and tell them how wonderful everything is. F*%king lying £%^ts.

But let’s not forget, we are the lucky ones. Most of those I have just mentioned will have their lives destroyed by the cult and will probably die still believing The Lie. I don't think anyone deserves that.

I will do my best to get the truth through and welcome them with open arms if they decide to save themselves.

Axiom142

I agree Axiom, and some of the long time public (and staff) are horrible enforcers. One East Grinsteader comes to mind. I mentioned on another page the IAS event back in 2005 where a lot of people walked out and ethics chits were written (at Saint Hill). Were you there?

 

[Terril park]

I agree and this is why I am having to ditch the Freezone with the Church. The moment I was on the receiving end of some very unpleasant business in the Freezone I was very shocked. I thought this was 'Scientology without the abuses'. When I reported it, it got completely ignored time and time again. I did let it go for a while, but things were never the same after that. If it hadn't happened I could still be in there now but I am glad that I am not. What I learned was, that some people have not left that 'mentality' in the Church and that injustice is not acknowledged or handled, especially when the person you complain about is a bigger personality. I didn't discuss what happened with other members of the group despite the horrendous effect on my health and wellbeing.
[snip]

.

You keep referring to this vaguely.

Can we have specifics?

 

[Emma]

You keep referring to this vaguely.

Can we have specifics?

Not in this thread. Any more derailments from you on this thread and you are outta here.

 

[Gadfly]

. . . . the teachings of alfred e neuman, mr natural, the fabulous furry freak brothers and the checkered demon

Well, at least we are in some agreement about at least a few things!

I was a raving underground comics fanatic in the early 1970s. By 1976, before I got into Scientology, I had over 150 FIRST EDITION copies of every Zap, Furry Freak Brothers, Dr. Atomic, Young Lust, Bijou Funnies, Junkwaffel (Vaughn Bode), Slow Death Funnies, Meef Comix, Skull Comics, Tales of the Leather Nun, and magazines featuring Snappy Sammy Smoot, Fat Freddy's Cat, Captain Piss Gums, and the infamous Binky Brown (Meets the Virgin Mary) - and much more.

Sadly I sold them all when moving around in the Sea Org.

I also had an AMAZING occult library that I sold when on an LOA from the Sea Org to pay off debts. Man, I had some true classics!

Ah, Mr. Birdsong, if you are familar with the the Checkered Demon of S. Clay Wilson, then you must also know of the fantastic and wonderful "Ruby the Dyke". Here's the demon in all his glory!

I was first turned onto Frank Frazetta's amazing work back then in Vampirella (Lord, could he draw the female anatomy):

Ah, the good 'ole days. Nothing like finishing off a nice Thai Stick or chunk of Black Nepalese Temple Ball Hash and setting down to a box of glazed donuts and a few of these great comix!!!!

Keep on Truckin' . . . . .

OK, enough of the derail. I figured I am at least slightly entitled since I have contributed some to this thread in an "on-topic" manner!

At least the post was germane to the Commander's post . . . . . :confused2:

 

[TheSneakster]

(The above is in anonomog's post #824 from from Mrinders post)

What is POB?

Pope-On-a-Box, because (a) he considers himself the Pope of Scientology and (b) he has to stand on an "apple box" to be seen behind a normal podium.

 

[lotus]

Since yesterday I was searching a quote of Karen about the money in a IAS bank account. I was pretty much certain she had mentionned 1,5 billion $ (debbie is talking about 1 billion$)

I would be curious to see the the figures are from wich time as there is half of a billion of difference. I wouldn't be surprise that the current figure would be more than this as some Idea Deal Org are sold

ref: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?25271-David-Miscavige-s-abuses-and-violence&p=636911&viewfull=1#post636911

One of the messages loud and clear in the Sea Organization in the near 2 decades I served is "There is no money $$$ for medical" ""No money in FP" (Financial planning) This means the County, the State, Uncle Sam tax dollars must pay for the Sea Org member's health issues. What a scam ! $1.5 billion in one account alone (IAS) but no money to pay for slaved Sea Org members ! ........

 

[Veda]

Pope-On-a-Box, because (a) he considers himself the Pope of Scientology and (b) he has to stand on an "apple box" to be seen behind a normal podium.

Just for the record, the first "Pope" of Scientology was John McMaster, "the world's first real Clear." McMaster was declared an SP by L. Ron Hubbard in 1969.

 

[Gadfly]

But let’s not forget, we are the lucky ones.

I don't agree really. I wasn't "lucky" - I was smart. I paid attention to what I observed. I LOOKED and I refused to listen to the endless bullshit and PR from the Church of Scientology. I paid attention, and I got to a point where I refused to participate any longer in the charade.

People have a CHOICE. Those who stay do so on their on free will. If you are stupid enough to stand in front of a moving train, don't get mad when you get crushed! :confused2:

I view people who stay involved with Scientology in exactly the same light. If you throw an apple up on the air, and it comes down and lands on your head, is it the apple's fault? Is it gravity's fault? No. It is YOUR fault! One has to be plain stupid to keep standing under the apple when it is falling back to the ground. In the same way, people who choose to stay involved with Scientology have decided to let the apple keep smashing them in the head. I have no sympathy for them.

Sure, "forgive them, for they know not what they do", BUT they do get exactly what they "deserve". They ARE responsible for their own condition, just as Hubby Dub taught them, but NOT in the way they imagine.

Of course, the children who were raised in the Sea Org had no choice, but even with them, many just up and leave. Both my kids were raised from birth in the Sea Org, and they BOTH left by age 21. They simply couldn't stand it and wouldn't tolerate it. Also, from what I have observed, the younger ones who were raised in the Sea Org often do NOT buy into all of the "significiance" of Hubbardia like many of the adults. They are there primarily because that is all they knew from a young age, but often, they are not gung-ho because they believe it all, but more because of peer pressure and social forces. They don't have as rigid "belief systems" or "fixed ideas" to tear through. Some do, but many don't.

Most of those I have just mentioned will have their lives destroyed by the cult and will probably die still believing The Lie. I don't think anyone deserves that.

Axiom142

Again, about the last line, a person who stands in front of a Mack Truck barreling down the highway DOES get what he has caused for him or herself. I am not talking about "blame" or whether he or she "deserves it". But really, whose "fault" is it if you stand out in the open when a tornado is coming straight at you? Get underground! Sure, nobody "desrves" to get torn apart by a tornado, but stupid gets what stupid does!

For the Scientologist or Sea Org member, just LEAVE! But if they choose to stay, they should be ready to reap the consequences. That is life. People make decisions and choices, and they reap the consequences, either good or bad. They get what they get. But they DO have a CHOICE!

 

[Div6]

Well, at least we are in some agreement about at least a few things!


<snip of awesome stuff>
I also had an AMAZING occult library that I sold when on an LOA from the Sea Org to pay off debts. Man, I had some true classics!

Perhaps on another thread, you can post some of the titles in your occult library?

Man, what is Debbie going to do for an encore?

 

[Lohan2008]

Debbie Cook

Debbie Cook post heading for 43,000 views....

 

[Gadfly]

Re: Debbie Cook

Debbie Cook post heading for 43,000 views....

:dancer: :dancer:

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

We really need an "LOL" button as a choice to click on at the end of posts in addition to the "Like", "Thank you" and "Dislike" buttons.

I'm getting a lot of LOL's from a lot of posts on this thread! Thank you all!

I don't know what "LOL" means but whenever I see it it makes me laugh out loud.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[BunnySkull]

Someone mentioned to me earlier an interesting fact. If Debbie was a "in good standing Scientologist" as was claimed before the customary OSA dead agenting began, as a good cult member she would have the right to demand a comm ev against David Miscavgie or herself - per LRH policy. So could have this been part of her plan or her rationale (however naive) to try so hard to remain in good standing? Just something I thought worth throwing out there.

 

[smartone]

18 members and 59 guests!! This is HOT!

 

[aurora]

Again, about the last line, a person who stands in front of a Mack Truck barreling down the highway DOES get what he has caused for him or herself. I am not talking about "blame" or whether he or she "deserves it". But really, whose "fault" is it if you stand out in the open when a tornado is coming straight at you? Get underground! Sure, nobody "desrves" to get torn apart by a tornado, but stupid gets what stupid does!

For the Scientologist or Sea Org member, just LEAVE! But if they choose to stay, they should be ready to reap the consequences. That is life. People make decisions and choices, and they reap the consequences, either good or bad. They get what they get. But they DO have a CHOICE!

That's true, but they're also hostages. Not only do they think that their eternity is at stake, they also have to deal with what economists call "sunk costs". Not everyone is good at quitting. Even outside the added $cientology brainwashing, most cultures also give social positive reinforcement/pats on the back for "hard work" and "tenacity". This "great" quality leaves people unable to give up or cut losses and it'll kill people who start business ventures or play the stock market... or throw thousands of dollars and hours at a cult.

 

[Lulu Belle]

Someone mentioned to me earlier an interesting fact. If Debbie was a "in good standing Scientologist" as was claimed before the customary OSA dead agenting began, as a good cult member she would have the right to demand a comm ev against David Miscavgie or herself - per LRH policy. So could have this been part of her plan or her rationale (however naive) to try so hard to remain in good standing? Just something I thought worth throwing out there.

It's really, really hard to imagine that she could possibly think she has a snowman's chance in hell of getting anywhere with something like that.

She was there, front and center, for years. She of all people should know the futility of trying to get any kind of a sane outcome to a justice action.

But I have to say that I can't understand where she thought this email was going to take her except a one way trip to the Planet SP.

Yet you do get the impression that she wants to, somehow, "be in good standing" with the church and with other Scientologists.

So who the hell knows what she thinks, believes, hopes. I for one can't figure it out.

 

[Lulu Belle]

That's true, but they're also hostages. Not only do they think that their eternity is at stake, they also have to deal with what economists call "sunk costs". Not everyone is good at quitting. Even outside the added $cientology brainwashing, most cultures also give social positive reinforcement/pats on the back for "hard work" and "tenacity". This "great" quality leaves people unable to give up or cut losses and it'll kill people who start business ventures or play the stock market... or throw thousands of dollars and hours at a cult.

oh boy ain't that the truth.

guilty as charged.

 

[Claire Swazey]

Again, about the last line, a person who stands in front of a Mack Truck barreling down the highway DOES get what he has caused for him or herself. I am not talking about "blame" or whether he or she "deserves it". But really, whose "fault" is it if you stand out in the open when a tornado is coming straight at you? Get underground! Sure, nobody "desrves" to get torn apart by a tornado, but stupid gets what stupid does!

For the Scientologist or Sea Org member, just LEAVE! But if they choose to stay, they should be ready to reap the consequences. That is life. People make decisions and choices, and they reap the consequences, either good or bad. They get what they get. But they DO have a CHOICE!

Ok, that's true in some circumstances. There are people who are physically prevented from leaving.

I agree about choices and all of that. But if someone runs into being physically prevented from leaving, that's pretty heavy. And, as Aurora mentions, there are other ways that people are stymied in attempts to leave. Some people stay in so they won't lose families. That's as effective as physically barring the door.

There are indeed people who could just leave and who should. But there are those for whom it's not so easy.

Love ya,

C