Aliceinwonderland
Patron with Honors
From what I've read, so far, I've found that his association was mostly with Jack Parsons. Where did you read that he had never met Crowley at all?
L
Aleister Crowley a Scientologist?
- Thread starter Axiom142
- Start date
From what I've read, so far, I've found that his association was mostly with Jack Parsons. Where did you read that he had never met Crowley at all?
L
Carnaubawax
Patron Meritorious
It's there in black and white in chapter 2.
uniquemand
Unbeliever
Chapter 2 of what?
I read a biography on Crowley, which lead me to believe he was aware of Hubbard, and considered him a con artist and an idiot. I never saw it stated that he had never met him, but nor have I seen it that he hadn't.
I read a biography on Crowley, which lead me to believe he was aware of Hubbard, and considered him a con artist and an idiot. I never saw it stated that he had never met him, but nor have I seen it that he hadn't.
Carnaubawax
Patron Meritorious
Chapter 2 of Excalibur.
uniquemand
Unbeliever
I never saw a copy of Excalibur, didn't know such existed, I thought that was just a rumor of Ron's creation. Such a book exists?
Carnaubawax
Patron Meritorious
Yeah, it was just a rumor, but it's still there in chapter 2.
uniquemand
Unbeliever
Really? What's the ISBN of the book? Otherwise I'm forced to guess that this is your idea of humor.
Aliceinwonderland
Patron with Honors
uniquemand
Unbeliever
Ahh, Filbert. Forgettable.
Veda
Sponsor
Oy vey.
That's 'Excalibur Revisited' not 'Excalibur'.
http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=102258&postcount=113
http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=48413&postcount=4
Top link in post below is an excerpt from a letter, from Hubbard to first wife, Polly, written shortly after his writing of 'Excalibur':
http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=100417&postcount=47
Crowley died in 1947 in England, where he lived most of his life; he was only in the USA for a time around 1916 or so, Hubbard would have been five years old.
Last edited:
Hubbard first met and lived with Jack Parsons in 1945. Parsons wrote to Crowley in the same year, telling him of his new friend Ron.
"About three months ago I met Captain L. Ron Hubbard.... Although he has no formal training in Magick, he has an extraordinary amount of experience and understanding in the field. From some of his experiences I deduced that he is in direct touch with some higher intelligence, possibly his Guardian Angel. He describes his Angel as a beautiful winged woman with red hair whom he calls the Empress and who has guided him through his life and saved him many times. He is the most Thelemic person I have ever met and is in complete accord with our own principles."
When Parsons informed Crowley of his experiments involving Hubbard in 1946, Crowley wrote to a fellow OTOer "Apparently Parsons or Hubbard or somebody is producing a Moonchild. I get fairly frantic when I contemplate the idiocy of these louts."
There's some discrepancy in some of the dates for Ron meeting Parsons with some giving dates in spring 1945 and some in August, however, the Babalon Working project is pretty consistently given as late winter of 1946. Parsons letter to Crowley introducing 'Captain' Ron was from January 1946.
Ron absconded with Parsons money in May of 1946 and was later arrested in Florida. Crowley's comment; "From our brother's account he has given away both his girl and his money -- apparently it is an ordinary confidence trick."
Crowley died Dec. 1 1947.
So; when is it exactly that 'Captain' Ron met his 'good friend' Aleister Crowley?
Zinj
"About three months ago I met Captain L. Ron Hubbard.... Although he has no formal training in Magick, he has an extraordinary amount of experience and understanding in the field. From some of his experiences I deduced that he is in direct touch with some higher intelligence, possibly his Guardian Angel. He describes his Angel as a beautiful winged woman with red hair whom he calls the Empress and who has guided him through his life and saved him many times. He is the most Thelemic person I have ever met and is in complete accord with our own principles."
When Parsons informed Crowley of his experiments involving Hubbard in 1946, Crowley wrote to a fellow OTOer "Apparently Parsons or Hubbard or somebody is producing a Moonchild. I get fairly frantic when I contemplate the idiocy of these louts."
There's some discrepancy in some of the dates for Ron meeting Parsons with some giving dates in spring 1945 and some in August, however, the Babalon Working project is pretty consistently given as late winter of 1946. Parsons letter to Crowley introducing 'Captain' Ron was from January 1946.
Ron absconded with Parsons money in May of 1946 and was later arrested in Florida. Crowley's comment; "From our brother's account he has given away both his girl and his money -- apparently it is an ordinary confidence trick."
Crowley died Dec. 1 1947.
So; when is it exactly that 'Captain' Ron met his 'good friend' Aleister Crowley?
Zinj
Aliceinwonderland
Patron with Honors
If something pops up, I'll share it, but I also haven't found anything that says he actually "met" with Crowley. Of course its easy to say that someone is your friend after the person is dead.
However, the "original" point wasn't actually whether LRH and AC were "friends" - it was to point out the origins of some of the teachings of the OTO and that its possible that some of those teachings were included in LRH's teachings. So, not only is the government in the U.S. founded on Freemason ideals (or some of it is), but also Scn is founded somewhat on the same ideals or beliefs. But I'm not about to go through in detail to figure out what is what. I think someone has done some research on that though.
L
JustanotherEX
Patron with Honors
Having studied some portions of the occult as well as scientology...
I believe the OP has it backwards... scientology is a construct created as a result of Hubbard studying Crowleys "work" and applying it towards Hubbards own ends and benefits and virtually no one elses!
In other words, the COS is just an effect caused by Hubbard himself and has no cause of its own beyond its own primary drive to "survive".
I'm not saying that there is absolutely nothing valid in the "tech", but that anything of real significance was likely never placed there to begin with and will never really be found due to the stringently applied dogma that LRH IS SOURCE, the only source that ever was or will be, and that's the truth so help us Ron! It also serves as a trap for people who sincerely want to see a better world and removes them from the world in general.
There is just something so "wrong" in the equation. One can feel it deep down inside.
I believe the OP has it backwards... scientology is a construct created as a result of Hubbard studying Crowleys "work" and applying it towards Hubbards own ends and benefits and virtually no one elses!
In other words, the COS is just an effect caused by Hubbard himself and has no cause of its own beyond its own primary drive to "survive".
I'm not saying that there is absolutely nothing valid in the "tech", but that anything of real significance was likely never placed there to begin with and will never really be found due to the stringently applied dogma that LRH IS SOURCE, the only source that ever was or will be, and that's the truth so help us Ron! It also serves as a trap for people who sincerely want to see a better world and removes them from the world in general.
There is just something so "wrong" in the equation. One can feel it deep down inside.
Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
That's because CofS has been made to be (and set up by Hubbard to be) more important as an entity than those who are members. It's become a juggernaut, a theocracy, a cult, and more. The blatant disregard to which the cult pays to the stated purposes of auditing processes, courses, word clearing, and such is disgusting and also well documented.
It's not like some regular church where maybe their stance is "We want to help you find salvation, get to heaven, etc, but we'd also like you to help us spread the Good News but we'll also always be there for you." In CofS it's more like "We tell you that Scn can help you in your life but once you're really deep into it, everything's all for us and ALL your needs not only take a backseat to those of CofS but ultimately should be dismissed entirely. Oh, and one more thing- we can do whatever we want with you since it's all about us."
It's not like some regular church where maybe their stance is "We want to help you find salvation, get to heaven, etc, but we'd also like you to help us spread the Good News but we'll also always be there for you." In CofS it's more like "We tell you that Scn can help you in your life but once you're really deep into it, everything's all for us and ALL your needs not only take a backseat to those of CofS but ultimately should be dismissed entirely. Oh, and one more thing- we can do whatever we want with you since it's all about us."
JustanotherEX
Patron with Honors
*nods* Yes Fluffy, I know what the church says... Having been connected on and off with COS for about 20 years.
I wasn't very clear about that... sorry for leaving it out.
I'm not just showing up out of the blue. It took a while before I started to see a theme starting to show... The theme I percieve is just so dark beyond belief.
I wasn't very clear about that... sorry for leaving it out.
I'm not just showing up out of the blue. It took a while before I started to see a theme starting to show... The theme I percieve is just so dark beyond belief.
Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
It is indeed dark. That's why I do not believe CofS is salvageable.
