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Jason Beghe's Hamburg's speech

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Wow! Great that's a great heartfelt talk from Jason. :clap:
Interesting data about the ratio of current SO members to EXSO. :omg:
Thanks for the link FTS. :)
 
A

Art

Guest
Thanks for posting FTS. Glad to see that he made the points that he did.

The guy seems like he needs his coffee, since he fails to differentiate between Scn the philosophy and Scn the CoS.
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
The guy seems like he needs his coffee, since he fails to differentiate between Scn the philosophy and Scn the CoS.

With all due respect, one could say the same about anybody who believes that the philosophy is workable science. JB has experienced it and obviously found it to be mostly unworkable. So did I. "Clear" and "OT" are integral to the philosophy- neither of which are sustainable, real states of being or mental condition. They are fraudulently offered in the "philosophy" as scientifically achievable. NOT. If people like to use and play with the techniques used in them, and experience "wins"... they're free to knock their socks off. That said, IMHO- any and all of it should be labeled with black box warnings. Hubbard was a sick man- anybody who would take his serum without having it properly researched and tested (wholly independent of the cos, scilons and their pocketbooks) are ignoring the obvious truth and testimonies.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Thanks, Free to shine, for posting these YouTube links. :)

As an ex-SCN, I understood everything that Jason had to say. This talk is a very important exposé on the Church of Scientology. :thumbsup:

However, I wonder how much of it was, or could be, understood by people who know little about Scientology.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Thanks, Free to shine, for posting these YouTube links. :)

As an ex-SCN, I understood everything that Jason had to say. This talk is a very important exposé on the Church of Scientology. :thumbsup:

However, I wonder how much of it was, or could be, understood by people who know little about Scientology.

Yes, that is a point, mentioned to me by someone watching who doesn't know the jargon. Jason does try to explain as he goes along though. It's pretty hard to condense so much into a speech.

Anyway, Jason rocks! :happydance: :clap:
 

Pitbull

Patron with Honors
I Beghe to differ.

Listening to this dude take makes me realize even more how difficult it is to even begin to explain what Scientology IS, so you can talk about how bad many elements are. His presentation isn't too bad. Does his voice always sound so gruff?

The average person would be put to sleep with the whole thing.
You almost have to be an expert in it to even understand how nasty
it is. Its just one new concept after another. Almost impossible to
get a nice clean overview of what its about. Its so complex, so convoluted,
so many elements and details. The organization, the "tech", the beliefs, The outragious Cost, The policies, Sea Org, Auditing, OTs, Celebrities, LRH himself, on and on and on.
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
JASON IS AWESOME!!!!!

I ASKED A NEIGHBOR (WHO HAS NO EDUCATION WITH SCI DOCTRINE) TO CHECK IT OUT AND SEE IF HE UNDERSTOOD IT.


HE GOT BACK AND SAID "YEAH WOW- THAT JASON GUY SHOULD GET AN AWARD FOR HIS HONESTY AND COURAGE" AND "I MADE A COPY TO SHOW TO SOME WORK BUDDIES". SO I ASKED... "NO PROBLEM UNDERSTANDING IT?" AND HE SAYS "I USED TO HAVE A PROBLEM UNDERSTANDING HOW ANYONE WOULD GET INVOLVED WITH THAT CULT"... "BUT THAT VIDEO MAKES IT CLEAR THAT THEY USE BRAINWASHING".

SO HEY JASON, EPIC WIN!! THANK YOU!!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

PS TO OSA-BOT PITBULL... GO BACK OVER IT AND CLEAR UP YOUR MU'S.:D
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
Jason makes very fair comments about both what type of people are in Scientology and how they think. Scary but very very accurate.
Thank you for posting these!:thumbsup:
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
<snip> The average person would be put to sleep with the whole (scientology) thing.
You almost have to be an expert in it to even understand how nasty it is. Its just one new concept after another. Almost impossible to get a nice clean overview of what its about. It's so complex, so convoluted, so many elements and details. The organization, the "tech", the beliefs, The outragious Cost, The policies, Sea Org, Auditing, OTs, Celebrities, LRH himself, on and on and on.
Truth there Pitbull!

I come to think about an old 'wog' perception of a certain kind of psychopath. That they are often both intelligent, very 'persuasive' and have incredibly complex and innovative 'explanations' for everything.. There was a movie about this: That one about Hannibal Lechter, 'Silence of the Lambs' - Contagious insanity...

Hubbard? - "All men shall be my slaves, and they shall not know why." (The admissions of LRH)

Heh.. Here's a 'session' with Hannibal to freak out by:
Have the Lambs stopped screaming?

:yes:
 

Neo

Silver Meritorious Patron
The guy seems like he needs his coffee, since he fails to differentiate between Scn the philosophy and Scn the CoS.

Non-sequitur as always Art.

I Beghe to differ.

Listening to this dude take makes me realize even more how difficult it is to even begin to explain what Scientology IS, so you can talk about how bad many elements are. His presentation isn't too bad. Does his voice always sound so gruff?

The average person would be put to sleep with the whole thing.
You almost have to be an expert in it to even understand how nasty
it is. Its just one new concept after another. Almost impossible to
get a nice clean overview of what its about. Its so complex, so convoluted,
so many elements and details. The organization, the "tech", the beliefs, The outragious Cost, The policies, Sea Org, Auditing, OTs, Celebrities, LRH himself, on and on and on.

You talk so much, but say so little. What exactly is your point? Apart from trying to disparage anyone who has or wants to make a positive difference.

Jason Beghe has courage. And integrity. As does everyone who doesn't let the Co$ dictate terms.

Neo
 
A

Art

Guest
Non-sequitur as always Art.

What's non-sequitur, in your opinion, please, and where else have I "always" been non-sequitur?

[In your reply to Pitbull you wrote] You talk so much, but say so little. What exactly is your point? Apart from trying to disparage anyone who has or wants to make a positive difference. //Neo

I take it only your view of positive is "the truth"? Geez ... why don't you stick to calling people names?

Just to make sure I make my points clear:

1) Scientology data is the first time ever we have had the truth about life - it includes many diverse elements drawn from Tao, Buddhism, Christianity, Socrates, Aristotle, DesCartes, Freud, Korzybski, and others, and for the first time defines and provides methods for unravelling the reactive mind.
2) properly used it is enormously beneficial
3) the CoS major crime - and it is a huge crime - is ignorance and misunderstanding of 90% of the data and tech, coupled with gross misrepresentation that the travesty of an organization understands and uses that data and tech
4) associating the CoS with an understanding of the philosophy and practice of Scn is what's illogical. Life isn't easy to understand in its entirety. To blame misunderstanding and misuse of data and tech on the data and tech is like blaming Earth for Mankind's destruction, or blaming algebra for the student's inability to understand it.

Best,
Art.
 
A

Art

Guest
With all due respect, one could say the same about anybody who believes that the philosophy is workable science. JB has experienced it and obviously found it to be mostly unworkable. So did I. "Clear" and "OT" are integral to the philosophy- neither of which are sustainable, real states of being or mental condition. They are fraudulently offered in the "philosophy" as scientifically achievable. NOT. If people like to use and play with the techniques used in them, and experience "wins"... they're free to knock their socks off. That said, IMHO- any and all of it should be labeled with black box warnings. Hubbard was a sick man- anybody who would take his serum without having it properly researched and tested (wholly independent of the cos, scilons and their pocketbooks) are ignoring the obvious truth and testimonies.

KnightVision,

Thanks for your clear logic and respect. May I ask what your experience with Scn was? I'm just curious. In my experience, Scn data and tech have been enormously beneficial to me as an individual. Whether that is sustainable is up to me and my conduct of my daily affairs. I have some ups and downs, but generally, it's a preponderance of ups. I've also helped some other people to clarify some issues in their lives. I've also seen others benefit, and as far as I can see, sustainably so. That said, I've also had a couple of instances of being messed up - not by the tech, but by a couple of people who violated clearly established principles of the tech (misused it, or in my case, simply did not use it all). I've also seen some people with what I consider to be some screwy conceptions of themselves. And the CoS has turned into a complete fiasco, and I would love to see that false monopoly entirely gone, with the FZ people and original Scn in its place.

I want to retain my freedom to get "wins", and freely and honorably associate with others who would like to try for wins, themselves. The bottom line is that anyone must understand the data and tech as their knowledge, or, short of that, follow the rules and use it correctly, until the individual comes to understand fully. The data and tech - the correct stuff - was too hard to come by to simply throw it out because the jerks at the CoS grossly misuse it.

Not to off-load my case here, but just for common-knowledge examples of changes in my life as a result of my study of Scn: in college I called myself an agnostic, and believed life ended in nothingness at death. My major ambitions were to party and get laid. I was a normal kid. Today, I believe in God, know I have lived many lifetimes, spend time making plans for my next life, and my major ambition is to understand more and more about how people relate to each other (really learn to audit, to really point someone to the source of their troubles, so they can fix that little aspect of their lives). I still haven't figured out how to get laid as much as I'd like - but I don't blame Hubbard or Scn for that - I blame Christianity and Islam. I'm a normal adult. I haven't always been necessarily a nice person - now I'm gradually committing to being useful to others, in their views of things.

Anyone is free to believe or see what they wish - but so am I - and another's beliefs won't stop me from acknowledging them, or from admiring their efforts to make a better and warmer life for themselves.

Best,
Art.
 

xseaorguk

Patron Meritorious
Jason Beghe in Hamburg

I was truly impressed with Jason's ability to simplify just a few points and sum up what upsets us ex-$cientologists.
I liked his comparison of 'waking up' from being in the Cult with waking up in the morning and said how he is only now just 'making the coffee', which describes very well what happens when you discover you have been deceived and conned for many years.
It takes a long time to stop thinking in a $cientology way.
I made my life hell for years after, never living up to the 'ethics' standards I set myself, never forgiving myself for maybe 'being off the road to spiritual freedom'.
The brainwashing I received in just 1 year of being in the Sea Org was enough to change my personality.
Only now, looking back, I can see how they took advantage of my young years and wanting to make the world a better place, the ideals a young person has etc.
We were always told 'it's 5 to 12', almost too late to save mankind.
Shut off from the outside world with no television, no newspapers cos thats just 'entheta'.
At the time Jane Kember had been extradited to the USA.
Also that subject was just 'entheta' when we asked about it.
Only recently I read on the internet it had to do with Operation Snowwhite.

Capt. Bill Robertson came on a mission while I was there in his SO uniform, his 'ethics presence' and loud american accent.
Everybody was shit scared of him.
It was known that he actually worked personally with LRH.
I found that very impressive.
David Mayo was at that time the senior CS worlwide.
Also highly respected.
Even Hubbard was still alive.
It all fits into place when looking back now.
Even the confessional 'sec checking' of:
"whats crimes have you committed on LRH?"
" What overts do you have on $cientology"

I was a very scared young man, but had realized it wasn't for me.
How come the couple that recruited me,
Rahmon + Janice Nassor (AOSHUK) blew after just a few months of me being there?
Many questions were unanswered in my head.
Many outpoints I had spotted.
I saw people recruited into the SO to become class 12, flag trained auditors.
They soon realized when 'in' that they had been conned and had to fight for what had been promised.
They ended up elsewhere of course.
I had read about DB's in $cientology (degraded beings), and often thought actualy while still there that many of the older staff members fitted into this catagory. They had been bullied and beaten for years, their dignity and self esteem battered.
Head often hung low, accepting orders without question.
The few in the higher positions, loud, abusive....in uniform of course.
Had I been just a few years older I would have told you where to stick your orders, your 'make in go right' in all situations.

I'm glad my young mind did recognize it was not healthy to be there.
One fine day I just took my bag, walked down the road into East Grinstead and hitchhiked my way to London, as I had no money in my pocket.
The Sec Checking was taking for ever and had no prospect of ending.
I remember sitting in that car and thinking..."I'm free"......
Kiss my ass $cientology!!
I will write my story some time on here.
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

3) the CoS major crime - and it is a huge crime - is ignorance and misunderstanding of 90% of the data and tech, coupled with gross misrepresentation that the travesty of an organization understands and uses that data and tech

-snip-

Old chap, you appear not to be aware of most of the Hubbard "data and tech," by which Scientology is operated.

Scientology is being applied by the "Church" of Scientology.

If it were to apply Scientology - the complete subject - more smoothly, more professionally, and more adeptly, Scientology would be even more devious, and more abusive.

Instead of remaining in denial about the full contents of the secretive subject of Scientology, why not take some time and start searching and reading?

Or would you rather "not know why"?
 
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