Jason Beghe's Hamburg's speech
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degraded being
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Yes that was an excellent speech. Completely understandable to non-scios.
It was not supposed to be everything there is to know about scientology.
It was some things about scio that goverments need to be aware of. It was one speech from one type of interested party where there were several other kinds of speakers including of course, lawyers. It was about the threat that scientology poses if not dealt with.
It was very powerful to see someone actually on screen saying things which I mostly see as printed material. The talking head was powerful, especially given the place and people present.
That video will no doubt be used internationally as an introduction to opinion leaders who need the information.
It was not supposed to be everything there is to know about scientology.
It was some things about scio that goverments need to be aware of. It was one speech from one type of interested party where there were several other kinds of speakers including of course, lawyers. It was about the threat that scientology poses if not dealt with.
It was very powerful to see someone actually on screen saying things which I mostly see as printed material. The talking head was powerful, especially given the place and people present.
That video will no doubt be used internationally as an introduction to opinion leaders who need the information.
A
Art
Guest
Very true.
Free to shine,
Thanks for posting the videos. Thank you as well for your multiple other posts and activities. The CoS has turned into a criminal organization (child labor, abuse, lawlessness, dirty tricks, harassment, corruption). This is indeed an important issue.
The truth of any matter will eventually surface, and win out, because (I believe) man is basically good.
Mr. Beghe, with all due respect I'm sure, is justifiably very angry. But he did make a major mistake in not differentiating between Scn the philosophy, data, and correct use, and the current CoS management's horrible misunderstanding and consequent misapplications and outright criminal abuses. Pitbull made an excellent point:
Not that I want to say I'm smarter than Mr. Beghe, but it took me all of four months to realize that the CoS was not a good place to hang around. And that was in the mid-'70's when things were not anywhere nearly as horrible as they are now. I left the CoS and went to the FZ the same year the FZ came into existence (it was known as "the field" back then). I do not even know if Mr. Beghe is aware that more than half the CoS - the smarter ones - have moved to the FZ, and that proper use of Scn is available in the FZ.
Mr. Beghe made some very necessary points, and IMO might have emphasized the CoS child abuse much more heavily. He did a good speech - it's his business, his art, to present a personable, attractive, appealing, popular, public image. That's his gift - to sell ice to an Eskimo. He made a mistake by not differentiating clearly between the philosophy of Scn and the management of the CoS. Most people are able to recognize the difference between a plough and the farmer who uses it. Mr. Beghe failed to do that with Scn, and that weakens his attack. For others to follow his lead, weakens the broad attack on the CoS.
So ... listen to the actor who took 14 years to "wake up" (his words), and spent (according to him) "a million dollars" in the CoS, or listen to someone like me who got out before Mr. Beghe even got in, and spent "merely" a few tens of thousands. (Oh, hey - I'm pissed too - a lot more pissed than Jason - but I don't trot out my case and superimpose it on the truth - the truth is mistakes were made on my case, by the CoS, and these can and are being be corrected in the FZ by people who know what they are doing - the truth is no L. Ron Hubbard or Jason Beghe or Meg Ryan (what a great-looking girl!) or President Bush or Islama Bin Laden is responsible for or at cause over my life and my universe - I am.)
Mr. Beghe himself said:
Maybe when he gets around to making coffee in another five to six months he'll become aware of the FZ and notice the difference between Scn correctly used to help people, and the CoS management's dreadfully incorrect use to swindle people. The biggest crime of the CoS is to take something great, monopolize it, and misuse it. It is impossible to monopolize the truth, no government should allow that, and the CoS should be broken up and turned to free enterprise in the hands of professionals - much like the private practices of MD's and psychologists - who can use it correctly. It should not be left as a useless monopoly in the hands of untrained amateurs directed by grossly abusive, swindling, "management".
Best,
Art.
A
Art
Guest
Hi, EastAnon,
Thanks for your reply - I'd be happy to take any example of a problem, even if general, as regards the 'tech'. Just a brief note to understand what you're referring to with a bit more specificity.
Best,
Art.
KnightVision
Gold Meritorious Patron
When a person makes irrational and illogical statements in justifying their beliefs... simple common sense deduction would strongly indicate that their belief system [was intended to and] has overtaken their critical thought process.
These are some examples of why I see Jason's speech as being incredibly important.
"Scientology is Dangerous"
"It's our own little slice of Hell"
[That the processes and study of LRH/SCN are dangerous and result in an unrelenting mind control, making it's adherents believe...] :
"With Certainty", "That LRH is ALWAYS RIGHT", "That LRH is [the only] SOURCE", "And since they are 'THE ONLY ONES who can save mankind"... "That it's justifiable to kill someone", "For the greatest good".
"THEY ARE HOMO NOVIS", [and above] "Homo Sapiens" [ie The Superior race"]
"In DISCONNECTION" [from loved ones], "By the thousands, Just like THAT.
"That it is the tacit responsibility of a Scientologist to LIE. He must never let others see that they are anything except Homo Novis, despite their ongoing personal difficulties.
He also states:
"Scientology costs a lot, A LOT", "IT'S A RIPOFF"
"Scientology's Leaders are aware that they ripping people off"
"Scientology [and] "LRH" [have since the beginning repackaged and resold processing and courses, stating] "Ah, now we've got it right", "It's been fixed", "We were wrong- ARBITRARIES ARE CANCELLED", [Etc.]. "The Church made $250,000,000 from [enforcing] arbitrary sec checks... and that's all they could say?"- "THAT'S CRIMINAL", "[BUT] the crowd rose to it's feet in thunderous applause, tears running down their face", ="THAT'S DANGEROUS", [That the processes and study of LRH/SCN result in an unrelenting mind control]. [So effective that most can't see what's happened to them].
"It took me 5-7 years and cost $600,000... $800,000 to wake up enough to get out".
"I wouldn't do any more auditing even 'IF THEY PAID ME $1,000 an hour to do it."
"Not even if LRH returned [from outer space]"
"The LRH/COS statistics have been crashing since 'The Golden Age of Tech'... 1996", "The public must never know this", "It means Management is Suppressive".
"5 out of 6" of LRH/COS's most dedicated members leave the Church, [historically]... "What does that tell you"? "Something is WRONG".
"And before they leave they are shuddered into silence, forced under duress of loss of friends and family- AND fear of reprisals; to engage in video tapped affidavits stating that if they ever speak critically of the Church, they will be liable to pay $50,000 per word."
"SCIENTOLOGY IS DANGEROUS"
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Veda
Sponsor
Well?
From some people who were there, with Hubbard, in 1967:
OT levels did not make OTs:
http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=80692&postcount=30
Hubbard's extensive drug use during "research":
http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=72944&postcount=3
http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=16183&postcount=58
Any comments?
An examination of the subject (the doctrine) of Scientology, publicized and confidential:
http://www.xenu-directory.org/critics/ambry1.html
A
Art
Guest
What are your visions for mankind? What philosophy do you offer? What is the truth of life? Tell me.
Really, I don't mean to be rude, but I offered a discussion of the tech of an acknowledgement and no one replied. All I got was more challenges and make-wrong.
From my university studies in philosophy, from classical Greek to modern nihilism of dialectic materialism, I know it is literally impossible to "prove" anything to a man who refuses to look. Scientology has the goal of getting you to look. The 1964 version of Scientology 0-8: The Book of Basics has a dust jacket with these words by L. Ron Hubbard on it:
The most recent version of the same book does not have those words on the dust jacket, nor are they, that I have seen, anywhere inside the book.
Have any of you wise men ever read that before? And I repeat my original questions - What are your visions for mankind? What philosophy do you offer? What is the truth of life? Tell me.
Best,
Art
Really, I don't mean to be rude, but I offered a discussion of the tech of an acknowledgement and no one replied. All I got was more challenges and make-wrong.
From my university studies in philosophy, from classical Greek to modern nihilism of dialectic materialism, I know it is literally impossible to "prove" anything to a man who refuses to look. Scientology has the goal of getting you to look. The 1964 version of Scientology 0-8: The Book of Basics has a dust jacket with these words by L. Ron Hubbard on it:
The most recent version of the same book does not have those words on the dust jacket, nor are they, that I have seen, anywhere inside the book.
Have any of you wise men ever read that before? And I repeat my original questions - What are your visions for mankind? What philosophy do you offer? What is the truth of life? Tell me.
Best,
Art
It's not 'Scientology Or Something Else'. I'm not in the business of deciding what 'philosophy' other people pursue.
If (soon) the Scientology Organization is disbanded; it's leaders incarcerated; its assets siezed; its records and internal documents published, I will see that as yet another small step towards 'good' for Mankind.
Clear your own fucking planet; this one is mine.
Zinj
If (soon) the Scientology Organization is disbanded; it's leaders incarcerated; its assets siezed; its records and internal documents published, I will see that as yet another small step towards 'good' for Mankind.
Clear your own fucking planet; this one is mine.
Zinj
KnightVision
Gold Meritorious Patron
Art,
"The simplicity of observation, the simplicity of communication itself, is functional and will take man from the bottom to the top. And the only thing I am trying to teach you is to look."
Have a Look. Then Communicate.
"The simplicity of observation, the simplicity of communication itself, is functional and will take man from the bottom to the top. And the only thing I am trying to teach you is to look."
Have a Look. Then Communicate.
A
Art
Guest
Ignored again.
There's ARS for you guys. You don't give a damn about truth. Your game is just to beat up on somebody. Did you steal the computer you're using, or is it your Mommie's?
Drop dead and own death.
Free to shine
Shiny & Free
Art, go and start a thread in the FZ section about why scientology outside the "church" is different to within it, and stop hijacking this thread please.
KnightVision
Gold Meritorious Patron
Well... 'least it's the first time he really LOOKED and Communicated 
nozeno
Gold Meritorious Patron
He sounds like Pierre
Zinj
Pierre? Isn't he the portly dude who allegedly "fixed" Jason's L's?
I guess it didn't work?
Neo
Silver Meritorious Patron
And this is one reason why I know Scientology does NOT work.
Make wrong. Invalidation. Extreme sensitivity. Hatred. Anger, etc
All you have offered on this thread as an example of workable tech is acknowledgment. I learnt this before scientology. Life taught me. Life is senior to scientology. I almost lost this ability through scientology tech.
You like to distance yourself and the tech from the Co$, yet the Co$ is the direct result of the tech in action. They cannot be separated.
Now, if I remember correctly this thread was actually about Jason Beghe and his speech about Scientology. I for one applaud Jason, and his courage. I would hazard a guess that it was Life that taught Jason to have courage, as it would have been counter productive of scientology and its tech to do so, given his current stance.
Neo
Iknowtoomuch
Gold Meritorious Patron
Hey, if the GOT really worked, why didn't it work on Jason? 
Tim Skog
Silver Meritorious Patron
HOORAY FOR JASON BEGHE and the others who testified at the Hamburg Conference. If this leads to Scientology being regulated as a business and denied religious status that would be a huge victory.
The fact that the cult got tax exempt status here still makes my blood boil. And with the cult going on trial in France for medical fraud could make for some very interesting times.
As for the tech itself, there is no such thing as technology. It is a faith based system. The "workability of the tech" is not verifiable. All wins are personal anecdotes. Anyone who has been in the cult has had them. But there is nothing on the bridge to bankruptcy that is sustainable or verifiable by any Scientific stretch of the imagination.
LRH wanted to have it both ways: "it's a science of the mind and a religion in the truest sense of the word."
And the cult wants it that way as well. And it wants to be the ONLY religion in the US that is free to run secular for profit organizations, i.e., WISE, Applied Scholastics, NARCONON with the benefit of tax exemption for them.
I hope to hell that the IRS decision to grant tax exemption gets re-examined and ultimately reversed.
Scientology tech and the Organization are both evil creations of the same megalomaniac.
The FZ does not validate or prove anything about the workability of the "tech" other than there is a group out there still believing in "the tech" though the church is evil. I'd be curious if they believe in the OT levels and their so called results.
'Oh, Ron went of the lines in 1971 and that's when the church turned evil.' Ron was still on the lines. He was micro-managing the GO and MSH and operation snowwhite. He knew what the hell was going on with the management of his cult via the SO and the GO.
Ron was one hell of a huckster who created his "Science of the Mind" and later his "Applied Religious Philosophy."
If the FZ wants to still believe fine. You can be a Catholic or a Baptist or Hindu or whatever. But you are still working with a faith based system that requires belief in the "Word OF RON." It ain't no technology.
And Again Kudos to Jason and the others. And with the negative attention that Anonymous is bringing to the cult we might just see the end of the disconnection, RPF, and bankruptcy for its followers in our lifetime.
Don't forget, LRH died with a psych drug in his system. Read the coroner's report if you haven't already. Read Russell Millers's book Messiah or Madman. Read Vaughn Young's blogs.
The fact that the cult got tax exempt status here still makes my blood boil. And with the cult going on trial in France for medical fraud could make for some very interesting times.
As for the tech itself, there is no such thing as technology. It is a faith based system. The "workability of the tech" is not verifiable. All wins are personal anecdotes. Anyone who has been in the cult has had them. But there is nothing on the bridge to bankruptcy that is sustainable or verifiable by any Scientific stretch of the imagination.
LRH wanted to have it both ways: "it's a science of the mind and a religion in the truest sense of the word."
And the cult wants it that way as well. And it wants to be the ONLY religion in the US that is free to run secular for profit organizations, i.e., WISE, Applied Scholastics, NARCONON with the benefit of tax exemption for them.
I hope to hell that the IRS decision to grant tax exemption gets re-examined and ultimately reversed.
Scientology tech and the Organization are both evil creations of the same megalomaniac.
The FZ does not validate or prove anything about the workability of the "tech" other than there is a group out there still believing in "the tech" though the church is evil. I'd be curious if they believe in the OT levels and their so called results.
'Oh, Ron went of the lines in 1971 and that's when the church turned evil.' Ron was still on the lines. He was micro-managing the GO and MSH and operation snowwhite. He knew what the hell was going on with the management of his cult via the SO and the GO.
Ron was one hell of a huckster who created his "Science of the Mind" and later his "Applied Religious Philosophy."
If the FZ wants to still believe fine. You can be a Catholic or a Baptist or Hindu or whatever. But you are still working with a faith based system that requires belief in the "Word OF RON." It ain't no technology.
And Again Kudos to Jason and the others. And with the negative attention that Anonymous is bringing to the cult we might just see the end of the disconnection, RPF, and bankruptcy for its followers in our lifetime.
Don't forget, LRH died with a psych drug in his system. Read the coroner's report if you haven't already. Read Russell Millers's book Messiah or Madman. Read Vaughn Young's blogs.
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