Aleister Crowley a Scientologist?

[Axiom142]

I was having a chat with the guys at work yesterday, and one of them said something that really made me think (BTW they don’t know that I used to be a Scientologist).

The conversation started off with doing weird stuff (as usual) and got onto Aleister Crowley and all the stuff that he got up to.

Then Andy said “Wasn’t he the original Scientologist? Anyway they are all a bit [two-tone whistle = ]”

This made me laugh, but when I thought about it, it didn’t seem so unlikely. When Hubbard was staying with Jack Parsons in 1946, he was reputedly involved with the Ordo Templi Orientis (OTO), which was of course lead by Crowley. Hubbard apparently participated in the Babalon Working with Parsons ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babalon_Working ), although this was later denied by him (he claimed to be working as an undercover agent for the American Government in order to neutralise a threat to national security).

Since this is from before the creation of Scientology, it would seem likely that Hubbard borrowed from the writings and ideas of Crowley. So, in a sense, Crowley could be considered the “original Scientologist”!

I always find it amusing when I hear the views of ordinary people regarding Scientology. Almost uniformly they think it is crazy, but of course DM and his cronies will tell a very different story. And the really sad thing is that the staff genuinely think that they do have good PR and not-is any criticism.

Also, what was a bit alarming, was the fact that I felt the urge to defend Scientology, only for a split second, before I realised that I didn’t have to do that anymore.

I don’t have to get embarrassed and defensive anymore when people ask me about Scientology.

Axiom142

 

[HappyGirl]

Totally relate to this experience, and the idea that Crowley was the first Scio sounds plausible (and horrifying) to me.

 

[Carnaubawax]

I was having a chat with the guys at work yesterday, and one of them said something that really made me think (BTW they don’t know that I used to be a Scientologist).

The conversation started off with doing weird stuff (as usual) and got onto Aleister Crowley and all the stuff that he got up to.

I don’t have to get embarrassed and defensive anymore when people ask me about Scientology.

Axiom142

At work? What place you work in? Sounds like some kind of thaumaturgical supplies company...

Can you get me a good price an alchemical vessels?

But seriously... Hubbard was a complete nobody when dangled beside Crowley. Crowley was every bit the ass that Hubbard was, but with a much sharper and deeper intellect.

Neither of them are invited to my party.

 

[Zinjifar]

I was having a chat with the guys at work yesterday, and one of them said something that really made me think (BTW they don’t know that I used to be a Scientologist).

The conversation started off with doing weird stuff (as usual) and got onto Aleister Crowley and all the stuff that he got up to.

Then Andy said “Wasn’t he the original Scientologist? Anyway they are all a bit [two-tone whistle = ]”

This made me laugh, but when I thought about it, it didn’t seem so unlikely. When Hubbard was staying with Jack Parsons in 1946, he was reputedly involved with the Ordo Templi Orientis (OTO), which was of course lead by Crowley. Hubbard apparently participated in the Babalon Working with Parsons ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babalon_Working ), although this was later denied by him (he claimed to be working as an undercover agent for the American Government in order to neutralise a threat to national security).

Since this is from before the creation of Scientology, it would seem likely that Hubbard borrowed from the writings and ideas of Crowley. So, in a sense, Crowley could be considered the “original Scientologist”!

I always find it amusing when I hear the views of ordinary people regarding Scientology. Almost uniformly they think it is crazy, but of course DM and his cronies will tell a very different story. And the really sad thing is that the staff genuinely think that they do have good PR and not-is any criticism.

Also, what was a bit alarming, was the fact that I felt the urge to defend Scientology, only for a split second, before I realised that I didn’t have to do that anymore.

I don’t have to get embarrassed and defensive anymore when people ask me about Scientology.

Axiom142

Crowley certainly wasn't a Scientologist. Nor was Elron a friend or disciple (directly) of Crowley.

Jack Parsons was a member of Crowley's OTO and being groomed (exploited) as the US West Coast franchise by Crowley and Ron fell in with Jack (and his women) but Crowley never met Ron; Ron was never an 'initiate' of the OTO and, when Crowley heard about what Jack and Ron were up to in summoning an 'elemental', he was less than thrilled.

I'd recommend 'Strange Angel', a Parsons bio highly.

Zinj

 

[Terril park]

I was having a chat with the guys at work yesterday, and one of them said something that really made me think (BTW they don’t know that I used to be a Scientologist).

The conversation started off with doing weird stuff (as usual) and got onto Aleister Crowley and all the stuff that he got up to.

Then Andy said “Wasn’t he the original Scientologist? Anyway they are all a bit [two-tone whistle = ]”

This made me laugh, but when I thought about it, it didn’t seem so unlikely. When Hubbard was staying with Jack Parsons in 1946, he was reputedly involved with the Ordo Templi Orientis (OTO), which was of course lead by Crowley. Hubbard apparently participated in the Babalon Working with Parsons ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babalon_Working ), although this was later denied by him (he claimed to be working as an undercover agent for the American Government in order to neutralise a threat to national security).

Since this is from before the creation of Scientology, it would seem likely that Hubbard borrowed from the writings and ideas of Crowley. So, in a sense, Crowley could be considered the “original Scientologist”!

I always find it amusing when I hear the views of ordinary people regarding Scientology. Almost uniformly they think it is crazy, but of course DM and his cronies will tell a very different story. And the really sad thing is that the staff genuinely think that they do have good PR and not-is any criticism.

Also, what was a bit alarming, was the fact that I felt the urge to defend Scientology, only for a split second, before I realised that I didn’t have to do that anymore.

I don’t have to get embarrassed and defensive anymore when people ask me about Scientology.

Axiom142

I'm not only happy to defend scientology but to promote it. Further I consider Crowley and his research part of what became scn.

See his Naples arangement and compare to factors. And search more widely.

http://lilytears.com/spirituality/thelema/qabalah/tarotandnaples.htm

Note that Hubbard recommended reading Crowley in the PDC lectures.

I liked Alan's comment that scientology was a splinter of Crowleyism.

The thing is SCN is in a very long tradition of knowledge. One that considers man is spiritual in nature.

That some weird dwarf, and assholes here wish to deny man's spirituality
is besides the point.

Fuck them and the poor horse who had to bear them.

 

[klidov]

Crowley certainly wasn't a Scientologist. Nor was Elron a friend or disciple (directly) of Crowley.

Jack Parsons was a member of Crowley's OTO and being groomed (exploited) as the US West Coast franchise by Crowley and Ron fell in with Jack (and his women) but Crowley never met Ron; Ron was never an 'initiate' of the OTO and, when Crowley heard about what Jack and Ron were up to in summoning an 'elemental', he was less than thrilled.

I'd recommend 'Strange Angel', a Parsons bio highly.

Zinj

^^^THIS!^^^

Crowley was not a satanist, and certainly not a Scientologist. He was an Occultist, and trained in Magick. Not to split hairs here, but there is a difference. In fact Crowley has been quoted as saying less than nice things about Elron, whom he considered a fool (and a liar).

Parson's friendship with Elron was rewarded by Elron stealing some of Parson's money, his lover, and his ship. Elron commited bigamy by marrying the lover he stole from Parsons.

The fact that Jack Parsons died in a lab explosion in his own home after winning a lawsuit against Elron, to recover some of what Elron stole, has lead to rumors that Elron himself may have had a bit to do with the "accidental" death of Parsons.

Pure speculation, but entirely believable.

 

[Zinjifar]

^^^THIS!^^^

Crowley was not a satanist, and certainly not a Scientologist. He was an Occultist, and trained in Magick. Not to split hairs here, but there is a difference. In fact Crowley has been quoted as saying less than nice things about Elron, whom he considered a fool (and a liar).

Parson's friendship with Elron was rewarded by Elron stealing some of Parson's money, his lover, and his ship. Elron commited bigamy by marrying the lover he stole from Parsons.

The fact that Jack Parsons died in a lab explosion in his own home after winning a lawsuit against Elron, to recover some of what Elron stole, has lead to rumors that Elron himself may have had a bit to do with the "accidental" death of Parsons.

Pure speculation, but entirely believable.

I kind of doubt it. At the time of Parson's death, Ron didn't have a pot to piss in; 'Dianetics' was only in the process of being cobbled together and Ron didn't manage to afford international thugs till much later.

On the other hand; it's a little unfair to castigate Ron for 'stealing jack's girl', since Jack was pretty liberal with his own bevy, including Sarah Northrup and her sister, who were both at one time involved with Parsons (not exclusively)

Everything seems to indicate that, while Parsons was irritated with having competing satyrs around, what *really* bugged him was Ron stealing his money and the boats that were supposed to be a business venture. And, even that can probably be attributed to the dismay felt by any intelligent person falling for a total con. The kind of feeling Ron was later to become famous for...

Zinj

 

[Carnaubawax]

I'm not only happy to defend scientology but to promote it. Further I consider Crowley and his research part of what became scn.

See his Naples arangement and compare to factors. And search more widely.

http://lilytears.com/spirituality/thelema/qabalah/tarotandnaples.htm

Note that Hubbard recommended reading Crowley in the PDC lectures.

I liked Alan's comment that scientology was a splinter of Crowleyism.

The thing is SCN is in a very long tradition of knowledge. One that considers man is spiritual in nature.

That some weird dwarf, and assholes here wish to deny man's spirituality
is besides the point.

Fuck them and the poor horse who had to bear them.

Deleted.

 

[alex]

I was having a chat with the guys at work yesterday, and one of them said something that really made me think (BTW they don’t know that I used to be a Scientologist).

The conversation started off with doing weird stuff (as usual) and got onto Aleister Crowley and all the stuff that he got up to.

Then Andy said “Wasn’t he the original Scientologist? Anyway they are all a bit [two-tone whistle = ]”

This made me laugh, but when I thought about it, it didn’t seem so unlikely. When Hubbard was staying with Jack Parsons in 1946, he was reputedly involved with the Ordo Templi Orientis (OTO), which was of course lead by Crowley. Hubbard apparently participated in the Babalon Working with Parsons ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babalon_Working ), although this was later denied by him (he claimed to be working as an undercover agent for the American Government in order to neutralise a threat to national security).

Since this is from before the creation of Scientology, it would seem likely that Hubbard borrowed from the writings and ideas of Crowley. So, in a sense, Crowley could be considered the “original Scientologist”!

I always find it amusing when I hear the views of ordinary people regarding Scientology. Almost uniformly they think it is crazy, but of course DM and his cronies will tell a very different story. And the really sad thing is that the staff genuinely think that they do have good PR and not-is any criticism.

Also, what was a bit alarming, was the fact that I felt the urge to defend Scientology, only for a split second, before I realised that I didn’t have to do that anymore.

I don’t have to get embarrassed and defensive anymore when people ask me about Scientology.

Axiom142

Crowley was a masterful writer.....poet....and what ever term would describe what would now be called a playful troll on the internet, except in words on paper, the internet of his day.

I think it is important to view his work in the context of his times, the late and post victorian era...He was rebeling from the closed thinking and entrenched mores of the time in a manner that was sure to antagonise the establishment, and draw to him those bright but outcast types who always seem to move society forward.

He is quoted as being dismissive of Hubbard, if I remember calling him a confidence trickster...

So in the lineage of scientology he certainly has his place, but certainly is not connected to it by other than inspiration.

 

[uniquemand]

yeah, if it's a vote, Crowley was no Scientologist (although there is no doubt that Hubbard plagiarized his idea of Thelema and "The Will" as his basis for "Intention is Cause", and the "Grades" as an approach toward "Enlightenment", which Hubbard called "OT"). Definitely, there are parallels, but Crowley and modern Thelemites would be ashamed of any perceived connection (and probably even apologetic.

 

[Lermanet_com]

Lawsuit paper from Parsons vs Hubbard

 

[Smitty]

comment to Terril Park

I'm not only happy to defend scientology but to promote it. Further I consider Crowley and his research part of what became scn.

Thanks for your candidness. Terril Park is a self-proclaimed defender and promoter of scientology.

The thing is SCN is in a very long tradition of knowledge. One that considers man is spiritual in nature.

That the subject acknowledges man's spiritual nature is part of the trap. A more accurate statement is that scientology is part of a very long tradition of entrapment and slavery.

That some weird dwarf, and assholes here wish to deny man's spirituality
is besides the point.

They are not denying it, they are exploiting it with a clever trap.

Fuck them and the poor horse who had to bear them.

They were born from humans just like you were.

 

[Veda]

Crowley wasn't a Satanist, but he did adopt the name 'Beast 666' as Jack Parsons adopted the name 'Belarion Antichirst', so it's a bit messy.

In the linked post below, only the bottom 5 links are relevant.

Includes excerpts from 'The Book of The Law', which Crowley claimed was dictated through him, and from the very different 'Introduction' to 'The Book of The Law', which as written by (not 'through') Crowley.

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=90903&postcount=52

Note - 'The Sole Source Myth' thread concentrates, mostly, on "positive" (benign) sources for Scientology, including the better aspects of Crowley and related subjects. The earlier sources for the "dark side" are explored elsewhere - well, at least that was the idea:

http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=510

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

I was having a chat with the guys at work yesterday, and one of them said something that really made me think (BTW they don’t know that I used to be a Scientologist).

The conversation started off with doing weird stuff (as usual) and got onto Aleister Crowley and all the stuff that he got up to.

Then Andy said “Wasn’t he the original Scientologist? Anyway they are all a bit [two-tone whistle = ]”

This made me laugh, but when I thought about it, it didn’t seem so unlikely. When Hubbard was staying with Jack Parsons in 1946, he was reputedly involved with the Ordo Templi Orientis (OTO), which was of course lead by Crowley. Hubbard apparently participated in the Babalon Working with Parsons ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babalon_Working ), although this was later denied by him (he claimed to be working as an undercover agent for the American Government in order to neutralise a threat to national security).

Since this is from before the creation of Scientology, it would seem likely that Hubbard borrowed from the writings and ideas of Crowley. So, in a sense, Crowley could be considered the “original Scientologist”!

I always find it amusing when I hear the views of ordinary people regarding Scientology. Almost uniformly they think it is crazy, but of course DM and his cronies will tell a very different story. And the really sad thing is that the staff genuinely think that they do have good PR and not-is any criticism.

Also, what was a bit alarming, was the fact that I felt the urge to defend Scientology, only for a split second, before I realised that I didn’t have to do that anymore.

I don’t have to get embarrassed and defensive anymore when people ask me about Scientology.

Axiom142

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/aqc/crowley.html

http://tim.maroney.org/CrowleyIntro/Texts/Freemasonry.html

LRH apparently hung out with Parsons, who either was a Freemason or hung out with people who had been, such as Crowley. You can read Crowley's history with the above links.

So, just like the United States - you can almost say that Scn was based on Freemason concepts, but with a bunch of other things thrown in.

We are a Freemason "governmentally based" country and this usually gets quite ignored. The below is where someone copied "volumes" onto the net which proudly display influencial and otherwise Freemasons.

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/10,000_famous_freemasons/Volume_1_A_to_D.htm

A much shorter and more up-to-date link is:

http://www.geocities.com/endtimedeception/famous.htm

I believe that LRH in a round about way, tried to "warn" us of the intent of the people in the "higher" club or Illuminati in speaking about World Bank, etc., but I don't remember exactly where I read that, it was so long ago.
If anyone here has the reference on that, that would be cool .

L

 

[Carnaubawax]

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/aqc/crowley.html

http://tim.maroney.org/CrowleyIntro/Texts/Freemasonry.html

LRH apparently hung out with Parsons, who either was a Freemason or hung out with people who had been, such as Crowley. You can read Crowley's history with the above links.

So, just like the United States - you can almost say that Scn was based on Freemason concepts, but with a bunch of other things thrown in.

We are a Freemason "governmentally based" country and this usually gets quite ignored. The below is where someone copied "volumes" onto the net which proudly display influencial and otherwise Freemasons.

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/10,000_famous_freemasons/Volume_1_A_to_D.htm

A much shorter and more up-to-date link is:

http://www.geocities.com/endtimedeception/famous.htm

I believe that LRH in a round about way, tried to "warn" us of the intent of the people in the "higher" club or Illuminati in speaking about World Bank, etc., but I don't remember exactly where I read that, it was so long ago.
If anyone here has the reference on that, that would be cool .

L

Freemason's are losers who can't make it in life by themselves.

 

[Axiom142]

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/aqc/crowley.html

http://tim.maroney.org/CrowleyIntro/Texts/Freemasonry.html

LRH apparently hung out with Parsons, who either was a Freemason or hung out with people who had been, such as Crowley. You can read Crowley's history with the above links.

So, just like the United States - you can almost say that Scn was based on Freemason concepts, but with a bunch of other things thrown in.

We are a Freemason "governmentally based" country and this usually gets quite ignored. The below is where someone copied "volumes" onto the net which proudly display influencial and otherwise Freemasons.

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/10,000_famous_freemasons/Volume_1_A_to_D.htm

A much shorter and more up-to-date link is:

http://www.geocities.com/endtimedeception/famous.htm

I believe that LRH in a round about way, tried to "warn" us of the intent of the people in the "higher" club or Illuminati in speaking about World Bank, etc., but I don't remember exactly where I read that, it was so long ago.
If anyone here has the reference on that, that would be cool .

L

From RJ67 ( https://secure.wikileaks.org/leak/scientology-rons-journal-wall-of-fire-transcript.pdf )

"The organization, under the direction of Mary Sue, employed - and actually had employed earlier than I returned from southern Africa - employed several professional intelligence agents who had long and successful professional backgrounds, and they looked into this matter for us, and the results of their activities - although still in progress - have told us all that we needed to know with regard to any enemy we had on this planet. Our enemies on this planet are less than twelve men. They are members of the Bank of England and other higher financial circles. They own and control newspaper chains, and they are, oddly enough, directors in all the mental health groups in the world which have sprung up. Now these chaps are very interesting fellows: They have fantastically corrupt backgrounds; illegitimate children; government graft; a very unsavory lot. And they apparently, sometime in the rather distant past, had determined on a course of action. Being in control of most of the gold supplies of the planet, they entered upon a program of bringing every government to bankruptcy and under their thumb, so that no government would be able to act politically without their permission."

Axiom142

 

[Smitty]

Comment to Axiom142

From RJ67 ( https://secure.wikileaks.org/leak/scientology-rons-journal-wall-of-fire-transcript.pdf )
"The organization, under the direction of Mary Sue, employed - and actually had employed earlier than I returned from southern Africa - employed several professional intelligence agents who had long and successful professional backgrounds, and they looked into this matter for us, and the results of their activities - although still in progress - have told us all that we needed to know with regard to any enemy we had on this planet.

Is he referring to investigators like Gene Ingram?

They have fantastically corrupt backgrounds; illegitimate children; government graft; a very unsavory lot. And they apparently, sometime in the rather distant past, had determined on a course of action.

I see some irony in Hubbard's accusations of "fantastically corrupt backgrounds, illegitimate children, and government graft.

 

[Axiom142]

Is he referring to investigators like Gene Ingram?

Probably a bit before Ingram’s time, but that sort of person I expect. Also, Hubbard seemed to be quite proud of his time in Naval Intelligence, so possibly also included some ex-colleagues?

In any case, we can see here, the origins of the Guardians Office and perhaps the beginnings of Hubbard’s paranoia, i.e. “They are all against us – the banks, the psychs, the governments, the media, the CIA, MI6 - everyone!”

I see some irony in Hubbard's accusations of "fantastically corrupt backgrounds, illegitimate children, and government graft.

Yes, that amused me as well.

Pot, kettle, anyone?

Axiom142

 

[klidov]

Freemason's are losers who can't make it in life by themselves.

Pardon my French.

Bullshit.

I come from a long line of Freemasons (Scottish Rite), and both my Mother & Grandmother were Daughters of the Eastern Star. (I, myself, was offered the opportunity to pledge for the same).

And both my Maternal Grandparents belonged to families that owned successful buisnesses.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

I think Ron copied some of his ideas and certainly his style from Crowley; for example, he numbered things from 0 upwards and capitalised sections for emphasis as Crowley did.

I find a lot to dislike about Crowley as a person but he was undoubtedly a brilliant man of considerable knowledge. His "Essays Towards Truth" and his astrological writings are worth reading. He's got some useful insights to offer in the latter, for example into why people become addicted to drugs.

Ouran's take on Crowley is interesting;

http://www.censorthis.com/ouran/GD18.html