How many exes are there in Australia

[Petey C]

I've been wondering. Does any know, can anyone give an estimate of, how many ex-scientologists there are in Australia? They don't have to be vocal or anti. I'm not talking about people who bought a book, did a basic course and then fled, I'm talking about people who considered themselves scientologists (whether SO, staff or public) and then have cut their ties with organised scientology, maybe over the past 20-30 years.

Any ideas?

I know this is like counting water as it flows. But I'm hoping someone has been watching nevertheless.

 

[Kookaburra]

Good question, Petey. And yes, it is a bit like counting water as it flows.

To start, I think the T&P lists from the orgs would be a good start. Anyone on this board ever work in CF & Addresso? That would give you roughly how many there have been.

Then you would have to minus off current Scinos. You can get a rough idea of how many of those there are from event attendance. By far the biggest attendance I have seen recently was the LRH 100th Birthday. Estimates from the headcount were around 300. That would be all staff from all the orgs here plus most of the public.

 

[Free to shine]

Melbourne was once the biggest org on the planet I seem to remember. I would think there are thousands and thousands out there...certainly judging by attendance at recent events.

 

[Petey C]

Good question, Petey. And yes, it is a bit like counting water as it flows.

To start, I think the T&P lists from the orgs would be a good start. Anyone on this board ever work in CF & Addresso? That would give you roughly how many there have been.

Then you would have to minus off current Scinos. You can get a rough idea of how many of those there are from event attendance. By far the biggest attendance I have seen recently was the LRH 100th Birthday. Estimates from the headcount were around 300. That would be all staff from all the orgs here plus most of the public.

Good thinking. Does anyone have any recent T&P lists for ANZO?

The problem with CF lists is that there are hundreds if not thousands of false addresses, old addresses, and lists of people who once bought a book and will never do it again. I used to have to write countless letters to CF addresses while I was at Sydney and I doubt that much has changed.

Was the Birthday event you attended in Sydney? 300 seems a little small, not that I doubt your numbers. It just tells you scio's not as big as they would have you believe, in Australia.

 

[Petey C]

Melbourne was once the biggest org on the planet I seem to remember. I would think there are thousands and thousands out there...certainly judging by attendance at recent events.

Do you mean there would be thousands of scientologists in Melbourne or thousands of exes? I hope you're not telling me there are thousands of people who attend Melbourne events!

 

[Free to shine]

Do you mean there would be thousands of scientologists in Melbourne or thousands of exes? I hope you're not telling me there are thousands of people who attend Melbourne events!

Nah...thousands of exes!!

If all they could rustle up for the Ideal morgue opening was approx 800 Australia wide, and that was every man and his dog and stray public wandering by - there are MANY out there keeping quiet and waiting for the house of cards to fall.

What I would like to see is more people joining ESMB and connecting up.

So if you are an Aussie 'under the radar' reading this - put a toe in the water and say g'day.

ps I remember Panda, Feral and Carmel and Scooter talking about the hundreds they helped out...

 

[Panda Termint]

Yes, at the time that Feral and Carmel were conducting matters, aka: the great Exodus of 2008, I think that we had a confirmed figure of around 500 that left (or had distanced themselves from the CofS) in that short period of time. It's on one of the 2008/9 threads about ANZO.

Of course there are literally thousands of Exes in ANZO. If the CofS claims that it has 50,000 members here then, obviously, there are about 47,000 Exes. If they claim 250,000 then that makes it about 247,000 Exes. I'd guess that there are around 2,500 - 3,500 *active* scientologists. I may be being a little optimistic or pessimistic, depending on your viewpoint.

Around the year 2000 we used to target for 2,200 at major Events in Sydney and get about half that many actually attending. If they're down to 300 for a major Event, that tells you something right there.

It's a hell of a lot easier to count the still-active scientologists than the Exes but you have to be quick about it, the number of scientologists is apparently diminishing on a daily basis.

 

[GoNuclear]

I've been wondering. Does any know, can anyone give an estimate of, how many ex-scientologists there are in Australia? They don't have to be vocal or anti. I'm not talking about people who bought a book, did a basic course and then fled, I'm talking about people who considered themselves scientologists (whether SO, staff or public) and then have cut their ties with organised scientology, maybe over the past 20-30 years.

Any ideas?

I know this is like counting water as it flows. But I'm hoping someone has been watching nevertheless.

Easy. Just get a number of all the folks in central files that they send endless junk mail to and multiply by .98 and you will have a fairly good aproximation of how many ex Scientologists there are. The formula can be applied to any area.

Pete

 

[Cherished]

Not what you're after but:

Number of Australian scientologists according to Bob Adams

In December 2009, an ABC Radio program, AM, stated that there were "a quarter of a million" Australian scientologists, presumably a figure provided by Carmello's buddy.

AM corrected the entry as follows:

"*Editor's NoteDecember 23) These figures should have been attributed to the Church of Scientology which says it based the number on its mailing list. The 2006 census found the number of Australians identifying themselves as Scientologists to be 2,514."

Actual number self-identified in the Australian Census 2006:

Church of Scientology
Males..............1,519
Females.............994
Persons..........2,513

Next Australian Census - 2011.

So, the number you're after is somewhere between, let's say 1500 and 248,500.

 

[LongTimeGone]

Not what you're after but:

Number of Australian scientologists according to Bob Adams

In December 2009, an ABC Radio program, AM, stated that there were "a quarter of a million" Australian scientologists, presumably a figure provided by Carmello's buddy.

AM corrected the entry as follows:

"*Editor's NoteDecember 23) These figures should have been attributed to the Church of Scientology which says it based the number on its mailing list. The 2006 census found the number of Australians identifying themselves as Scientologists to be 2,514."

Actual number self-identified in the Australian Census 2006:

Church of Scientology
Males..............1,519
Females.............994
Persons..........2,513

Next Australian Census - 2011.

So, the number you're after is somewhere between, let's say 1500 and 248,500.

2500 sounds about right to me.

I would also suggest that there are a couple of hundred thousand Aussies who dabbled but who would be too embarrased to even say they were ex-Scientologists.

Since leaving the cult I have made it a point to tell everyone I befriend that I was involved with the cult. I prefer that people hear about the biggest mistake of my life from me and not from others with a possible ulterior motive.

I actually experienced a friend try to embarrass me in front of others by telling them that I had been in the cult; he shut up when everyone just said "we know that".

Membership of ESMB is most likely greater than cult membership in Australia.

LTG

 

[Kookaburra]

Good thinking. Does anyone have any recent T&P lists for ANZO?

The problem with CF lists is that there are hundreds if not thousands of false addresses, old addresses, and lists of people who once bought a book and will never do it again. I used to have to write countless letters to CF addresses while I was at Sydney and I doubt that much has changed.

Was the Birthday event you attended in Sydney? 300 seems a little small, not that I doubt your numbers. It just tells you scio's not as big as they would have you believe, in Australia.

You wouldn't use the CF list, you'd use the T & P list. Trained and Processed.

I didn't exactly attend the Birthday event 2011, I picketed outside. But it had a higher attendance than any event I've demonstrated at so far. The 300 is a generous estimate by the picketers. So I doubt there are more than 300 active Scilons in Sydney including staff and SO.

Yes, at the time that Feral and Carmel were conducting matters, aka: the great Exodus of 2008, I think that we had a confirmed figure of around 500 that left (or had distanced themselves from the CofS) in that short period of time. It's on one of the 2008/9 threads about ANZO.

Of course there are literally thousands of Exes in ANZO. If the CofS claims that it has 50,000 members here then, obviously, there are about 47,000 Exes. If they claim 250,000 then that makes it about 247,000 Exes. I'd guess that there are around 2,500 - 3,500 *active* scientologists. I may be being a little optimistic or pessimistic, depending on your viewpoint.

Around the year 2000 we used to target for 2,200 at major Events in Sydney and get about half that many actually attending. If they're down to 300 for a major Event, that tells you something right there.

It's a hell of a lot easier to count the still-active scientologists than the Exes but you have to be quick about it, the number of scientologists is apparently diminishing on a daily basis.

That sounds huge number! No way do they have that now!

The 2006 census figure of 2,513 is very telling. They have had huge losses since then. That next census is very soon and should be very interesting.

 

[Panda Termint]

You wouldn't use the CF list, you'd use the T & P list. Trained and Processed.

I didn't exactly attend the Birthday event 2011, I picketed outside. But it had a higher attendance than any event I've demonstrated at so far. The 300 is a generous estimate by the picketers. So I doubt there are more than 300 active Scilons in Sydney including staff and SO.



That sounds huge number! No way do they have that now!

The 2006 census figure of 2,513 is very telling. They have had huge losses since then. That next census is very soon and should be very interesting.

I think my number is pretty close, based on what I know.

The Census figure is only indicative of those willing to admit to being scientologists. LOL
(In my household there were two who didn't admit to that in the 2006 Census.)

Counting all Crew, Staff and active Public in Oz, I'm betting that it's around 2,500.

 

[Petey C]

Thanks to all who replied. I had a good giggle at some of the replies (especially Panda's "think of any number and subtract 3,000". I had the figure of 3,000 in my mind too, which must have come from the 06 census figures (thanks Cherished) -- it's a good place to start.

PD

 

[degraded being]

Does anyone know the SO /ORG staff numbers for all OZ?

 

[Free to shine]

I came across this link while doing research on the date of the Melbourne org burning down.

http://www.suburbia.com.au/~fun/scn/press/800716ag.htm

The Age (Melbourne), Wed 16 Jul 1980, p1, 4
A church returns and finds a home
By DAMIEN MURPHY
IVOR RIES

Like a phoenix from the ashes, the Church of Scientology is back in Victoria.

Fifteen years ago some Scientology practices were banned. The cult was called a serious threat to the community, medically, morally and socially.

But Scientology came back. As a cult it was outlawed, but it returned as a recognised denomination.

That was in 1972. Now the church is flourishing to the extent that it has bought an $800,000 city building for its Victorian headquarters.

The new home puts Scientology back in the religious mainstream.

Spokesman for the church, the Reverend Robert Allsop, said yesterday the new Russell Street headquarters was very much a phoenix from the ashes affair. The church's old headquarters in Caulfield was destroyed by fire last March.

The Russell Street building was financed by the Religious Research Foundation - an organisation set up in America by Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard to provide funds for new churches around the world.

Mr Allsop said the money for the Russell Street building was simply a loan which would be repaid by the Melbourne church.

The acquisition of the building was a far cry from the days when some cult practices were outlawed under the Victorian Psychological Practices Act in 1965 after a 159-day inquiry which cost $75,000 and condemned Scientology as an evil pseudo-science.

"Melbourne had one of the biggest churches of Scientology in the world before 1965," Mr Allsop said.

"There were maybe 8000 people. But one by one they left."

Dark days followed. Scientologists saw parallels with the early dark days of Christianity in the Roman Empire. But by 1968 Scientology was back on its feet in Victoria. Members met in suburban homes.

"The inquiry made people afraid to admit they were Scientologists," Mr Allsop said. "But soon they started to come out of the woodwork."

When the church "came into the open" about 1971 it had four members only on staff.

Mr Allsop said the membership had grown to 5000 plus this year. And more were coming. There are now about 100 on staff. "The future is all ours," he said.

Ahhh Bob, where are you now mate? You could not have forseen slavery at Int base as being the future you worked so hard for.

 

[Jachs]

Reverend Robert Allsop, would he be related to the Sydney Reverend Bill Allsop?

 

[Free to shine]

Reverend Robert Allsop, would he be related to the Sydney Reverend Bill Allsop?

I think that's his brother? Sydneyites would know.

Bob was married to Joy and they had a daughter Jane, but I haven't seen them since 1982.

 

[Jachs]

I think that's his brother? Sydneyites would know.

Bob was married to Joy and they had a daughter Jane, but I haven't seen them since 1982.

Thanks for the info Fts.

 

[Outethicsofficer]

Yes, at the time that Feral and Carmel were conducting matters, aka: the great Exodus of 2008, I think that we had a confirmed figure of around 500 that left (or had distanced themselves from the CofS) in that short period of time. It's on one of the 2008/9 threads about ANZO.

Of course there are literally thousands of Exes in ANZO. If the CofS claims that it has 50,000 members here then, obviously, there are about 47,000 Exes. If they claim 250,000 then that makes it about 247,000 Exes. I'd guess that there are around 2,500 - 3,500 *active* scientologists. I may be being a little optimistic or pessimistic, depending on your viewpoint.

Around the year 2000 we used to target for 2,200 at major Events in Sydney and get about half that many actually attending. If they're down to 300 for a major Event, that tells you something right there.

It's a hell of a lot easier to count the still-active scientologists than the Exes but you have to be quick about it, the number of scientologists is apparently diminishing on a daily basis.

Not a bad guess Panda, it will help to define an active scio, for example in ACT when I was on lines we losely considered an active scio as someone who at least could be counted on to turn up at an event without too much effort on our part, generally that was around 20 and with effort we could get say 40 people to attend.

So how many orgs are there around OZ 'bout the same size as ACT; Brisbane, Adelaide, three orgs 'bout that size so let us be generous and grant there might be 50 active scios around each, wow 300 people.

Now take Melbourne, Perth and Sydney and grant that there may be say 300 in Melbourne, 500 in Sydney that includes the AO and both SydF and SydD, and Perth 100 possibly.

So we are looking at around 1200 people.

Even if I am underestimating it by half we still come in at around 2400 approx.

James

 

[Petey C]

Thanks all you Aussies for replying with your estimates. I've had a few intense personal stuff to attend to for the last few days so have not been on the Board.

We're saying that there are about 2500 active scios in Oz at any given time, certainly at the last Census in 06. I don't know how to calculate exes from this figure except through Panda's equation (N minus 2500). The figure I had in mind when I started the post was about 3000 active (however you define that -- taking courses/having auditing/being ethicsed/buying books) which was pretty correct. The ex figure I had in mind, basically pulled out of the air but based on some kind of reality (eg number of people leaving over the four years I was pretty close to Sydney Day) was about 200,000 across Australia over say the last 20 years.

It doesn't matter whether they admit to being exes or not, or if they were only in for 10 minutes. What I'm aiming for is people who have done some form of course (higher than the comm course) or auditing and then left.

Does that figure strike you all as being realistic? It's just a stab, but an informed stab.

PD